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I have been reading and looking through posts and I geuss I am lost. Sorry to regurgitate a question but here it goes. What is the hit cap for Fire Mages and what is the Cap for Arcane? Your help would be greatly appreciated. I am trying to decide wether or not to go Fire or Arcane when I hit 80. I will be there in about a week and I want to be able to contribute to a raid after gearing myself through some heroics and ToC stuff. Just wanted to determine the best spec for my raid so I can gear appropriately. We dont have alot of Mages who run with us and no Boomkin. Occasionally a Shadow Priest and Occasionally a Destro Warlock. I was thinking Fire but I am still not sure. Anyways thanks for the help ahead of time. Please dont Flame me. =)
Hit cap is always 17% against a boss (you + 3 levels)
If you fully talent for hit in arcane you save 6% (arcane focus + elemental precision). If you consistently have an spriest/boomkin to put up the 3% hit buff, you save yourself an additional 3% giving you 9% (meaning you only need 8% to be capped in a raid).
For fireball spec there are no hit talents to grab, so you need 17% to be capped (or 14% if you have non-fail boomkin/spriests who don't always die and leave you 3% short).
Fireball is truly for people who are better geared than fresh-80s. I would go with either Frostfiire (where you can pick up 3% hit from Elemental Precision) or Arcane because they scale differently and easier for lower-geared players.
I feel this post summarizes it pretty well:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=7;mid=1235965779274555017;page=1;howmany=50#m1235966020277135443
Edited, Nov 2nd 2009 12:36pm by Anobix
If you fully talent for hit in arcane you save 6% (arcane focus + elemental precision). If you consistently have an spriest/boomkin to put up the 3% hit buff, you save yourself an additional 3% giving you 9% (meaning you only need 8% to be capped in a raid).
For fireball spec there are no hit talents to grab, so you need 17% to be capped (or 14% if you have non-fail boomkin/spriests who don't always die and leave you 3% short).
Fireball is truly for people who are better geared than fresh-80s. I would go with either Frostfiire (where you can pick up 3% hit from Elemental Precision) or Arcane because they scale differently and easier for lower-geared players.
I feel this post summarizes it pretty well:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=7;mid=1235965779274555017;page=1;howmany=50#m1235966020277135443
Edited, Nov 2nd 2009 12:36pm by Anobix
Thank you for the help. I think I will start off Arcane until I get better gear and then go Fire. I beleive what Ive read saays that Arcane out DPS's FFB If I am wrong please correct me. =)
Yes it does. Also, with the changes to arcane in the 3.2.2 patch, arcane and fire are about equal now in terms of potential DPS. There are certain fights where one really outshines the other of course, so if you want you could always dual spec arcane and fire once you get high enough hit rating for fire and switch back and forth.
Personally I hate Arcane. I've tried Arcane, but realy dont like the rotation with arcane (haha dont ask me why, it just is for me)
So I did FFS-spec untill I had enuf Hit to make it Fire-spec.
And looooving the Fire-spec (also FFS), although ur damage depends on your proccing the Hotstreak. But being very well geared these days I do a smashing 76% crit with my fireballs weeeee
Also keep in mind with Alliance, if u got a Dranae in ur group, that makes another 1% free hitrate.
So I did FFS-spec untill I had enuf Hit to make it Fire-spec.
And looooving the Fire-spec (also FFS), although ur damage depends on your proccing the Hotstreak. But being very well geared these days I do a smashing 76% crit with my fireballs weeeee
Also keep in mind with Alliance, if u got a Dranae in ur group, that makes another 1% free hitrate.
What is FFS?
lol, ur right Anobix, I do that all the time.... (Frost-Fire-Spec)
FFS, i mean FFB ofc!!
FFS= For F*ck Sake? lol
FFS, i mean FFB ofc!!
FFS= For F*ck Sake? lol
Ahh okay, I figured that's what it was, but maybe I missed some crazy acronym at some point!
To add on to a previous comment...
Arcane is not Equal to Fire. It far surpasses it.
Arcane lets you remove ALL your +hit gear basically. Right now I have a paltry 9.95% hit. Now add in Draenei(5 per raid, always should have this) that's 10.95% Now add in 6% talents, 16.95%. Close enough to 17%.
This lets me focus 100% on SP/Haste. Right now, as an alt char with zero TotC25 runs, I have 2559 SP, 26.73% Crit, and 600 Haste with NO buffs. In raids my Arcane Blast crit % is 75% and on Jaraxxus I have hit 33k crits with 14k Missiles.
Mind you this is my ALT, not even my main. I can only imagine if this was my TotC25/TotGC10 char...
Fire, however, is not only MASSIVELY dependent on Hit, it just does not perform equally. A few months ago I did Uld10 for fun, we had a 2750 scored Mage, while I was only 2380. I beat him by 500 DPS and he is a very good mage(so it was not lack of skill). 100% Spec based, I beat him even with inferior gear.
Now that I have good gear (2600 score) I have not been out DPS'd on any boss except Twins because I lag so badly with orbs. Even then I'm 2nd or 3rd.
Go Arcane. Like it or not, if you intend to bring the best to raids, it's the way to go. If you play for "fun not min/max" then do whatever you want :) Just want to point out, not equal anymore.
Arcane is not Equal to Fire. It far surpasses it.
Arcane lets you remove ALL your +hit gear basically. Right now I have a paltry 9.95% hit. Now add in Draenei(5 per raid, always should have this) that's 10.95% Now add in 6% talents, 16.95%. Close enough to 17%.
This lets me focus 100% on SP/Haste. Right now, as an alt char with zero TotC25 runs, I have 2559 SP, 26.73% Crit, and 600 Haste with NO buffs. In raids my Arcane Blast crit % is 75% and on Jaraxxus I have hit 33k crits with 14k Missiles.
Mind you this is my ALT, not even my main. I can only imagine if this was my TotC25/TotGC10 char...
Fire, however, is not only MASSIVELY dependent on Hit, it just does not perform equally. A few months ago I did Uld10 for fun, we had a 2750 scored Mage, while I was only 2380. I beat him by 500 DPS and he is a very good mage(so it was not lack of skill). 100% Spec based, I beat him even with inferior gear.
Now that I have good gear (2600 score) I have not been out DPS'd on any boss except Twins because I lag so badly with orbs. Even then I'm 2nd or 3rd.
Go Arcane. Like it or not, if you intend to bring the best to raids, it's the way to go. If you play for "fun not min/max" then do whatever you want :) Just want to point out, not equal anymore.
Sarion, I know you've tried out the Incanter's Absorption spec and you said you didn't care for it. My gear score is right about where yours is, and last week I hit 10k DPS on twins in 10 man. That's with IA AND going after orbs when I see them. I beat out the next highest DPS by over 4k (a hunter in our guild who has a higher gear score than me by about 50 points). It may not be all that worthwhile on every fight, but the ones that do either fire/light dmg or frost dmg, it really shines if you use it right.
SarionBelmont wrote:
To add on to a previous comment...
Arcane is not Equal to Fire. It far surpasses it.
Arcane lets you remove ALL your +hit gear basically. Right now I have a paltry 9.95% hit. Now add in Draenei(5 per raid, always should have this) that's 10.95% Now add in 6% talents, 16.95%. Close enough to 17%.
This lets me focus 100% on SP/Haste. Right now, as an alt char with zero TotC25 runs, I have 2559 SP, 26.73% Crit, and 600 Haste with NO buffs. In raids my Arcane Blast crit % is 75% and on Jaraxxus I have hit 33k crits with 14k Missiles.
Mind you this is my ALT, not even my main. I can only imagine if this was my TotC25/TotGC10 char...
Fire, however, is not only MASSIVELY dependent on Hit, it just does not perform equally. A few months ago I did Uld10 for fun, we had a 2750 scored Mage, while I was only 2380. I beat him by 500 DPS and he is a very good mage(so it was not lack of skill). 100% Spec based, I beat him even with inferior gear.
Now that I have good gear (2600 score) I have not been out DPS'd on any boss except Twins because I lag so badly with orbs. Even then I'm 2nd or 3rd.
Go Arcane. Like it or not, if you intend to bring the best to raids, it's the way to go. If you play for "fun not min/max" then do whatever you want :) Just want to point out, not equal anymore.
Arcane is not Equal to Fire. It far surpasses it.
Arcane lets you remove ALL your +hit gear basically. Right now I have a paltry 9.95% hit. Now add in Draenei(5 per raid, always should have this) that's 10.95% Now add in 6% talents, 16.95%. Close enough to 17%.
This lets me focus 100% on SP/Haste. Right now, as an alt char with zero TotC25 runs, I have 2559 SP, 26.73% Crit, and 600 Haste with NO buffs. In raids my Arcane Blast crit % is 75% and on Jaraxxus I have hit 33k crits with 14k Missiles.
Mind you this is my ALT, not even my main. I can only imagine if this was my TotC25/TotGC10 char...
Fire, however, is not only MASSIVELY dependent on Hit, it just does not perform equally. A few months ago I did Uld10 for fun, we had a 2750 scored Mage, while I was only 2380. I beat him by 500 DPS and he is a very good mage(so it was not lack of skill). 100% Spec based, I beat him even with inferior gear.
Now that I have good gear (2600 score) I have not been out DPS'd on any boss except Twins because I lag so badly with orbs. Even then I'm 2nd or 3rd.
Go Arcane. Like it or not, if you intend to bring the best to raids, it's the way to go. If you play for "fun not min/max" then do whatever you want :) Just want to point out, not equal anymore.
Grats on having someone in your raid that doesn't fail at putting up scorch or having a warlock gimp their dps by 1k+ to be able to go arcane :-(. I'm pretty much always fire to keep up scorch... still perform top1-3 though in most fights.
Ouch Anobix D: Hate being Scorch bish lol.
And that's good Pigtails. I did my best at 11k DPS on Twins, but that was EVERYTHING going my way. I was still #2 :/ Our main Mage does 13k on Twins, followed by on average a 10k and rest do 8-9k.
I hate "boost" fights :/ I did do 6.5k on Anub though! :D
And that's good Pigtails. I did my best at 11k DPS on Twins, but that was EVERYTHING going my way. I was still #2 :/ Our main Mage does 13k on Twins, followed by on average a 10k and rest do 8-9k.
I hate "boost" fights :/ I did do 6.5k on Anub though! :D
Ok Sarion, you convinced me to try Arcane again...
If I check wow-heroes I see almost all mages with best gear (read: best guilds) playing Arcane, so it must be a good thing to do, and I got some real decent gear. Hit 9k with fire on Twins (nr 1 dmg on that boss), but will give it a go on Arcane, see what will happen. Would be cool to hit 12k or more ^^
I guess it's on to the training dummy's in IF to get my rotation right on Arcane, still seem to fail/suck on that...
If I check wow-heroes I see almost all mages with best gear (read: best guilds) playing Arcane, so it must be a good thing to do, and I got some real decent gear. Hit 9k with fire on Twins (nr 1 dmg on that boss), but will give it a go on Arcane, see what will happen. Would be cool to hit 12k or more ^^
I guess it's on to the training dummy's in IF to get my rotation right on Arcane, still seem to fail/suck on that...
It's cake.
Personally I have enough Mana to ONLY use ABlast and Missile Barrage. I refuse to use Arcane Missiles without proc, as you LOSE DPS and Arcane Barrage... may as well spec out of it. I only use it while running.
Basically: Arcane Blast x4. If MBarrage procs, use it. IF not, keep ABlast until it does. If you have Mana issues, then just ABlastx4 then Missiles, regardless of proc.
General idea is 10% hit, then focus SP > Haste > Crit.
Glyph Blast/Missiles/Molten Armor
Edited, Nov 13th 2009 2:12pm by SarionBelmont
Personally I have enough Mana to ONLY use ABlast and Missile Barrage. I refuse to use Arcane Missiles without proc, as you LOSE DPS and Arcane Barrage... may as well spec out of it. I only use it while running.
Basically: Arcane Blast x4. If MBarrage procs, use it. IF not, keep ABlast until it does. If you have Mana issues, then just ABlastx4 then Missiles, regardless of proc.
General idea is 10% hit, then focus SP > Haste > Crit.
Glyph Blast/Missiles/Molten Armor
Edited, Nov 13th 2009 2:12pm by SarionBelmont
Umm, Sarion, arcane blast stacks to 4. You are giving up a lot of dps if you are only using on 3
And you don't need 10% hit either. 
The hit cap on arcane is 11% or 8% with Moonkin or Shadow Priest. But yeah, if you can handle a fire rotation, you can handle Arcane. It's much easier.
The hit cap on arcane is 11% or 8% with Moonkin or Shadow Priest. But yeah, if you can handle a fire rotation, you can handle Arcane. It's much easier.OMG weeee, me like Arcane better now hehe....
Tried it yesterday in ToC-10 normal. Topped damage eeesy now :) And nuking the Twins with more than 10k dps. (nr 2 (imba hunter)on list had 6800 dps) My guildy's on Teamspeak were suprised by my unstoppable giggle :D Can't wait till tonights 25 man-run...
Btw, is their a addon for Arcane mage to see eesy when MBarrage procs, so I dont have to watch my avatar-bufflist all the time to see if it's proccing?
Soo happy I tried this Arcane, dunno what stopped me all this time.... (well, I do love being Fire-Mage though)
Tried it yesterday in ToC-10 normal. Topped damage eeesy now :) And nuking the Twins with more than 10k dps. (nr 2 (imba hunter)on list had 6800 dps) My guildy's on Teamspeak were suprised by my unstoppable giggle :D Can't wait till tonights 25 man-run...
Btw, is their a addon for Arcane mage to see eesy when MBarrage procs, so I dont have to watch my avatar-bufflist all the time to see if it's proccing?
Soo happy I tried this Arcane, dunno what stopped me all this time.... (well, I do love being Fire-Mage though)
Yeah, there's a few out there that do that. Scorchio 2 tracks mage specific procs and debuffs on targets, where as Class Timers does it for all classes. Mage Nuggets does it as well. I prefer using Mage Nuggets for other reasons though (like the Spell Steal monitor), and I use Scorchio 2/Class Timers for tracking the Missile Barrage procs and also keeping track of my Arcane Blast debuff. I'd honestly prefer to use Class Timers instead of Scorchio, but it irks me that the add on author doesn't keep it updated on WoW Interface or Curse.
I checked WoW Ace a little bit ago, and Class Timers is up to date there.
Edited, Nov 12th 2009 1:33pm by PigtailsOfDoom
I checked WoW Ace a little bit ago, and Class Timers is up to date there.
Edited, Nov 12th 2009 1:33pm by PigtailsOfDoom
WooT ^^
Got it all sorted, and loving the Magenugget-addon :D (hehe like the little Spellpower, crit and hit-list, especially when it says about my Hitrate: Capped! ^^)
And nuked the twins with 11,5k dmg yesterday on 25-man, finally got the feeling I nailed it :) My max dmg with Fire was 9k dmg...
Thanks for the advises guys, changing to Arcane changed my dmg from place 5 or 6 to place 1 or 2!
Edited, Nov 13th 2009 3:27am by noalala
Got it all sorted, and loving the Magenugget-addon :D (hehe like the little Spellpower, crit and hit-list, especially when it says about my Hitrate: Capped! ^^)
And nuked the twins with 11,5k dmg yesterday on 25-man, finally got the feeling I nailed it :) My max dmg with Fire was 9k dmg...
Thanks for the advises guys, changing to Arcane changed my dmg from place 5 or 6 to place 1 or 2!
Edited, Nov 13th 2009 3:27am by noalala
Yeah, arcane mages with incanter's absorption is seriously broken for Twins, lol. It's freaking awesome. That's awesome you did so great! I haven't quite hit as high as you yet, my record is about 10.5k I think. I'm glad you like Mage Nuggets too, I love it!
I do more dmg than you, just becuz I got better gear :P
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Trollbane&n=Nheo
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Trollbane&n=Nheo
Anobix the Brilliant wrote:
Umm, Sarion, arcane blast stacks to 4. You are giving up a lot of dps if you are only using on 3
My mistake. Old habits and all. Yes, 4 stacks. Fixed the post.
PigtailsOfDoom the Eccentric wrote:
And you don't need 10% hit either. The hit cap on arcane is 11% or 8% with Moonkin or Shadow Priest. But yeah, if you can handle a fire rotation, you can handle Arcane. It's much easier.
The hit cap on arcane is 11% or 8% with Moonkin or Shadow Priest. But yeah, if you can handle a fire rotation, you can handle Arcane. It's much easier.Sorry again, habits. If you're not a stinky HORDE and you're a raid, you only need 10% due to the wonderful Draenei racial :)
Us Allies need only 10%.
Horde need 11%
If you have a solid guild of diversity you'd need only 7%/8%.
I thought the Draenei racial only worked within groups, making the RL organize the groups so that you have at least one Dranei per group? I haven't raided since BC came out so I don't really know, but I thought that's what I had read.
Yes, 1 Draenei per group. But with Shaman still being Draenei only and being the most awesome looking Ally... 5 per raid is pretty standard :D
Ehh, pretty sure it's only 1 Dranei needed per raid (since WoTL), not per group (unless u ment the same^^)
And Shadowpries also gives 2% free hit with a spell he's got.
So:
17% hit needed on bosses 4 or more lvl's higher than urself.
-6% cuz of own talents (Arcane only)
-1% cuz of dranei (alliance only)
-2% cuz of Shadow Priest's spell (wich should be included in his/her rotation)
so that leaves 8% hit for Alliance, 9% for Horde.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Edited, Dec 1st 2009 10:32am by noalala
Edited, Dec 1st 2009 10:32am by noalala
And Shadowpries also gives 2% free hit with a spell he's got.
So:
17% hit needed on bosses 4 or more lvl's higher than urself.
-6% cuz of own talents (Arcane only)
-1% cuz of dranei (alliance only)
-2% cuz of Shadow Priest's spell (wich should be included in his/her rotation)
so that leaves 8% hit for Alliance, 9% for Horde.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Edited, Dec 1st 2009 10:32am by noalala
Edited, Dec 1st 2009 10:32am by noalala
noalala wrote:
Ehh, pretty sure it's only 1 Dranei needed per raid (since WoTL), not per group (unless u ment the same^^)
And Shadowpries also gives 2% free hit with a spell he's got.
So:
17% hit needed on bosses 4 or more lvl's higher than urself.
-6% cuz of own talents (Arcane only)
-1% cuz of dranei (alliance only)
-2% cuz of Shadow Priest's spell (wich should be included in his/her rotation)
so that leaves 8% hit for Alliance, 9% for Horde.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Edited, Dec 1st 2009 10:32am by noalala
Edited, Dec 1st 2009 10:32am by noalala
And Shadowpries also gives 2% free hit with a spell he's got.
So:
17% hit needed on bosses 4 or more lvl's higher than urself.
-6% cuz of own talents (Arcane only)
-1% cuz of dranei (alliance only)
-2% cuz of Shadow Priest's spell (wich should be included in his/her rotation)
so that leaves 8% hit for Alliance, 9% for Horde.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Edited, Dec 1st 2009 10:32am by noalala
Edited, Dec 1st 2009 10:32am by noalala
(boomkin) imp faire fight/spriest hit talent (escapes me right now) is 3%. The numbers are all covered in TGMPE.
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