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Shadow Buffed in build 10571Follow

#1 Oct 13 2009 at 7:05 PM Rating: Excellent
MMO-Champ came out with the latest build, which included some rather major changes for Shadow:

Quote:

Shadow

* Improved Devouring Plague: This spell now deals 10/20/30% of its total periodic effect instantly, up from 5/10/15%.
* Shadowform: This talent also now causes Devouring Plague, Shadow Word: Pain, and Vampiric Touch to benefit from haste. Both the period length and the duration of these spells will be reduced by haste. In addition, the mana cost has been reduced from 32% to 13% of base mana.
* Vampiric Embrace: This ability is now provides a 30-minute buff that cannot be dispelled, instead of a target debuff.

Glyphs

* Glyph of Mind Flay now Increases the damage done by your Mind Flay spell by 10% when your target is afflicted with Shadow Word: Pain.
* Glyph of Shadow Word: Pain changed to - The periodic damage ticks of your Shadow Word: Pain spell restore 1% of your base mana.
* Glyph of Shadow now increase your spell power by 30% of your spirit for 10 sec. (Up from 10%)


Source.

This is going to be awesome. But honestly, I foresee a nerf on the Glyph of SW:P. 1% every three seconds (less, with the haste change) just seems like too much. That's WAY more than replenishment, and spriest aren't having mana issues anyways. Maybe it'll let us drop it in favor of... um... I'm not sure, actually. We don't have a lot of options.

Edited, Oct 13th 2009 10:32pm by IDrownFish
#2 Oct 13 2009 at 10:31 PM Rating: Decent
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4,684 posts
Quote:
* Shadowform: This talent also now causes Devouring Plague, Shadow Word: Pain, and Vampiric Touch to benefit from haste. Both the period length and the duration of these spells will be reduced by haste. In addition, the mana cost has been reduced from 32% to 13% of base mana.

"Hate to say I told you so"? They're doing it a lot earlier than I had expected though. On the flipside, all these changes will probably get shadow back in league post-Ulduar.

Quote:
This is going to be awesome. But honestly, I foresee a nerf on the Glyph of SW:P. 1% every three seconds (less, with the haste change) just seems like too much. That's WAY more than replenishment, ...

No, it's not. You missed the keyword "base" in "base mana". Your base mana is the amount of mana you have before at all modified by talents, stats, enchants or other effects. A priests' base mana at level 80 is 3863, therefore the glyph will give you approximatly 39 mana back per 3 seconds. Which is about 60-70 mp5. Which is the equivalent of a decent Ulduar 10/25 trinket. This glyph will be a lot of help to new shadow priests who still have mana problems, though I don't see spriests using them in the real end-game content when their mana and mana regeneration skyrockets anyway.
#3 Oct 14 2009 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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679 posts
I'm very very happy with these changes. The haste scaling should fix a lot of issues we've been experiencing for a while now.
#4 Oct 14 2009 at 6:46 AM Rating: Good
Mozared wrote:
Quote:
This is going to be awesome. But honestly, I foresee a nerf on the Glyph of SW:P. 1% every three seconds (less, with the haste change) just seems like too much. That's WAY more than replenishment, ...

No, it's not. You missed the keyword "base" in "base mana". Your base mana is the amount of mana you have before at all modified by talents, stats, enchants or other effects. A priests' base mana at level 80 is 3863, therefore the glyph will give you approximatly 39 mana back per 3 seconds. Which is about 60-70 mp5. Which is the equivalent of a decent Ulduar 10/25 trinket. This glyph will be a lot of help to new shadow priests who still have mana problems, though I don't see spriests using them in the real end-game content when their mana and mana regeneration skyrockets anyway.


D'oh. I'm an idiot.
#5 Oct 14 2009 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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717 posts
Ok, so now that haste will affect all dots, Shadow will get their dots scaled just like the direct damage abilities. During a BL/Hero, can you see a problem keeping dots up and getting off a MF tic to refresh SW:P every 12.6 seconds? That's even without any additional haste from gear. Keep in mind that the other dots will be falling off early as well.

I think we will see a new skillset needing to be developed for Shadow. Instead of a somewhat easy priority system, Shadow's spell selection will become a a bit more varied. Haste certainly will jump up as an itemization priority. With different types of haste procs, Shadow casting will require a bit more attention instead of relying on that time awareness that you develop regarding dot times.
#6 Oct 14 2009 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
Keeping up SW:P won't be a problem, I think, haste or no haste. Sure, it'll be running out rather quickly with a Butt Lust/Heroism going, but that doesn't mean we won't be doing at least one MF every 5 seconds or so. Even with VT and DP dropping rather quickly, we shouldn't have any problem cramming in a few MFs between MBs.

All in all, I think this will be a fun and needed change. This is probably what's going to tip the scales between Haste vs Crit in Haste's favor.

Now I just have to figure out what to replace Glyph of SW:P with... I guess Glyph of SW:D is the best option...
#7 Oct 14 2009 at 10:45 PM Rating: Decent
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4,684 posts
In regards to Bloodlust, here's the fine line between realizing the use of 'a rotation' and 'dealing additional damage'. What you're saying is that it might be extraordinarily hard to keep your normal rotation going if everything scales up 30% with Bloodlust, but what you're forgetting is that keeping up the normal rotation at a 30-50% increased speed would make a spriest jump enourmously in DPS. Since Bloodlust adds DPS anyway, it (depending on your class and gear) might not matter if you have to shave off your rotation. Your normal rotation is what would be optimal, but since it isn't, it's not. I realize how weird this sounds, but all I'm trying to say is that as long as Bloodlust increases your DPS by an amount roughly equal to how it increases the DPS of the other classes, it's purpose is served. Complaining about not being able to keep your rotation going while gaining a haste boost is like complaining that there's a cooldown on Mind Blast seeing as if there weren't, a Mind Blast > Mind Blast > Mind Blast etc rotation would be the most optimal for DPS.

Basically, the message I'm trying to convey is that as your haste goes up (to obscene levels with Bloodlust), there's a good possibility that you might need an alternative rotation for optimal DPS. We simply don't encounter a situation like this very often because no matter what you stack (crit, int, spellpower), your rotation itself generally doesn't change (and haste was never stacked for any class before this change). Be sure to not let the idea of "having a rotation you need to keep going" sink in over the main sentiment which is "I need to deal as much damage as possible".

On the other hand, now that I reread the above two posts, I seem to be saying more or less the same as Try.
#8 Oct 15 2009 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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606 posts
Quote:
Ok, so now that haste will affect all dots, Shadow will get their dots scaled just like the direct damage abilities. During a BL/Hero, can you see a problem keeping dots up and getting off a MF tic to refresh SW:P every 12.6 seconds? That's even without any additional haste from gear. Keep in mind that the other dots will be falling off early as well.

I think we will see a new skillset needing to be developed for Shadow. Instead of a somewhat easy priority system, Shadow's spell selection will become a a bit more varied. Haste certainly will jump up as an itemization priority. With different types of haste procs, Shadow casting will require a bit more attention instead of relying on that time awareness that you develop regarding dot times.


I know, I have having conversations while doing my rotation somewhat absentmindedly (but still keeping it just fine)

On a related note, This change means that I can start seeing my DPS go up to more respectable levels, but will require even more "Time on Target" than before, leading me to think we'll still be behind on meter in places like ToC, just not as badly. (Not meant to be a QQ, just an observation)

Still, I'm trying to get onto the PTR and play around a bit with this!
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