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Level 61 Warrior wanting to tank.Follow
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,150 posts
So, ummm... I decided to try the new LFG/Random Dungeon to level from 61-80, rather than questing/grinding like I did 1-61. For shorter queue times, I switched to a tank spec I found on WoWhead. I am wondering about my gear, though.
Here is my armory link:
Kamora Starwind
Constructive criticism and advice/input welcomed. Plz?
You seem to have about the right stat priorities (stamina, strength, defense as your foremost stats). The biggest problem I see is that a lot of your gear is outdated. I'd recommend running through some of the HFP quests, and picking up as much tanky / plate gear as you can. You have a bunch of upgrades from easy quests, and it'll help a lot to get over the gear curve for tanking. As you stand now, you could probably tank Ramparts with a good healer and competent CC, but you'd be a lot easier to keep up with some extra health and armor.
Instancing isn't the fastest way to level (though the new LFG system helps), but if you can get started on it, you will ~always have a nice set of blue gear that's current for your level.
As an aside, always try to make sure you have the full set of instance quests before you go in. The extra blue rewards and the experience totally make it worth the effort to pick them up.
Instancing isn't the fastest way to level (though the new LFG system helps), but if you can get started on it, you will ~always have a nice set of blue gear that's current for your level.
As an aside, always try to make sure you have the full set of instance quests before you go in. The extra blue rewards and the experience totally make it worth the effort to pick them up.
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,150 posts
Cool, cool. So, basically, gear up. Do you think some Scholo/Strat/Blackrock runs would be good, too? Or just go with the HFP quests?
Outland gear will be far better than Strat/Scholo gear.
Just to expand a little on what Majivo said. TBC was a big gear reset for the game. You won't find anything better than the greens from HFP unless you're doing the later raids in vanilla (purples from Blackwing Lair are about on par with Outland greens). There's a much smaller gap between Outlands and Northrend gear, which IMO is a good thing.
Doing some of the later old world instances (Strat/Scholo/LBRS/UBRS) can be great from a learning perspective, as there are a lot of good and challenging sections to them. And they're fun with a good group (especially with friends). Just be warned they can take a while, and don't expect to get any gear comparable to what you'll find in Outlands.
EDIT: Excessive use of "IMO."
Edited, Jan 9th 2010 8:55pm by tabstopper
Doing some of the later old world instances (Strat/Scholo/LBRS/UBRS) can be great from a learning perspective, as there are a lot of good and challenging sections to them. And they're fun with a good group (especially with friends). Just be warned they can take a while, and don't expect to get any gear comparable to what you'll find in Outlands.
EDIT: Excessive use of "IMO."
Edited, Jan 9th 2010 8:55pm by tabstopper
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,150 posts
Ah. Ok. So outland quests for gear but maybe Strat/Scholo/LBRS/UBRS for tanking experience, then. (Wait, is UBRS a 5-man now?)
UBRS is a 10 man, but it's introductory level and you can technically run it with 1-10 people. When my guild was leveling, we ran it as an 8-man with two tanks and one dedicated healer at ~level 61. Was a little tight on Drak though.
Anyway, it's definitely not a 5-man, but if you're going back to run old-world for the experience, nothing precludes you from cutting your teeth on an 'easy' 10 man if you can find willing members.
Anyway, it's definitely not a 5-man, but if you're going back to run old-world for the experience, nothing precludes you from cutting your teeth on an 'easy' 10 man if you can find willing members.
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,150 posts
Well I decided to try the Random LFG tool anyhoo. As expected, I got Ramps. I did alright, though. 2 deaths (a DPS died when he pulled aggro [which he admitted was his fault] and the healer died when I got feared and lost aggro) and 1 complete wipe (partly my fault - I stood in the fire on the last boss [one of the DPS also stood in the fire]) but that's not bad for my first time tanking. Also, I am doing some of the HFP quests and getting some good gear that way too. Thanks for all the tips guys.
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,150 posts
So... um. Looking for more advice. I seem to be able to hold single-target threat well, but I am having trouble with groups.
My Armory again:
Kamora Starwind
Basically I will charge to start, then I will mostly Devastate, Revenge when it is up, and do the occasional Shield Bash. Every now and then, I may throw in a Shockwave on groups.
Where is the problem and how can I fix it? Is it my talents? Gear? Rotation? I don't seem to be able to find many abilities that affect multiple targets (shockwave, thunderclap, and cleave is about it).
My Armory again:
Kamora Starwind
Basically I will charge to start, then I will mostly Devastate, Revenge when it is up, and do the occasional Shield Bash. Every now and then, I may throw in a Shockwave on groups.
Where is the problem and how can I fix it? Is it my talents? Gear? Rotation? I don't seem to be able to find many abilities that affect multiple targets (shockwave, thunderclap, and cleave is about it).
I have a warrior tank who is my alt, so I will try to give you some advice, but I'm not an expert since he isn't my main.
In regards to pulling mobs, I'd suggest moving Thunderclap and Shockwave up in your rotation when pulling groups to grab some initial aggro on all the mobs. Additionally, one change I made that gave me much better control was to bind both Heroic Strike and Cleave to my mousewheel. I scroll down to Cleave and scroll up to Heroic Strike. It saves me time not having to press an extra key, and allows me to ensure I am using Cleave on groups and Heroic Strike to rage dump, etc. Shield Slam is excellent - always use it when it is off cooldown. Shield Bash I would only use to interrupt a spellcaster.
As for talent build, yours looks pretty good. The only suggestion I'd make is to perhaps replace your Glyph of Devastate with Glyph of Blocking.
As for your gear, I noticed that you don't have a single piece with defense rating on it. You also have zero hit rating, which you'll want to improve. Here's some suggestions:
Quest in Zangarmarsh:
At your level you can easily quest in this area and net yourself:
Head - Circle's Stalwart Helmet This is nice because of the three sockets, and is from this easy quest.
Waist - Fealess Girdle This belt has defense rating and two sockets, obtained from another easy quest.
While in Zangarmarsh, if you get enough rep with Sporeggar you can purchase this shield.
Instances in Zangarmarsh:
Chest - Unscarred Breastplate from Slave Pens or wait until you are 64 and run Auchenai Crypts for this quest to obtain The Exarch's Protector.
Shoulders - Pauldrons of Brute Force from The Underbog.
Legs - Greaves of the Iron Guardian, also drops from The Underbog.
Back - Bogstrok Scale Cloak from Slave Pens or Cloak of Enduring Swiftness from The Underbog.
Other:
Finger - Blessed Signet Ring would be a big upgrade from your rings and can be obtained through this quest in Terokkar Forest (it says level 64 in Alla to attain, but Wowhead says you can do the quest at 63). Also, Nexus-Stalker's Band is a nice upgrade from a quest in Nagrand.
Weapon - You're a couple levels away from some nice upgrades, but if you see Axe of the Legion on the AH (or are very lucky to have it drop) then you might consider picking it up.
Trinket - Run through this quest in Hellfire Peninsula to obtain this trinket.
Anyways, guess I could go on and on. Just research some gear upgrades, work on your rotation a bit, and keep running dungeons and I'm sure you'll do great.
Edited, Jan 20th 2010 10:29am by CountFenris
In regards to pulling mobs, I'd suggest moving Thunderclap and Shockwave up in your rotation when pulling groups to grab some initial aggro on all the mobs. Additionally, one change I made that gave me much better control was to bind both Heroic Strike and Cleave to my mousewheel. I scroll down to Cleave and scroll up to Heroic Strike. It saves me time not having to press an extra key, and allows me to ensure I am using Cleave on groups and Heroic Strike to rage dump, etc. Shield Slam is excellent - always use it when it is off cooldown. Shield Bash I would only use to interrupt a spellcaster.
As for talent build, yours looks pretty good. The only suggestion I'd make is to perhaps replace your Glyph of Devastate with Glyph of Blocking.
As for your gear, I noticed that you don't have a single piece with defense rating on it. You also have zero hit rating, which you'll want to improve. Here's some suggestions:
Quest in Zangarmarsh:
At your level you can easily quest in this area and net yourself:
Head - Circle's Stalwart Helmet This is nice because of the three sockets, and is from this easy quest.
Waist - Fealess Girdle This belt has defense rating and two sockets, obtained from another easy quest.
While in Zangarmarsh, if you get enough rep with Sporeggar you can purchase this shield.
Instances in Zangarmarsh:
Chest - Unscarred Breastplate from Slave Pens or wait until you are 64 and run Auchenai Crypts for this quest to obtain The Exarch's Protector.
Shoulders - Pauldrons of Brute Force from The Underbog.
Legs - Greaves of the Iron Guardian, also drops from The Underbog.
Back - Bogstrok Scale Cloak from Slave Pens or Cloak of Enduring Swiftness from The Underbog.
Other:
Finger - Blessed Signet Ring would be a big upgrade from your rings and can be obtained through this quest in Terokkar Forest (it says level 64 in Alla to attain, but Wowhead says you can do the quest at 63). Also, Nexus-Stalker's Band is a nice upgrade from a quest in Nagrand.
Weapon - You're a couple levels away from some nice upgrades, but if you see Axe of the Legion on the AH (or are very lucky to have it drop) then you might consider picking it up.
Trinket - Run through this quest in Hellfire Peninsula to obtain this trinket.
Anyways, guess I could go on and on. Just research some gear upgrades, work on your rotation a bit, and keep running dungeons and I'm sure you'll do great.
Edited, Jan 20th 2010 10:29am by CountFenris
ShadorVIII wrote:
Basically I will charge to start, then I will mostly Devastate, Revenge when it is up, and do the occasional Shield Bash. Every now and then, I may throw in a Shockwave on groups.
I work a little differently from you, but you've got a solid base.
On a trash pull, I will normally pull the mob with a ranged attack (make sure you're topped off so your healer doesn't pull aggro, or stand between the healer and the mobs).
As the group gets closer (they should converge on you, assuming they're not casters), charge and Thunderclap, Devastate your main target as you position yourself in front of the group, then Shockwave.
Shield Block as soon as Shockwave stun ends. From there on tab Devastate and Shield Slam / Revenge on CD. Thunderclap on CD if you've got more than 1-2 mobs. Spell reflect can help a ton with threat on caster mobs, and helps reduce damage taken too.
You can get multiple spell reflects from a first cast of group of casters if you get good at it. :-)
Mostly just keep practicing. Never let yourself say "good enough". Always think "how can I do it better?" How do you deal with a caster? Two? Two that are spread out from each other with other melee mobs? A group of 4 casters that are spread out? 45 casters that are spread out? OK, that last one might be tough.
Then there's positioning. Are you positioning mobs so that melee can stand behind them without pulling other groups / pats? How good are you at not giving mobs your back? Can you kite without giving mobs your back? If you have to reposition, what's the best way to do it? What's the fastest? What's the fastest way so that melee only have to turn rather than running around chasing you like chickens with their heads cut off?
When you're in a pull, do you keep an eye out on surroundings so you can pick up the pack of mobs your hunter just aggroed when he hit Disengage?
Now, all of that said --- most importantly, HAVE FUN AND DON'T STRESS ABOUT IT! :) Keep trying. You will get better at tanking, as long as you're aware of what's going on in a group.
Good luck, and enjoy your tanking. :)
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,150 posts
CountFenris wrote:
I have a warrior tank who is my alt, so I will try to give you some advice, but I'm not an expert since he isn't my main.
In regards to pulling mobs, I'd suggest moving Thunderclap and Shockwave up in your rotation when pulling groups to grab some initial aggro on all the mobs. Additionally, one change I made that gave me much better control was to bind both Heroic Strike and Cleave to my mousewheel. I scroll down to Cleave and scroll up to Heroic Strike. It saves me time not having to press an extra key, and allows me to ensure I am using Cleave on groups and Heroic Strike to rage dump, etc. Shield Slam is excellent - always use it when it is off cooldown. Shield Bash I would only use to interrupt a spellcaster.
In regards to pulling mobs, I'd suggest moving Thunderclap and Shockwave up in your rotation when pulling groups to grab some initial aggro on all the mobs. Additionally, one change I made that gave me much better control was to bind both Heroic Strike and Cleave to my mousewheel. I scroll down to Cleave and scroll up to Heroic Strike. It saves me time not having to press an extra key, and allows me to ensure I am using Cleave on groups and Heroic Strike to rage dump, etc. Shield Slam is excellent - always use it when it is off cooldown. Shield Bash I would only use to interrupt a spellcaster.
Actually I think I am using shield slam and just put the wrong name in here. Keybindings are foreign territory to me. I'm just now getting used to using the number keys instead of clicking, so I don't wanna get too fancy yet but I'll keep it in mind.
CountFenris wrote:
As for talent build, yours looks pretty good. The only suggestion I'd make is to perhaps replace your Glyph of Devastate with Glyph of Blocking.
Hmmm... What does blocking do, exactly? (I know these are probably noobish questions). Wouldn't building more threat be preferable to avoiding damage (that's what healers are for, after all)?
CountFenris wrote:
As for your gear, I noticed that you don't have a single piece with defense rating on it. You also have zero hit rating, which you'll want to improve. Here's some suggestions:
Suggestions
Cool. I have been questing in HFP, but I may try Zanger now. As for instances, I just go whereever random dungeon finder sends me.
Also, I wonder about defense. Isn't Blizz going to do away with that in Cata? Perhaps I shouldn't get too dependant on it?
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,150 posts
Sorry for the double post but it's easier for me to respond to one person at a time.
I work a little differently from you, but you've got a solid base.
On a trash pull, I will normally pull the mob with a ranged attack (make sure you're topped off so your healer doesn't pull aggro, or stand between the healer and the mobs).
As the group gets closer (they should converge on you, assuming they're not casters), charge and Thunderclap, Devastate your main target as you position yourself in front of the group, then Shockwave.
Can you charge after already engaging a mob? Hmmm... I'll have to try that.
Shield Block as soon as Shockwave stun ends. From there on tab Devastate and Shield Slam / Revenge on CD. Thunderclap on CD if you've got more than 1-2 mobs. Spell reflect can help a ton with threat on caster mobs, and helps reduce damage taken too.
You can get multiple spell reflects from a first cast of group of casters if you get good at it. :-)
Spell reflect? Is that an ability or something automatic?
Mostly just keep practicing. Never let yourself say "good enough". Always think "how can I do it better?" How do you deal with a caster? Two? Two that are spread out from each other with other melee mobs? A group of 4 casters that are spread out? 45 casters that are spread out? OK, that last one might be tough.
Then there's positioning. Are you positioning mobs so that melee can stand behind them without pulling other groups / pats? How good are you at not giving mobs your back? Can you kite without giving mobs your back? If you have to reposition, what's the best way to do it? What's the fastest? What's the fastest way so that melee only have to turn rather than running around chasing you like chickens with their heads cut off?
When you're in a pull, do you keep an eye out on surroundings so you can pick up the pack of mobs your hunter just aggroed when he hit Disengage?
Aaaccck! Advanced technique :P
Hmmm.... Honestly, I just take everyting the same. I do know to take out casters/healers first, then the others but aside from that, I just do like I said. Mostly I take mobs on where they stand. I do try to keep in front of them, obviously. Hard to fight what's behind you.
Surroundings is the hardest. Usually the pack I'm fighting fills my vision. Add to that spells of various kinds going off and it's all I can do to focus on what I'm hitting. Then, if I notice somone has grabbed aggro, I have to find what they grabbed, click it (while it's running) and taunt. (there must be a better what to do this. Add-ons, perhaps).
Now, all of that said --- most importantly, HAVE FUN AND DON'T STRESS ABOUT IT! :) Keep trying. You will get better at tanking, as long as you're aware of what's going on in a group.
Good luck, and enjoy your tanking. :)
Thanks. I do try to just have fun, but I always feel guilty when someone grabs aggro and dies or we wipe. Even if someone else admits fault, I always am thinking that maybe a better tank could have compinsated and salvaged things where I didn't. Ah well. At least most groups have been nice so far.
tabstopper wrote:
ShadorVIII wrote:
Basically I will charge to start, then I will mostly Devastate, Revenge when it is up, and do the occasional Shield Bash. Every now and then, I may throw in a Shockwave on groups.
I work a little differently from you, but you've got a solid base.
On a trash pull, I will normally pull the mob with a ranged attack (make sure you're topped off so your healer doesn't pull aggro, or stand between the healer and the mobs).
As the group gets closer (they should converge on you, assuming they're not casters), charge and Thunderclap, Devastate your main target as you position yourself in front of the group, then Shockwave.
Can you charge after already engaging a mob? Hmmm... I'll have to try that.
tabstopper wrote:
Shield Block as soon as Shockwave stun ends. From there on tab Devastate and Shield Slam / Revenge on CD. Thunderclap on CD if you've got more than 1-2 mobs. Spell reflect can help a ton with threat on caster mobs, and helps reduce damage taken too.
You can get multiple spell reflects from a first cast of group of casters if you get good at it. :-)
Spell reflect? Is that an ability or something automatic?
tabstopper wrote:
Mostly just keep practicing. Never let yourself say "good enough". Always think "how can I do it better?" How do you deal with a caster? Two? Two that are spread out from each other with other melee mobs? A group of 4 casters that are spread out? 45 casters that are spread out? OK, that last one might be tough.
Then there's positioning. Are you positioning mobs so that melee can stand behind them without pulling other groups / pats? How good are you at not giving mobs your back? Can you kite without giving mobs your back? If you have to reposition, what's the best way to do it? What's the fastest? What's the fastest way so that melee only have to turn rather than running around chasing you like chickens with their heads cut off?
When you're in a pull, do you keep an eye out on surroundings so you can pick up the pack of mobs your hunter just aggroed when he hit Disengage?
Aaaccck! Advanced technique :P
Hmmm.... Honestly, I just take everyting the same. I do know to take out casters/healers first, then the others but aside from that, I just do like I said. Mostly I take mobs on where they stand. I do try to keep in front of them, obviously. Hard to fight what's behind you.
Surroundings is the hardest. Usually the pack I'm fighting fills my vision. Add to that spells of various kinds going off and it's all I can do to focus on what I'm hitting. Then, if I notice somone has grabbed aggro, I have to find what they grabbed, click it (while it's running) and taunt. (there must be a better what to do this. Add-ons, perhaps).
tabstopper wrote:
Now, all of that said --- most importantly, HAVE FUN AND DON'T STRESS ABOUT IT! :) Keep trying. You will get better at tanking, as long as you're aware of what's going on in a group.
Good luck, and enjoy your tanking. :)
Thanks. I do try to just have fun, but I always feel guilty when someone grabs aggro and dies or we wipe. Even if someone else admits fault, I always am thinking that maybe a better tank could have compinsated and salvaged things where I didn't. Ah well. At least most groups have been nice so far.
ShadorVIII wrote:
Can you charge after already engaging a mob? Hmmm... I'll have to try that.
Yes, Warbringer lets you do this. Speaking of Warbringer, this is a nice macro (think I got it right, don't have access to my account from this computer) that lets you use Charge, Intercept, and Intervene all on one button:
/castsequence reset=15 Charge, Intercept
/cast [help] Intervene; [target=targettarget, help] Intervene;
As a Warrior, you have the best mobility of any tank in the game. Definitely abuse it. :)
ShadorVIII wrote:
Spell reflect? Is that an ability or something automatic?
Sorry, Spell Reflection is a level 64 ability. You probably don't have it yet. It is an active ability that costs 15 rage. It will reflect one DD spell cast at you (a decent # of boss abilities don't reflect). Unless of course you have multiple spells in the air before the first one lands, in which case it will reflect all of them.
ShadorVIII wrote:
Hmmm.... Honestly, I just take everyting the same. I do know to take out casters/healers first, then the others but aside from that, I just do like I said. Mostly I take mobs on where they stand. I do try to keep in front of them, obviously. Hard to fight what's behind you.
It's useful to be able to move mobs out of the way of pats etc. And there are times where you *have* to move mobs. AOE Flamestrikes for example - if you stand where you're at odds are your melee DPS will be barbecued.
ShadorVIII wrote:
Surroundings is the hardest. Usually the pack I'm fighting fills my vision.
Zooming your camera out as far as it will go will help your screen not be completely taken up by the pack you're currently finding.
/console cameraDistanceMax 50
will allow you zoom your camera out as far as the game will let it. (Increases your maximum possible zoom, not your current zoom). Obviously, you may not want it out that wide all the time, but there are times when it's really useful.
The other thing to keep in mind is that you can move your camera by holding down the left mouse button (obviously doesn't work if you're a clicker, but you should be moving to keybinds anyway) and dragging it to change your angle. Again, invaluable on some fights.
Good luck - hope those tips are helpful.
ShadorVIII wrote:
Hmmm... What does blocking do, exactly? (I know these are probably noobish questions). Wouldn't building more threat be preferable to avoiding damage (that's what healers are for, after all)?
Well, it helps in two ways. Not only does it increase your block, and thus your mitigation (and blocking an attack is not technically avoidance), but your Shield Slam ability (a warrior's main threat attack) is modified by your block value, so it increases the damage from that ability and therefore helps your threat as well. That is why it helps to put up Shield Block before Shield Slam - just watch the increased damage you gain while that is active.
ShadorVIII wrote:
Also, I wonder about defense. Isn't Blizz going to do away with that in Cata? Perhaps I shouldn't get too dependant on it?
From the sound of it, yes, they will be removing defense rating as a stat to balance when Cataclysm hits. However, if you want to tank now it is advisable you build up some defense rating, especially as you close in on 80.
ShadorVIII wrote:
Hmmm... What does blocking do, exactly? (I know these are probably noobish questions). Wouldn't building more threat be preferable to avoiding damage (that's what healers are for, after all)?
With Damage Shield, blocking (as well as taking an unblocked hit) gives you a passive threat producer. In a pack of mobs, using Shield Block not only increases your chance to block, it also increases your block value, which increases the damage you do on mobs that are hitting you. Add in Critical Block, and you have a way of increasing your threat production on mobs that you haven't even targetted yet.
This makes it very important to keep mobs in a position where you can actually block them so you can build up passive threat in addition to your direct aoe abilities.
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