Frost PvE FAQFollow

Finally got a chance to test her out in a raid, and I'm VERY pleased with the results.
I don't know what kind of damage is usually done on Twins, though I do realise it's higher, but I was very proud of just under 7400, as my highest on them before was around 5K.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7739/wowscrnshot121409231117.jpg

You'll also note that my gear is still pretty mediocre, with an average ilvl of only 221. I was also unbuffed from the balls as I forgot to collect any, though Puddles did grab a few for me.

On Anub, I didn't get a screenshot, but did 6K up to the point where a lazy tank let an add eat me. I received a battle rez, but had 3-4 things broken from a night of stupid mistakes.

On that note, does anyone have any kind of idea how bad the AoE nerf really was? I used to be able to do 14K DPS or more on larger aoe pulls, now I can't pass 4K (which is what I do single target if I'm half asleep). Frost used to be the top of the AoE game, now I believe it's pallies.

I can load up WWS Tuesday when we go through the weekly raid and ICC.
On Koralon, I did 6500, fully raid buffed. I would expect 6kish to be normal for my gear there.
I'll post up the WWS Tuesday if it'll help you out.

Edit: It's streaky. I replaced my T82pc with T94pc, and I'm seeing some odd numbers. I'm starting to think that T8 2 piece is irreplacable for frost mages. More number crunching is required.

Edited, Dec 20th 2009 4:55am by jaysgsl

Good post Bossman, will be sure to try to follow it, for now I am just playing around on the PTR with a Mage to see if I really wanna level the lowbie I have, Mage isn't really one of my strong classes but eventually I suppose like a Priest and Rogue I will have to level one, or I won't reach my goal of a level 80 of every class... *takes this moment to prey for a Class Reroll option from Blizz* anyway keep up the good work dude and see you in game on raid nights.

I have just started levelling my mage, always loved the frost idea so been planning to go frost the whole time. Just got a few questions which I probably already know the answers to, but feel like checking anyway.

The Glyph of Frostbolt removes the slowing effect, im guessing this has no effect on Fingers or Brain Freeze proccing?

And from what I can figure out I should never be using Ice Lance in a raid? Or should I use it when Fingers of Frost is procced but Deep Freeze is on cooldown? Or in that situation would I keep casting Frostbolt?
Edit: Idiot that I am I reread your post on 3.3 and found the bit telling me not to use Ice Lance. Move along here, nothing to see.

Do I use my Brain Freeze procs at the earliest possible global cooldown? I cant think why I wouldnt, but always best to ask this sort of thing.


Also a question about Torment the Weak, I know that I am being completely dense here, but for the life of me I cant think of any slows or snares that work on raid bosses, or are routinely applied as part of a dps rotation. Please correct me so I know what I am looking for.
Also we dont appear to have any ability to regen mana while casting, do we just get by without it due to the lower mana cost of frost spells, and the replenishment?


Sorry for all the questions, just a few things that were concerning me as I levelled. 10 Levels til I get my Puddles, happy days.

Edited, Mar 17th 2010 2:23am by EbanySalamonderiel

Every tank has a slow. DKs have FF. Warriors have Thunderstomp. Druids have Infected Wounds. Paladins have Judgement of the Just.

On top of that, any DK's FF works, so you only need one. Earth Shock slows as well. Other classes have some slows or snares incorporated.

But, again, due to the fact that every tank will easily slow the boss, you should always get that 13%.

Excellent posts :)

I'll stick with Arcane though, for PvE it's still the best in damage.

Mozared, until I get some time from my busy schedule to re-write the guide, your best bet is to check out the 3.3 addendum at the end.
Any information regarding the water elemental is obsolete from before that.
In short, you want the Glyph of Eternal Water at all times as a frost mage, but not the other W/E glyph.

About Icy Floes, thanks for the info. I STILL wouldn't suggest maxing the talent out, except when you're fighting the Lich King, because you pretty much have to sacrifice spirit (crit) for it, or Brain Freeze points, which once you get 2T10 are invaluable.

About Brain Freeze, which I've gotten a few questions on lately, you don't want to even use it at all until you get 2T10 or you're moving and have a charge up, though often times an ice lance keeps your damage rolling.
Any use of BF before the set bonus is a significant DPS loss.

About Arcane being stronger, I'm not 100% sold on this. IF and IF there is a discipline priest and you can manage to keep taking good damage, arcane can do some amazing ****. However, without said Disc, Arcane is only marginally higher than frost (in equal gear) on equal fights. I pugged Saurfang this week, and had MANY opportunities to try out different DPS specs. Every DPS was ranged, so I got the rare honor of being the 'target dummy' DPS (Pug, my DPS was obviously highest) after a few tries.
When I was killing beasts, I was averaging around 6K in both frost and arcane, but I was dying with less mana in arcane.
The 'target dummy' attempts were what really got me thinking. It's not difficult. Stand in melee range to reduce how much (blood boil? Blood nova? I'm terrible with spell names) the 'ranged' abilities hit me, blast things.
I did around 5 runs with him standstill.
Log of a few of them. You'll have to forgive the sparse logs, my computer for reasons unkown bogs down if the log gets too big, so I try to remember to stop / start it between fights. My memory obviously sucks.
My arcane burst was MUCH higher, around 12K DPS at peak, but my frost DPS was overall higher (the attempt we cleared him, I was frost).
I believe my final attempt on him I was averaging.... 7600? 7800? That attempt is in the log. My BEST attempt in arcane was the try we got SF down to 10%, I was doing 7200. Granted, I got very lucky with that last frost run in regards to Deep Freeze and the such, but it was an eye opener.

My arcane build seems to line up with all the top builds, and I tried a variety of rotations, but I could not find one that balanced DPS with mana consumption, and the lower DPS comes from more regen down time. By the time SF was down to around 15%, I had already used all 3 mana gems (thank the gods they are off the GCD like trinkets), evocated at least twice, and used my 'healer' trinket for another mana boost. So much downtime means less overall damage and DPS.

Edited, Mar 17th 2010 11:29am by jaysgsl

4AB 1 ArM. I didn't have my 2 piece yet, the reason I even pugged it was to get the one frost badge I needed.
I wasn't using my mana bubble, and had replenishment available.
Edit: Forgot to mention that I was also trying things as desperate as 2AB 1 ArM.
Edit2: Honestly, from the log you posted, my 10 man gear frost dps is only around 700 off of your arcane DPS. On World of Logs, it's VERY important to note that my Water elemental isn't counted in my DPS, you have to enable "show creatures" and add up the numbers manually.
And, yes, the group was absolutely terrible. As I said, it was a pug, and I took a risk by going.

Edited, Mar 17th 2010 1:27pm by jaysgsl

Adds tend to die around the same speed either way. I can kill 'em REAL fast in arcane by just keeping a 4 stack of AB up, but that makes me useless after one or two beasts.

I must have missed stating the point that, in this particular case, the entire group was ranged DPS, so I was just pulling 'melee duty' on the boss.

Without a Disc priest, when I do have to kill the beasts, it's frost, without a question. They die in around the same amount of time, and I have my Ice Barrier, which if hit doesn't translate to blood power. I can also Deep Freeze the little bastards to stick them in place for a few seconds, usually long enough for me to throw down a nova and gtfo.

Math isnt my thing so I come with another question. Now that BrainFreeze works for Frostfire Bolt will we be using it seeing as its a free instant attack that still has a chance to proc all our shiny procs and gets the double crit damage? Does it get the double crit damage, dont have Frostfire yet so havent checked.

Spell per spell, Frostfire does more damage as Frost than Fireball. Frostfire has the fun of 'double dipping' into talents, including any talents that increase frost damage. Couple that with its already ridiculously high multipliers, and that means it'll be around (napkin math guesstimates), 2% or so more DPS than Fireball.

Now that is actually a good question. Frostfirebolt is around 90% as powerful as a frostbolt, compared to around 60% as powerful from Fireball. It's completely possible that it's a DPS increase at this point. DEFINITELY use it instead of Ice Lance for your ghosted charge if you have a brainfreeze up.