Gear Check research assuranceFollow

well i've researched what i've could after coming back to wow after 8 months [hard college semester]

This is atleast the 3rd or 4th time in my wow career that i've gone by allakazam's word of whether what i'am thinking and planning is right.

My aim for now is entry into TOC. in other words 3.2 raiding. I have a nelf rogue.

iam using the ideal mutilate build.

Gem plans are

Blue - shifty dead stoner
red - delicate cardinal ruby
yellow - deadly ametrine [ideally] or glinting ametrine [compromise] or rigid kings wood [if hit is too low] [i'am noticing a severe lack of hit in most of the rogue items i saw]
Meta - we all know this.

Helm - Either T9-Vancleef or Lethal Intent [75 emblems of T]. I'd rather go for Lethal Intent.

Necklace - Already have arathor. Aiming for Barbed yummy choker [forgemaster from pit of saron]

shoulders - choice between t9 for 30 emblems of T or Duststalker for 45 emblems. smaller gap between these two than there is between the helms. If i really want the [4] set bonus. Ill go for t9. More on this when i get you in my pants.

cape - the accursed crawling cape from forge of souls [devourer] looks nice but the naxx 25 cape, deadly foe, from kelthuzad [which never drops..] seems an option yet.

Chest - t9 for 50 Emblems of T. If it drops, i'll wear Choking hauberk from Halls of reflection [marwyn]till i get emblems of T. But really, 50 emblems doesnt take too long at all, so why bother?

Wrists - Chewed leather wristguards from the pit.

Gloves - meh T9 seems the only viable option. So at the very least i'am getting the [2] set bonus by default.

Belt - Flayer blackbelt from forgemaster of the peach pit [must be starring in the new karate kid movie]

Pants - Now there is the t9 for 50 emblems of T. But i'am eyeing the fleshwerk legs from 5man TOC, it does look so much better. Is the combined benefits of these pants and the previously mentioned duskstalker shoulders over their t9 equivalents worth more than the [4] set bonus whcih consists of a 5% higher crit rate for muty? hmm

Shoes - Blighted leather footpads look great. but heroic Tch [aka 5man toc] has Dismal Fortune which does seem better .

Rings - Dexterous brightstone for 35 emblems of T. For sure. But...Carnelian&Bone [normal Forgemaster Garfrost of the peach pit] and Stained Souls from the last boss of the heroic peach pit both seem so good. Iam not sure which is better.

Trinkets - i already have the mark of supremacy. The needle encrusted scorpion seems an obvious choice. the shard of crystal heart looks nice, but i dont think as nice as the former two.

oh ya the ranged weapon. Crimson star for 25 emblems. Papa's new knife looks good too.

Daggers. I currently got bloodweeper and i dont see anything better. I have the black knights rondel for now. I'am aiming for the unsharpened nose picker, random drop from the icecrown instances.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2010 6:29am by Tenjen

Edited, Jan 2nd 2010 6:37am by Tenjen

Thank you very much!

about the gems. So i stack ap gems in blue and red sockets. and yellow sockets get ap/haste if the other socket[s] was a yellow/red within the same item?

edit: i wasnt aware of armor pens lack of value in Muty. I'll reconsider the variety of choices i have for the rings/helm/shoulder/pants/ranged.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2010 6:39am by Tenjen

yep, i realised that when you mentioned it. 8 months away has dulled my wow sense more than i thought : \

Show me where it says not to gem straight AP.



The spreadsheet(should) tell you to gem straight AP, unless you have the expertise option on or your under spell hit cap.

Things I see.

Glyph of Rupture is unneeded. Get Tricks Glyph or FoK Glyph.

Haste Enchant on Cloak is better than AGI enchant now.

And could do with a tiny bit less Expertise but no big deal.

Also, check to see if using the two badge 245 pieces for Head/Shoulders would be better than using 4p T9.

I never have, and never will be, a fan of stacking ArP. We aren't warriors. And 2 of your 3 top attacks aren't affected by armor pen...I guess I'd have to see solid proof before dropping all my AP/haste gems. (.34 oh speed w/ a potion is disgusting).

Secondly - the other rouge in our 25 tried the ArP gems for both a mut and combat axe/dagger build. DPS went way up (caught up with me) with only gemming AP/Exp to cap.

i love such wonderful mature debates <3

Noc - I can tell you this - mut dmg is insane right now. Rotation has been simplified, and if you have another rogue to trix trade with, it's a ton of fun. Myself and our other rogue both pulled 9k+ on Saurfang last week, and I was using a toc10 offhand. Poison dmg is right next to melee around 31% or so. Popping a speed pot during bloodlust = bonkers dps.

Mutilate isn't all that different from Combat now.

Combat: Spam SS, Keep SnD up, Spam Evis.
Mutilate: Spam Muti, Keep HfB up, Spam Envenom.

I'm the only consistent rogue in my guild, so I just take whatever drops when they aren't there and let them have it if they want it while they are.

((Unless its something silly like Deaths Verdict, in that case **** the other rogues ;p))

H OK specific buff. Go figure.

Sure, 114 crit rating is great. The proc is terrible though.

If you have nothing better, which...I can't believe, that sure use it.

But for Muti there are several other options. Mark of Supremacy, DMC:Greatness, and Mirror of Truth are all better because of their procs.

EDIT: More information. This is based on MY mutilate gear, your milage may vary so consult your spreadsheet before making expensive decisions.

My stat weights according to the Spreadsheet are:
(Only the ones that matter)
AGI=1.92
Crit=1.7
White Hit=1.79
Haste=1.88
ArPen=1.14

So, now lets look at the trinkets I spoke of above, ignoring the procs for now.

Mark of Supremacy: 128 Hit Rating
DMC:G: 90 Agility
Mirror of Truth: 84 Critical Strike Rating
Needle Encrusted Scorpion: 114 Critical Strike Rating

Now, lets assign a value to each of those based on my stat weights.

MoS: 229.12=128*1.79
DMC:G: 172.8=90*1.92
MoT: 142.8=84*1.7
NES: 193.8=114*1.7

Looking at the passive stats alone we can see that Mark of Supremacy is better than Needle Encrusted Scorpion is better than Darkmoon Card Greatness is better than Mirror of Truth.

But...if you look at it that way you are ignoring the most important part of most trinkets...the procs.

I'm not a math whiz, let me state that up front, so my math may be off, but it should serve my point.

Lets look at the procs for each of these trinkets. Assuming that they all have a ICD of 45 seconds, and that they will all proc the moment they are off ICD(I'll speak of Mark of Supremacy in a bit).

DMC:G: 300 AGI for 10 seconds.
MoT: 1000AP for 10 seconds.
NES: 678 ArPen for 10 seconds.

Now, for the values of the proc.

DMC:G: 576 every 45 seconds for 10 seconds.
MoT: 1000 every 45 seconds for 10 seconds.
NES: 772.92 every 45 seconds for 10 seconds.

Hm..Looking at it like that in terms of the proc's value MoT>NES>DMC:G. Interesting.

But wait, what happened to Mark of Supremacy?

MoS: 1024 AP for 20 seconds on a 2 minute Cooldown.

I'm not going to try and give that an EP value because I fail at math...but, take a look at it.

1024 AP for 20 seconds...if you hit MoS every single time it was off CD you would get roughly 2.25 procs of the above trinkets for every proc of MoS. Well, that would seem like MoS isn't as good as those right?

Except consider this...you can choose when to have that 1024 AP. Which means that you can stack MoS with other CDs. For example, you hit Killing Spree right after MoS. Thats 1024 AP to every Killing Spree attack and than every attack for 15 seconds afterwards. Or if you blow AR and MoS together, or Heroism, MoS, AR, and BF...you see where on use trinkets start to shine?

One last thing about Needle Encrusted Scorpion...Mark of Supremacy, Mirror of Truth, and Darkmoon Card Greatness all increase the damage of every single attack you have. Needle Encrusted Scorpion does not increase the damage of poisons which are upwards of 30% of your damage. That makes it even less worth using.

I hope you can wade through that wall of text okay, and if I'm wrong about something feel free to point it out.

However, in the end...USE THE ******* SPREADSHEET.

Edited, Jan 6th 2010 12:38pm by GodOfMoo

Unfortunately for me, the spreadsheet is missing some pieces for me to fully calculate what my dps should be arounud and what changes I should make. So i'll have to upgrade those pieces first before I can get a semi-accurate amount.