I'm flirting with the idea of Disc for tank heals and holy for raid heals ... I've tried Disc Raid heals... not a fan. Love Disc w/ all my heart just not in that role.
So for Raid healing ONLY what needs tweaking on {holy spec}
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Anyone go Holy for raid heals?Follow
For, as you say, raid healing only, I'd take a point out of Test of Faith to fill out Empowered Renew. CoH, Renew, PoM are pretty much all you'll be casting, filling in with Flash Heal, so you want to take the talents that boost those. If you're never ever going to heal a five man or a tank with this spec, you might even make the controversial decision to drop Guardian Spirit.
I'd also think about the Dispel Magic glyph. I don't know how things work with these new-fangled raids but my experience has always been that the raid healers are called on to dispel the most. I love that glyph and have always found it very under-rated. :)
Edit: I'd consider the Flash Heal glyph as well. There are always cases where you'll want a Holy Nova but as Holy those will probably be too few and far between to spend a glyph slot on it.
Edited, Nov 3rd 2009 12:19pm by teacake
I'd also think about the Dispel Magic glyph. I don't know how things work with these new-fangled raids but my experience has always been that the raid healers are called on to dispel the most. I love that glyph and have always found it very under-rated. :)
Edit: I'd consider the Flash Heal glyph as well. There are always cases where you'll want a Holy Nova but as Holy those will probably be too few and far between to spend a glyph slot on it.
Edited, Nov 3rd 2009 12:19pm by teacake
see, this is why we love you lovley Teacake :)
ty :)
ty :)
I agree with the renew talents. One of the last things that I did when I dualed into Holy was relearning to use Renew. It is extremely important to use often in order to keep your Holy Conc procs up. I had many mana problems at first because I failed to use the raid heal spec properly.
If you are doing mainly 10-main raids, the Holy Nova Glyph is ok if you keep a decent situational awareness. In 25-mans, it will quickly become obsolete as your range will be more difficult to maintain to others in your group. You can group in with the tank and melee and sit on the boss' butt to spam it, but it forces you to be somewhere that you don't need to be.
The dispel glyph can be good, but other than Faction Champions, there are not too many uses for it in ToC. And you probably will be mass dispelling as disc for that anyway (if the warlock is one of the mobs, it is well worth the normal dispel glyph instead of the mass dispel glyph so you can avoid his debuff by dispelling selectively). Might be good for Fusion Punch on IC in Uld, especially if you don't have a pally tanking him.
I do use the PoH glyph, even though it only comes in handy at specific times, otherwise lost to overheal.
Get a few of the ones you can switch around. I normally run with CoH and GS. The last one I will switch situationally.
Another thing about the spec. 1/2 Healing Focus will hurt your timing when you need it most. You can also just do 4/5 Spell Warding if you need to grab a point for it. No Inner Focus to macro into Divine Hymn or PoH? <3 Inner Focus. It keeps my PoH crits around 50%-60%, although I am close to losing my T-8 2-pc bonus. D:
If you are doing mainly 10-main raids, the Holy Nova Glyph is ok if you keep a decent situational awareness. In 25-mans, it will quickly become obsolete as your range will be more difficult to maintain to others in your group. You can group in with the tank and melee and sit on the boss' butt to spam it, but it forces you to be somewhere that you don't need to be.
The dispel glyph can be good, but other than Faction Champions, there are not too many uses for it in ToC. And you probably will be mass dispelling as disc for that anyway (if the warlock is one of the mobs, it is well worth the normal dispel glyph instead of the mass dispel glyph so you can avoid his debuff by dispelling selectively). Might be good for Fusion Punch on IC in Uld, especially if you don't have a pally tanking him.
I do use the PoH glyph, even though it only comes in handy at specific times, otherwise lost to overheal.
Get a few of the ones you can switch around. I normally run with CoH and GS. The last one I will switch situationally.
Another thing about the spec. 1/2 Healing Focus will hurt your timing when you need it most. You can also just do 4/5 Spell Warding if you need to grab a point for it. No Inner Focus to macro into Divine Hymn or PoH? <3 Inner Focus. It keeps my PoH crits around 50%-60%, although I am close to losing my T-8 2-pc bonus. D:
ZOMG!!!!! INNAR FOKUZ!
Macro it to your Divine Hymn if you have to.
You forgot PoH - you actually use it quite a lot as part of your 'rotation' as holy now. In fact, probably even more than Renew, which is more of a niche spell if you're really smacking on the raw AOE HPS. It's also your best bet to replace the Holy Nova glyph with. Also, take points out of Blessed Resilience instead. As a wise man on EJ once wrote; with the damage goign around in most current raid encounters, Ãf you're going to heal somebody, he's most likely below 50%. Hence why Test of Faith > Blessed Resilience. I also suspect Blessed Resilience of adding the 1% additional healing before spellpower, though I still have to do a more thorough investigation to find out the truth behind that.
Macro it to your Divine Hymn if you have to.
Quote:
For, as you say, raid healing only, I'd take a point out of Test of Faith to fill out Empowered Renew. CoH, Renew, PoM are pretty much all you'll be casting, filling in with Flash Heal, so you want to take the talents that boost those.
You forgot PoH - you actually use it quite a lot as part of your 'rotation' as holy now. In fact, probably even more than Renew, which is more of a niche spell if you're really smacking on the raw AOE HPS. It's also your best bet to replace the Holy Nova glyph with. Also, take points out of Blessed Resilience instead. As a wise man on EJ once wrote; with the damage goign around in most current raid encounters, Ãf you're going to heal somebody, he's most likely below 50%. Hence why Test of Faith > Blessed Resilience. I also suspect Blessed Resilience of adding the 1% additional healing before spellpower, though I still have to do a more thorough investigation to find out the truth behind that.
so something more like {THIS}
No? What is that? Something more like this.
ahh ok I see :)
Got to tank heal voa 10/25 oxy 10/25 today
so maybe i'll try raid heals with that spec on uld/ toc 10 tomorrow :)
thanks for putting up with my ignorance mozz :)
Got to tank heal voa 10/25 oxy 10/25 today
so maybe i'll try raid heals with that spec on uld/ toc 10 tomorrow :)
thanks for putting up with my ignorance mozz :)
No worries, you're really not that bad =P. As for tank healing though; that's where you should go disc - I thought you had that as your mainspec?
Mozared wrote:
ZOMG!!!!! INNAR FOKUZ!
Macro it to your Divine Hymn if you have to.
You forgot PoH - you actually use it quite a lot as part of your 'rotation' as holy now. In fact, probably even more than Renew, which is more of a niche spell if you're really smacking on the raw AOE HPS. It's also your best bet to replace the Holy Nova glyph with. Also, take points out of Blessed Resilience instead. As a wise man on EJ once wrote; with the damage goign around in most current raid encounters, Ãf you're going to heal somebody, he's most likely below 50%. Hence why Test of Faith > Blessed Resilience. I also suspect Blessed Resilience of adding the 1% additional healing before spellpower, though I still have to do a more thorough investigation to find out the truth behind that.
Macro it to your Divine Hymn if you have to.
Quote:
For, as you say, raid healing only, I'd take a point out of Test of Faith to fill out Empowered Renew. CoH, Renew, PoM are pretty much all you'll be casting, filling in with Flash Heal, so you want to take the talents that boost those.
You forgot PoH - you actually use it quite a lot as part of your 'rotation' as holy now. In fact, probably even more than Renew, which is more of a niche spell if you're really smacking on the raw AOE HPS. It's also your best bet to replace the Holy Nova glyph with. Also, take points out of Blessed Resilience instead. As a wise man on EJ once wrote; with the damage goign around in most current raid encounters, Ãf you're going to heal somebody, he's most likely below 50%. Hence why Test of Faith > Blessed Resilience. I also suspect Blessed Resilience of adding the 1% additional healing before spellpower, though I still have to do a more thorough investigation to find out the truth behind that.
Dang it, I just got back in the habit of using Renew... >_<
I see your point though, Renew gets tossed to the curb when real healing is required.
It still is needed for your Holy Conc procs from time to time. I try to setup CoH with a Renew, targetting that lowest health person with Renew and a quick CoH on top of it. Same with PoH (I hate when my target dies midcast, it usually causes one or two more deaths due to time lost). Ever since I started doing that, I have noticed a marked improvement on my mana regen. Since my Fheal crit rate is way low (probably less than 50% of them are even capable of critting) and Binding Heal gets a bit sidestepped in favor of PoH (even though BH is by far the best chance to get Holy Conc procs), I find myself actually favoring Renews over other fillers until I get a HC proc.
If mana is no problem, then points from Holy Conc can be reallocated elsewhere. As for myself, I still need those procs.
I wouldn't be surprised if Blessed Resilience boosted the coefficients of the spells by the percentage. The way the description is worded is rather cryptic compared to the other talents.
And Test of Faith? Think of it this way. Would you like a trinket that autoprocced 250 SP* for heals on targets that require it most? Well for 3 talent points you can have it with no cd and it scales with you. You don't even have to equip it, you can save that slot for a brewmaiden who will toss you steins of beer between heals. =)
*Just pulling that number out of the air. I dont really know what 12% equates to, but you get the picture.
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Dang it, I just got back in the habit of using Renew... >_<
I see your point though, Renew gets tossed to the curb when real healing is required.
I see your point though, Renew gets tossed to the curb when real healing is required.
Don't fret =P. In a way, Renew is the lifeblood of the holy priest. Come to think of it, I'd go as far as to say it is the holy priests' PW:S. When I'm disc, I shield when I want to prevent damage coming up in the next 10 seconds, or when I want to "not worry about that person for a moment". Renew as holy has exactly the same function, right up to the fact that it provides a small (1Kish) heal to top people off and while instant do not actually fill up the target's health bar.
The best fight to test a holy priest on is Val'kyr twins (10 or 25, hardmode or not, take your pick), and I'm using it as a baseline for what I'm saying here right now. It's a fight in which being disc simply sucks (really, everytime I forget to spec disc I just spend the entire fight casting PW:S) and one where the raw AOE healing power of holy comes to it's right really well. Because of this it's also a good place to challenge yourself or test new trials. Is Prayer of Mending up? How much Serendipity do I have? Can I PoH? Is CoH perhaps of cooldown? What's my mana looking like - time to Shadowfiend yet? Get them all right and I guarantee you'll top the meters. Incidentally, I always beat the other holy priest in my guild due to the simple facts that he uses Renew and doesn't keep Prayer of Mending up whereas I Flash Heal instead and have ProM permanently on cooldown. Which is what leads me to say that for holy's raw AOE throughput, Renew is off the table.
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And Test of Faith? Think of it this way. Would you like a trinket that autoprocced 250 SP* for heals on targets that require it most? Well for 3 talent points you can have it with no cd and it scales with you. You don't even have to equip it, you can save that slot for a brewmaiden who will toss you steins of beer between heals. =)
*Just pulling that number out of the air. I dont really know what 12% equates to, but you get the picture.
*Just pulling that number out of the air. I dont really know what 12% equates to, but you get the picture.
As for that... I think my Flash Heal heals for around 5K, currently - 12% would equate to roughly 520 extra healing, which, depending on the spell, is between 520 and 1K extra spellpower. I could be mistaken though, seeing that high numbers pop up make me doubt my calculations - it can't be *that* good of a talent, can it?
Have you ever attempted to raid heal as disc? Depending on the fight its not that bad
With rapture procs you can keep PoH going at a steady pace and shields give your druids enough time be OP
No going to say its better, holy is the clear winner, but disc is fun on raid heals too
With rapture procs you can keep PoH going at a steady pace and shields give your druids enough time be OP
No going to say its better, holy is the clear winner, but disc is fun on raid heals too
Oh, I know that Smoop, it's just that on specific fights disc simply won't cut it. I've done plenty of disc raid healing, but specifically for fights like the Val'kyr Twins I prefer being holy because it's A) more fun and B) more effective. I don't think 10-man hardmode Val'kyr Twins is possible with a disc raid healer if you 2-man heal it.
Just got to the twins on heroic, and after a couple attempts as disc, I switched over to Holy. The difference was quite noticeable. With Holy, I felt I was actually contributing rather than just postponing the inevitable. We were actually 3-manning it with pally, priesty and tree... y, but still, the tank spikes were not as bad as I thought they would be. I used Penance more on the "ballerinas" who broke the wrong bubbles. Did not miss it very much when I switched to Holy for that fight.
Didn't squash the bug, but got in a few attempts before we called it.
Didn't squash the bug, but got in a few attempts before we called it.
On the flipside Try, I take it's that 10-man? Since a lot also depends on your fellow healers there. Apperantly the other disc priest in my guild and our main paladin healer 2-man healed it. It was what we call a pants-kill (where we're wiping horribly but manage to get the boss down anyway with 2 or 3 people up) and the paladin said the priest was fairly useless, but I guess it can be done. Then again, that paladin is wicked sick and me a druid from our guild and me are the only players on the server that I've ever seen outhealing him.
Yep, 10 man. It was our first genuine attempt at the heroic and brought an extra healer to give us some breathing room to learn. I barely broke a sweat before we got to the twins, but felt I could contribute more as holy after we took a couple wipes. The night before, our shaman healer and I as disc healed the normal 10-man and more times than not were ending fights with full or close to full mana bars, so everyone seems to be past the "getting to know you" phase.
Now we are learning to kite the spider dude, there's where the fun begins. I probably will stay holy for that for B&S booster shots. I need to be a better toreador with anub though. >.<
Now we are learning to kite the spider dude, there's where the fun begins. I probably will stay holy for that for B&S booster shots. I need to be a better toreador with anub though. >.<
Funnily enough, for Anub, holy also rocks. The idea of shields not giving Anub health back in phase 3 is alluring but you simply won't have the time to shield up everyone. When I did that fight as holy it was just PoH spamming. The second I stopped doing that at least 3 people died. So aye, you'll probably need holy in p3 anyway which gives you room for B&S during chasephase.
To be honest, there are better ways of dealing with phase 3 of annub, splitting up shamans with healing stream totem, shadow priests with VE and jol will adequately heal pretty much the entire raid. The only ones you have to heal really are the people with penetrating cold and the tanks.
Not on heroic, I can tell you that. If I were to stop PoH-spamming at even one point during that fight, half the raid would die. That amount of damage isn't something VE and a healing stream totem are going to outheal.
on heroic 25 man a healing stream totem is enough to keep a party up, 100% certain, and thats with him leeching 20% instead of 10%.
Edit, checked with our shamans, thats an unglyphed healing stream totem.
Edited, Nov 8th 2009 7:35pm by thegreatmothra
Edit, checked with our shamans, thats an unglyphed healing stream totem.
Edited, Nov 8th 2009 7:35pm by thegreatmothra
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the paladin said the priest was fairly useless
7k+ shields fully absorbed every GCD is far from useless
(keeping arcane mages in mana on top of the healing)
renewed hope near 100% uptime
PoM fully consumed every cooldown is far from useless
Paladins do good on that fight just as aoe healers do too. I would really like to see a WMO of that fight before I said the disc priest is useless.
Now you can argue bubbling everyone and tossing PoM while soaking balls isn't a fun style of play, but on that fight it is so far from useless.
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more times than not were ending fights with full or close to full mana bars
rapture said whats up.
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B&S during chase phase.
nice bonus, for the learning phase. But the kiting isn't even the hardest part of that phase for us, getting people to kill the adds or move from the enraged seems to be for my guild.
Depends on your group make up for p3. I have always done it with a ret + shaman or 2 shamans so its really really easy. With paladin and disc healing you just bubble the pen cold targets and let the jol/stream heal people. Tossing 2 shields and then 2 more on the tanks, maybe flash someone if they need *need* it. I've never attempted 25H but I would assume that this would stay viable.
I've also healed it as disc druid where I was on the tanks and that was a much different game. I really struggled with throughput and even had to switch to a spec that included a faster gheal for that fight because I just didnt have enough.
Maybe I haven't given holy enough testing, but there isn't a single fight in togc that I even thought about needing to.
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on heroic 25 man a healing stream totem is enough to keep a party up, 100% certain, and thats with him leeching 20% instead of 10%.
Edit, checked with our shamans, thats an unglyphed healing stream totem.
Edit, checked with our shamans, thats an unglyphed healing stream totem.
I guess I'll have to do the fight again. I'm positive the AOE damage was severe (not something a totem) could keep up, but on the other side, I guess I might've simply been keeping the raid on too much hit points.
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7k+ shields fully absorbed every GCD is far from useless
(keeping arcane mages in mana on top of the healing)
renewed hope near 100% uptime
PoM fully consumed every cooldown is far from useless
Paladins do good on that fight just as aoe healers do too. I would really like to see a WMO of that fight before I said the disc priest is useless.
Now you can argue bubbling everyone and tossing PoM while soaking balls isn't a fun style of play, but on that fight it is so far from useless.
(keeping arcane mages in mana on top of the healing)
renewed hope near 100% uptime
PoM fully consumed every cooldown is far from useless
Paladins do good on that fight just as aoe healers do too. I would really like to see a WMO of that fight before I said the disc priest is useless.
Now you can argue bubbling everyone and tossing PoM while soaking balls isn't a fun style of play, but on that fight it is so far from useless.
It is useless when compared to the constant 13.000 HPS a holy priest could keep up. A healer is never completely useless, of course, but when there's insane amounts of constant raid damage doing on having a disc priest taking more than 10 seconds to shield the entire raid (something he can only do every 30 seconds) is kind of laughable to having a holy priest (or other raid healer, for that matter) healing 6-8K on half the raid every 3 seconds.
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nice bonus, for the learning phase. But the kiting isn't even the hardest part of that phase for us, getting people to kill the adds or move from the enraged seems to be for my guild.
Depends on your group make up for p3. I have always done it with a ret + shaman or 2 shamans so its really really easy. With paladin and disc healing you just bubble the pen cold targets and let the jol/stream heal people. Tossing 2 shields and then 2 more on the tanks, maybe flash someone if they need *need* it. I've never attempted 25H but I would assume that this would stay viable.
I've also healed it as disc druid where I was on the tanks and that was a much different game. I really struggled with throughput and even had to switch to a spec that included a faster gheal for that fight because I just didnt have enough.
Maybe I haven't given holy enough testing, but there isn't a single fight in togc that I even thought about needing to.
Depends on your group make up for p3. I have always done it with a ret + shaman or 2 shamans so its really really easy. With paladin and disc healing you just bubble the pen cold targets and let the jol/stream heal people. Tossing 2 shields and then 2 more on the tanks, maybe flash someone if they need *need* it. I've never attempted 25H but I would assume that this would stay viable.
I've also healed it as disc druid where I was on the tanks and that was a much different game. I really struggled with throughput and even had to switch to a spec that included a faster gheal for that fight because I just didnt have enough.
Maybe I haven't given holy enough testing, but there isn't a single fight in togc that I even thought about needing to.
If you absolutely insist, have a great partner and decent gear, I reckon you can 2-man heal at least TotGC 10-man as disc. Whether it's easy is another question, though. There are some fights that are without a doubt a lot easier as holy and rely less on your partner carrying you.
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