This week I've been really lucky with the drops, as I mentioned in the Mage accomplishment thread. Thursday I got three upgrades from ToC 10, plus the Triumph Emblem ring and the T8.5 helm. Then last night I got a bracer drop on Iron Council, which I desperately needed as I was still wearing the epic bracers from H VH.
Anyways, I was really excited for Uld last night after five upgrades, and expecting/hoping to see my damage done top the meters (also a bit nervous that my raid leader would expect it too). It didn't. My dps didn't even jump up that much. It seems to jump around anywhere from 4-5k in raids, and while my dps was consistently the highest on each boss fight, my overall damage was not. This is something I seem to struggle with and it really frustrates me.
I'm still a fairly inexperienced raider, and perhaps that is the problem. I've only been in Uld a handful of times, and ToC twice. Naxx I only cleared once, but did a few of the wings about five or six times, OS with no drakes I've done a handful of times, and I've had two attempts at EoE but still haven't cleared it yet (although my guild has). I'm not an idiot though. I listen during boss explanations, I almost never die from standing in bad stuff. I try and keep mana shield or fire/frost shield up as much as possible and I get IA procs quite often.
I've got about 2350 SP now with just AI, over 450 haste (can't remember the exact number), and 35% crit with just MA. Rawr says I should be doing over 6k DPS. Am I being too hard on myself because I can't reach that? Or do I need a kick in the head and some helpful advice? Link in my sig is to my armory (which isn't updating all my gear atm, but my spec is accurate), if there's anything you guys can see that could be fixed or have any advice, that would be great.
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PigtailsOfDoom the Eccentric wrote:
...and while my dps was consistently the highest on each boss fight, my overall damage was not. This is something I seem to struggle with and it really frustrates me.
This has frustrated me to no end myself. My buddy is a warlock and notwithstanding that I completely outgear him, I can never seem to outdamage him. Ever. DPS is through the roof but he always seems to pull ahead immediately. If anyone has thoughts, I'd be happy to hear them myself.
As Mage I have never been out DPS's aside by another Mage since I geared up and went Arcane.
As is in Anub25 I'm pulling 5800 or so DPS and I'm still needing gear. But it says like, 7k dps for me. I'm like wtf o.O
You're doing well, Rawr seems to overshoot.
As is in Anub25 I'm pulling 5800 or so DPS and I'm still needing gear. But it says like, 7k dps for me. I'm like wtf o.O
You're doing well, Rawr seems to overshoot.
danoatnova Esquire wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom the Eccentric wrote:
...and while my dps was consistently the highest on each boss fight, my overall damage was not. This is something I seem to struggle with and it really frustrates me.
This has frustrated me to no end myself. My buddy is a warlock and notwithstanding that I completely outgear him, I can never seem to outdamage him. Ever. DPS is through the roof but he always seems to pull ahead immediately. If anyone has thoughts, I'd be happy to hear them myself.
If your outdpsing him and he is beating you in damage the answer is time spent fighting. Once you get your rotation down and know your gear the single biggest improvement to damage will be through minimizing movement. If you need to get out of AoE run out to the edge of it once you stop taking damage there is no reason to keep moving. If there is no AoE to be moving out of you shouldn't be moving at all.
sarion wrote:
Your doing well Rawr tends to overshoot.
Its not that rawr overshoots its that to achieve those numbers you need to maintain a perfect rotation and not move at all. So for a fight like patchwerk those numbers miht sound realistic but for almost every other fight you have to do some movement. The goal is ofcourse to get as close to those numbers as possible since that is DPS in an optimal setting.
Quote fail.
Edited, Oct 11th 2009 4:53pm by Twirdman
Sounds like you need more time on target. Sounds like you're using alot of globals on mana shield, frost/fire wards..in some cases those can be good, but generally they're not expected.
Knowing the fights better, simply from practicing the same raid week in, week out will make you better.
Also on movement based fights, the difference between being a clicker and a keybinder can add up.
Knowing the fights better, simply from practicing the same raid week in, week out will make you better.
Also on movement based fights, the difference between being a clicker and a keybinder can add up.
Just read you use IA. What is your spec? I found it too poor of a gain in consideration of what you give up to get it. A Ward only absorbs 1.1k (150ish Sp...) which is "neat" but I don't think worth 3 talents. Plus as mike mentioned, GCD's are going to wards/MS when it should be on damage spells.
But its all about playstyle too :)
But its all about playstyle too :)
On another note, doesn't Rawr calculate the DPS in a 100% optimal mage environment, aka pure tank&spank encounter, aka Patchwerk? Because yes, then it'll usually overshoot a bit.
I tend to switch back and forth between using my key bindings and using Clique depending on various factors. I mostly use my wad buttons and mouse for moving.
I don't keep MS or the wards up constantly, just when I see I'm taking dmg I might stop my rotation to put one of them up and then finish off the rotation (last night when I was doing this I only messed up my rotation a couple of times). Also I'm Arcane specced, you can see the specifics via the armory which is linked in my sig. I've noticed that with IA and MS or the wards, my SP can jump up to in the 4k range, and while this is only for a few seconds, I figure the boost is worth it. Am I wrong there?
I don't keep MS or the wards up constantly, just when I see I'm taking dmg I might stop my rotation to put one of them up and then finish off the rotation (last night when I was doing this I only messed up my rotation a couple of times). Also I'm Arcane specced, you can see the specifics via the armory which is linked in my sig. I've noticed that with IA and MS or the wards, my SP can jump up to in the 4k range, and while this is only for a few seconds, I figure the boost is worth it. Am I wrong there?
I'm going to agree with Mike that the reason that you are high on DPS and low on damage means that you are doing your things right (dps), just not often enough to reach your potential (damage done).
I would never ever ever use mana shield, as arcane your life and damage depends on your mana and when you are purposefully giving it away for a small damage gain seems backwards to me. I use my wards when I am moving or see something coming that I can absorb as I move out. Other than that I try to stay about 5-yds away from max range to make up for tank movement and such so I don't have to move very often at all as well.
And as was stated in this thread and the other, don't look at Rawr to be what you should be doing, look at it as if you had almost no lag, no movement, and performed your rotation perfectly (with proper RNG %s) you will get close to those numbers.
I would never ever ever use mana shield, as arcane your life and damage depends on your mana and when you are purposefully giving it away for a small damage gain seems backwards to me. I use my wards when I am moving or see something coming that I can absorb as I move out. Other than that I try to stay about 5-yds away from max range to make up for tank movement and such so I don't have to move very often at all as well.
And as was stated in this thread and the other, don't look at Rawr to be what you should be doing, look at it as if you had almost no lag, no movement, and performed your rotation perfectly (with proper RNG %s) you will get close to those numbers.
All right, I'll stop using mana shield and see if that helps.
What about the lack of improvement overall in my dps with five gear upgrades, 100 Haste increase, and 200 SP increase? That's what primarily concerns me.
What about the lack of improvement overall in my dps with five gear upgrades, 100 Haste increase, and 200 SP increase? That's what primarily concerns me.
of course it entirely depends on the fight mechanics. I will hit between 4.5-6k (or more) if the fight is good for me, otherwise I may be towards the middle of the pack. Those are some decent gear upgrades and I think it is a matter of knowing how to move more efficiently, timing your casts, and using your instants as you move if you are going to lose your debuff.
Okay thanks Anobix. Before my upgrades we were in ToC 10 (where I got most of the upgrades), and most of those fights don't seem to have a whole lot of movement. A little bit, but not as much as Uld, which is where we were after my upgrades, and I saw my dps go down a bit. Although thinking back on it, my dps in Uld a couple of weeks ago (prior to the Arcane buff) was about 2.5k-3k so I suppose 4k-4.5k is a good increase.
I'm also thinking about maybe getting the speed increase enchant to boots instead of Icewalker. Would that possibly help since I'd be theoretically spending less time moving away from AoE (or moving towards bonus dmg areas like in IC).
I'm also thinking about maybe getting the speed increase enchant to boots instead of Icewalker. Would that possibly help since I'd be theoretically spending less time moving away from AoE (or moving towards bonus dmg areas like in IC).
It's definitely a great enchant to get, no doubt about it. I think the estimate is that if you are moving for more than 5-6 seconds/minute then it is worthwhile to have the speed enchant.
The boot enchant might be too small of a difference to actually see in your DPS though. Overall it might be a 20-30dps upgade on movement fights (say 8s/minute) over icewalker. But with RNG it's almost impossible to be consistent enough to ever notice a 20-30dps difference.
I haven't kept up well with mages. Is arcane still based around blowing your whole mana bar by the end of the fight? Because if so it's possible alot of people fall too much into a "rotation" mindset and finish too many fights with too much mana.
I haven't kept up well with mages. Is arcane still based around blowing your whole mana bar by the end of the fight? Because if so it's possible alot of people fall too much into a "rotation" mindset and finish too many fights with too much mana.
Not so much anymore as Arcane is much more mana friendly now after the 3.2.2 buff. When I was using mana shield during Iron Council though I was burning through mana like crazy lol. I had to pop a mana gem and evocation, which I haven't had to do in a long time.
Edited, Oct 12th 2009 5:05pm by PigtailsOfDoom
Edited, Oct 12th 2009 5:05pm by PigtailsOfDoom
You can still boost your DPS by burning mana on arcane blast spam... but it really burns your mana and doesn't give you that much more dps for it.
The "best" thing to do with extra mana is to just keep casting arcane blast after 4 stacks if you don't have a missile barrage proc.
So, if you're ending fights with mana left over, stretch that rotation out to ABx5 or ABx6 while you're not getting missile barrage procs at four stacks.
Of course, if you need to Evocate because of this, your overall damage drops... on EJ, there's some debate as to whether you end up doing more or less overall damage. My feeling is that if you manage things properly and evocate during "dead" times (for example: during a phase transition on Mimiron) or evocate at the last tick of icy veins, you're going to see a big increase in overall damage.
edit to fix dps vs. overall damage confusion
Edited, Oct 12th 2009 8:49pm by boquaz
The "best" thing to do with extra mana is to just keep casting arcane blast after 4 stacks if you don't have a missile barrage proc.
So, if you're ending fights with mana left over, stretch that rotation out to ABx5 or ABx6 while you're not getting missile barrage procs at four stacks.
Of course, if you need to Evocate because of this, your overall damage drops... on EJ, there's some debate as to whether you end up doing more or less overall damage. My feeling is that if you manage things properly and evocate during "dead" times (for example: during a phase transition on Mimiron) or evocate at the last tick of icy veins, you're going to see a big increase in overall damage.
edit to fix dps vs. overall damage confusion
Edited, Oct 12th 2009 8:49pm by boquaz
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