Thinking of switching specs.... again... need moar DPS!Follow

My most recent gear and spec: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Area+52&n=Anger

I am currently sporting the DW Frost Spec, but I am having concerns with it...

My main rotation is: IT > PS > OB > OB > Howling Blast (HB) > Blood Strike > Blood Strike > (Death Coil x3 OR Frost Strike x[3 or 4]) > (refresh diseases or..) OB > OB > HB > Blood Strike > and so on...
OR... the same as above but after PS (and the disease refesh) I hit Pestilence if I need to spread the diseases.

Doing the above I easily crit about 20k-28k (my highest I've seen) with Howling Blast if I have Killing Machine and Rime up... but most of the time HB only seems to hit for around 5k...

My average dps in a 5-man group (THANKS LFG TOOL!) is around 1800-2500... and I am not sure if it is my rotation or my gear causing it to be low while everyone else is sporting 3k+ dps and I swear it looks like I am pushing out more damage than them.

I am worried that my dual wield weapons are lacking... and I know I have some blue gear...

My other spec is Unholy but I haven't played it in about two months and from what I remember I was getting up to about 1900 dps with that spec, but this was pre-gear up although i was using a Titansteel Destroyer or whatever the 2h mace is called.

I tend to only do dailies and the new dungeon tool with this guy now, so I would like to at least seem like I know how to be a DPSer when I choose DPS as my dungeon role.


Here are the questions I need help with...

Would I see a dramatic increase in DPS if I specced Blood?

What type of weapon do you use in Blood spec? My guess would be a 2h whatever.

Could my DPS be improved just by me retooling my rotation in Frost spec?

I have never specced Blood, so I really have no clue if it can outdo Frost or Unholy in DPS. I know Blood is more for 1-2 target DPS, while Frost is single target and minor AoE DPS, and Unholy is single target and major AoE DPS (single targets not counting disease spreading with Pestilence)... ...will I put out more DPS as Blood spec when I am in random dungeons with others and not actually get laughed at because I am doing lower DPS than the tank?

Thanks for the help...

...and please... be kind to me.

I have a feeling you would. I pulled around 2100-2400 myself as blood when wearing your gear in a PvP spec. Today I pulled 3700 DPS on Saurfang, which is pretty much a target dummy fight.


Yup, definitely a 2-hander. I think dual-wielding frost is currently 'viable' but I'm 99% certain that dual-wielding blood/unholy isn't going to get you anywhere. I tend to go with weapons with armor penetration on them, but that is more because I want the stat for PvP - today I had a shot at getting the Citadel Enforcer's Claymore and I'd definitely use that over my Tyrannical Beheader for PvE DPS.


Good question. I'll say 'possibly'. Try the standard EJ rotation on a target dummy for a minute or 5 and see what happens. If you don't break the 2500, then your rotation is probably already optimal and you'll have to look at gear or spec to improve your damage. By heart I'd say 2500 DPS is probably the most or close to the most DPS you can get out of your gear, but I have absolutely no clue how well frost scales.

Edit: The Tyrannical Beheader linked to the Citadel Enforcer's Claymore as well =(

Edited, Dec 23rd 2009 7:42am by Mozared

I tend to goto EJ to have a look at the viable rotations for each spec is on whatever class I am playing at the time, but I (I might be the only one who sees this...) start seeing the post that is there to "teach" you play mechanics turn into an engineer course and it seems that I need to whip out my calculator in order to understand half of what is going on in the rest of thread apart from what gear/specc/glyphs I should be using...

BTW... I did look at those threads on EJ.com before asking my questions here, but like I said ... it was mind numbing. Regarding the Frost thread... I think thai is the thread I got most of my info from when I specced from Unholy to Frost a couple of months ago.

Don't use death coil in dw frost unless you we're knocked back and all your FU runes are down and you cant either IT or HB while you run back. This should honestly never happen so, once again. Don't DC.

Given that the bonus is +4str match socket.

Frost DW DKs need to think a fair bit on their feet when dpsing.

Rime procs (but not many targets (<2) dun wait for KM use HB)
KM procs (loads of targets and FU runes up, smash HB)
Rune dump at any time when you got a full bar, I really do not wait for KM proc since I am wasting perfectly good dps.

Your DK is an Orc try to get the Axe off James Brown.

GoD is not worth it since it does not refresh Icy Talons. The faster you swing your wpns the more you dps. I normally use Pest at the initial phase of a trash pull, hoping to get lucky with the blood strike for a KM so that I can blow a HB that crits on the whole bunch. Normally you will get a 15k pain bomb. Wail away at the target as per normal till dead swap IT again to keep Icy Talons up. The spec is severely more sensitive to gear and if you upgrade you should see a difference especially on your Oblit crits. 5 man record for me is still 13k or 14k, in a raid the dmg can be pretty sick.

I do wanna know why no UA (UA no UA is a debate on its own) but given even my current gear I have it and its pretty nice. I just save Emp RW for it so I can hit UA, put all my runes on CD then EMP and go again. I also started using my ghoul as a dps trinket (it takes ur current stats as its base so time it well for full effect).

I went with an Inscribed Ametrine for the gem.


And who is James Brown and where is this guy located at ... and what is the ax's name?

Arp isn't bad for any dk spec. It's not something you should actively seek as DW though. Having it though isn't a bad thing.

Sometimes I wish I was still DW frost because of how much fun the spec actually is, but unholy is still lots of fun and I do seriously enjoy seeing 7k DC's and 11k SS.

What Mazra said is true, it's just that most high-end fights are simply single-target based which makes AOE DPS virtually pointless in most cases. Even for heroics, this is true. Hence why I'd say "do not avoid blood purely because it's AOE damage is lower".

I leveled my DK as Unholy... switched to DW Frost about 2-3 months ago... gained about 800 dps or so...

I have been getting close to 3k dps with my Blood spec...

Picked up Black Icicle tonight in H-HoR... it isn't a great leap in damage/stats from my Tankards of Terror... but I am starting to think I am onlygoing to get better weapons (by leaps and bounds) by getting into raid groups.... which probably wont happen.

Still need to try and get Nighttime x2.... or try for two Black Icicles... who knows.

I'm curious how people switch from Unholy to Frost and gain DPS.

On short AOE fights, yes, but single targets as well? I easily pull 3-4k DPS in the new heroics due to the packs and health levels there. There are a lot of mobs and they live long enough for Unholy to shine. Plus, with the AOE, people are getting really freaky about Ebon Plaguebringer.

Hmm, perhaps it's time to dust off the ol' DW Frost spec and check it out with some new weapons. That damn axe is never going to drop for me anyway. Dammit.

I see how Howling Blast might provide better DPS in old heroics due to the pack mobs not having a lot of health. However, Pit of Saron in mind, the moment stuff lives through a Howling Blast, I'd switch to Unholy. Not only do you get more effective use of Wandering Plague (when your diseases tick for 600 damage and everyone in the area takes 600 damage every other tick, it's pretty nice), you also boost any spell caster there might be in the group. EPB increases their DPS on packs by 13% or something, right? If a Mage is doing 10k DPS on packs, he'd be doing 11300 DPS instead, roughly speaking. 1300 DPS is a pretty nice boost.

Granted, if the group is melee heavy and lacking a Shaman, I tend to switch to Frost. It hurts my DPS, though.