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Armor Pen. vs Set BonusFollow
So I understand armor pen. is a must have stat for feral druids at lvl 80. I have a chest piece that is far better than the Conqueror's Nightsong Raiments chest piece that I also have. The Choking Hauberk (currently worn chest piece) has +89 armor pen. but I my head piece is the Conqueror's Nightsong Headguard which if added with the Raiments give the clearcasting set bonus. So which is better, better stats or a clear casting set bonus?
The answer is likely stick with the tier bonus.
ArP is mainly a geared 25 man raider stat.
Also an armory would help greatly.
ArP is mainly a geared 25 man raider stat.
Also an armory would help greatly.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Short version: Without looking at your armory, I'd say go with the tier set bonus. ArP is good, 2t8 set bonus is better. At least for the small difference in stats from a 226 piece (Ulduar 25/Emblem of Conquest) to a 232 piece (ToC 10/ IC heroic 5-mans).
Long version: The Choking Hauberk has an extra 15 Agi, 10 AP, 10 Hit, and 89 ArP over Conqueror's Nightsog Raiments, but is lacking an extra socket and 66 crit. You'll actually get the socket bonus on the the hauberk, so that's actually an extra 14 hit rating. With epic gems, the stat difference looks like:
tier 8
+ 5 Agi
-14 Hit
-10 AP
-89 ArP
+66 Crit
Clearcast proc on bleeds
The agi cancels out the AP and then some, Crit and ArP are reasonably close if you don't already have a lot of ArP (107 weigted value vs 66, guessing at your relative gear level). In fact, while I'm just guessing at your gear level, Rawr puts the 2t8 bonus as better than replacing your chest with my Vest of Calamitous Fate from ToGC 25 (iLevel 258, if you were wondering). It's only when you upgrade both pieces giving you your 2t8 that it's actually worth breaking your set bonus.
Long version: The Choking Hauberk has an extra 15 Agi, 10 AP, 10 Hit, and 89 ArP over Conqueror's Nightsog Raiments, but is lacking an extra socket and 66 crit. You'll actually get the socket bonus on the the hauberk, so that's actually an extra 14 hit rating. With epic gems, the stat difference looks like:
tier 8
+ 5 Agi
-14 Hit
-10 AP
-89 ArP
+66 Crit
Clearcast proc on bleeds
The agi cancels out the AP and then some, Crit and ArP are reasonably close if you don't already have a lot of ArP (107 weigted value vs 66, guessing at your relative gear level). In fact, while I'm just guessing at your gear level, Rawr puts the 2t8 bonus as better than replacing your chest with my Vest of Calamitous Fate from ToGC 25 (iLevel 258, if you were wondering). It's only when you upgrade both pieces giving you your 2t8 that it's actually worth breaking your set bonus.
Horsemouth wrote:
ArP is mainly a geared 25 man raider stat.
ArP is a wonky stat.
For it to truly excel you need FF, Sunder, and other debuffs up on the mob.
It is NOT A MUST HAVE STAT FOR DRUIDS AT LEVEL 80.
To really benefit from ArP you need a lot of other debuffs and a high level of ArP. High as in over 800.
In a ten man without all the ArP friendly buffs you need over 1000. Which is an unlikely passive number to achieve with 10 man gear. Also passive means before gemming ArP.
So if you have T8 and and want to ditch it for a high ArP piece you likely don't really understand ArP.
If the OP wants and requests I can give a clinic on ArP and general feral DPS stats at level 80 depending on what tier you are involved with, your group comp and other gear factors.
Gear level matters for feral DPS. When in full 245+ level gear fricking haste starts to be a better DPS stat than crit.
Seriously guys, ArP is mainly for 25 man raiders with 25 man gear.
Just focus on Agility OP.
The tier bonus is hawt. Clearcasting procs smooth the rotation out like money.
Edited, Dec 23rd 2009 7:23am by Horsemouth
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
ArP also relies on a lot more boss uptime since it's a bigger boost to your white hits and CP makers; agility gives boosts all around, including to the bleeds.
I tried ArP at Rawr's behest and wasn't impressed. It's probably beastly on something like Vezax where you have 100% uptime but the more you have to spend off boss the less effective it gets. I opted to stick to agility and let whatever comes on my gear suffice.
I tried ArP at Rawr's behest and wasn't impressed. It's probably beastly on something like Vezax where you have 100% uptime but the more you have to spend off boss the less effective it gets. I opted to stick to agility and let whatever comes on my gear suffice.
Actually, since ArP is independant of debuffs on the target, it should theoretically be weaker the more armor debuffs that are on the target.
IE If the target has 10,000 armor, Sunder reduces that by 20% to 8,000, FF is another 5% (I believe it's multiplicative) reducing it further to 7,600. 30% ArP would further reduce the targets armor to 5320.
Without FF and Sunder, ArP would reduce armor from 10,000 to 7,000.
A hit for 4,000 on 10k armor (no debuffs) deals ~2,415 damage.
On 7k (with 30% ArP) armor, ~2,741.
30% ArP increased damage by ~326.
13.5% increase.
On 7600 armor (Sunder x5 + FF), 2669 damage.
On 5320 armor (Sunder x5, FF, and 30% ArP), 2964 damage.
30% ArP increased damage by ~295.
~11% increase.
ArP does increase in value the more of it you have, but that has more to do with the way the Armor => Damage Reduction formula works than with stacking armor penalties.
In any case, we all agree that your 2 piece bonus from tier 8 is better than the stat increases on your chest piece.
IE If the target has 10,000 armor, Sunder reduces that by 20% to 8,000, FF is another 5% (I believe it's multiplicative) reducing it further to 7,600. 30% ArP would further reduce the targets armor to 5320.
Without FF and Sunder, ArP would reduce armor from 10,000 to 7,000.
A hit for 4,000 on 10k armor (no debuffs) deals ~2,415 damage.
On 7k (with 30% ArP) armor, ~2,741.
30% ArP increased damage by ~326.
13.5% increase.
On 7600 armor (Sunder x5 + FF), 2669 damage.
On 5320 armor (Sunder x5, FF, and 30% ArP), 2964 damage.
30% ArP increased damage by ~295.
~11% increase.
ArP does increase in value the more of it you have, but that has more to do with the way the Armor => Damage Reduction formula works than with stacking armor penalties.
In any case, we all agree that your 2 piece bonus from tier 8 is better than the stat increases on your chest piece.
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