PSA-Mutilate is now OPFollow

These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.

I don't want to "discuss." I want to eat my cereal in silence.

Yes its late. I was lazy and didn't look **** up til now cause I kept coming to Alla.

<.< but...the rogue boards are dead.

*Curses* My stimulus package didn't work!

Ive been mut since it was available (minus a little stint as sub sword shs spec). I still think I'm going to be well behind our DK's in dmg though.


EDIT: This is EJ's projected best dps spec. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0ec0egoVboIuVo0xV0xcZb:TIp

My question is losing Opportunity and Relentless strike for 10% melee haste and movement speed worth it? 20% less mutilate dmg seems like a big price to pay

Edited, Dec 8th 2009 4:12pm by ThomasMagnum

According to the spreadsheet its worth it.

Probably because not as much damage comes from Muti now, especially with 2 fast daggers.

Oh, you were serious? Well, I'm drunk, so I guess I owe you an apology, Thomas.

I've been reading the last 8 pages of the EJ "latest Rogue changes post". I read it last night so i'm kind of paraphrasing and kind of doing this from memory. This post is also to ask you guys to verify if i read it correctly.

We're looking at:

1) Weapon swapping macro's needed for maximum DPS.
2) Checking if we hit crit+Arpen hard and softcap.
3) switching poisons for the first time in 2-3 patches???
4) Instead of 1.4/1.4 daggers for Muti PVE going 1.8/1.4.
5) Envenom in combat builds.
6) Hit starvation on ICC gear, so need to start gemming for hit again and the impact this has to trinkets with a lot of hit on it.
7) Haste being more and more important for Muti builds.
8) Muti beating combat by a damn lot in DPS.
9) really needing two sets of gear; for AOE type fights with short rampup times like Jarraxus/Anub combat wins, single DPS targets like patchwerk muti is king+++++
10) new cookie cutter builds.


1) Pretty clear even for a mathtard like me. If you already have 5 stacks of DP, it's logical to switch weapons to add some other poisons for the duration of the 5 stacks. Do i want this? Not really. What's the best way to do this in case i do get my ancient mind to get this to work.

2) I read this on that thread; wtf is the crit/arpen soft/hard cap??? Never heard of this before. Help please.

3) I mean switching poisons for combat spec: i used to use Wound MH, DP OH. This will now be instant MH/deadly OH. For muti it will stay IP MH / DP OH.

4) It used to be fast/fast daggers for muti PVE, this will now be 1.8 MH / 1.4 OH.

5) I read it between the threads but no one mentioned a rotation to use it in.

6) It seems that the EJ's still weren't clear on wether or not the +hit trinkets (like Grim Toll <- bad example because the on hit chance of Arpen but an example non-the-less) would be king. Is there a verdict now?

7) Gem priority for Muti seems to be hit (untill poison cap), then ATK/haste as Arpen isn't usefull for Muti builds (most attacks don't get mitigated by armor anyway).

8) This makes me a little sad; i was combat while levelling; muti for a little while in TBC when it ruled, then back to combat ever since the rest of TBC and stayed combat for the whole of WOTLK (only muti for pvp). Now, if i want to do the most DPS i can i have to muti (which i would love) but since we have no Warrior our raid would loose the 4% debuff on the target. So, now i can finally be Muti again; but not really because i don't have the set for it + we can't loose the 4% debuff. GAH.

9) This is crap, now i need 3 sets of gear. Muti PVE, combat PVE then Muti PVP. I would love a tri-spec option for 10k gold right about now.

10) Haven't seen a combat cookie cutter spec yet, but it seems because of the crit cap (once again, wtf?) it would be a lot better to spec Hack-N-Slash than Close-Quarter-Combat. For combat specs, swords/axes seems to be king. The verdict wasn't really out yet on the itimization of the daggers (as slow as 1.4) versus the slower (usually 1.5/1.6/1.7) OH swords/axes; fist daggers might still win because of the faster procs on DP versus the more useful HnS bonus. What is the new Muti PVP spec and will it need weapon swapping as well ...



So, in short.... Help!!! I need to relearn everything on Rogues :P

Edited, Dec 9th 2009 11:31am by samperor

Get snd and hfb up and env til the cows come home. Drop rupture unless its to reup hfb.


I'm going to stay in my same mut spec with straight AGI gemmed, and see what it parses out to tonight in ICC 25. Aldrianna had a quick guide to 3.3, didn't mention anything on weapon swapping, just slow ip / fast dp.


On a side note, did anything change to mutilates pvp damage? I felt like I was throwing wet noodles last night.



Edited, Dec 9th 2009 10:25am by ThomasMagnum

thanks Thomas, but i wrote in combat builds :D

Moo you like the new spec even w/o gemming ap/haste?

Ok this spec was great thru the first boss in ICC25. Second boss it kinda sucked, but that's because we were trying different strats. Blow up power isnt really there, but longer fights this spec is going to rock with the T10 2pc bonus.

a 2k dps gain is what most people are seeing from what i've heard.

are you guys using rupture-less rotations for these high numbers, or is that just combat only?