Trash Aggro, should I be worried?Follow

1: Libram of Defiance = 25 Emblems of Triumph. Get it A S A P.

2: Drop Pursuit of Justice. Get Vindication. HUGE bonus.

That aside looking good.

Just run Reg ToC for Black Heart trinket and H ToC for, well, everything, but especially the Ring.

Good luck overall.

I don't think a simple weapon upgrade could handle that ungodly weapon being dual-wielded. I've never even SEEN one of those and I run TotC10/25 and Heroic. Then again if they had those I doubt they'd do Heroics, even Daily lol.

But yes, very good easy obtained weapon there.

Bad advice IMO.

Pursuit of Justice, especially at the OP's gear level, is very useful in raids. It allows you to get full +Stam on boots instead of Tuskarr's Vitality.

Vindication only reduces mobs' attack power, and doesn't stack with Demo shout and the like IIRC.

How is THAT going to help the OP's threat?

I had an H-UK run this morning, and peeps didn't give me more than a split second. They don't seem to understand that now that I am almost ready to start Ulduar-10, that my avoidances and block is high enough that I don't need healed much.

A lot of my incoming mana is from getting healed, and things die too fast for me to block/dodge/parry enough of their attacks, resulting me going OOM every other trash pull because they are just "bam bam bam bam bam hurry up!" kinda thing.

Ugh.

Is it common to have to blow through waters like crazy as a prot paladin as you get that high in gear?

You might try spec'ing into crusade and pickup Seal of Command. Its better snap threat than Veng as it has no ramp up time. Of course overall SoComm is much less threat but should be better for the 1st 20-25sec. Always swap back to Veng for bosses. A str trinket wouldn't hurt either, you have plenty of hp for any heroic.

Also make sure you're keeping up Divine Plea as much as you can. Chain pull/double pull if your grp's dps is good and your healer knows the plan. You really shouldn't be having mana issues with 2/2 in SA, generally if you are it means you either aren't pulling enough mobs or you don't trust your healer to keep you up if you do double pull.

This is just my own opinion for 5mans, but i find Holy Shield to be the lowest priority. I almost never use it in 5mans, unless i pull more than 6 or my healer is in greens. I almost always want to take more damage to get more mana back and blocking less does increase damage taken. Obviously i'm missing out on some threat from Holy Shield blocks, but I prefer the ability to keep consecration down and hitting all mobs rather than random mobs having much more threat from hitting my Holy Shield.

Warriors need that first burst of rage to do Anything, to be honest.

I play an Arms warrior too, and I'll charge. Charge has a minimum distance, by two laws:

1). The ability itself is ranged.
2). If the mobs get too close, you get stuck in Combat. I didn't spec into Juggernaut because that actually hurts me -- the longer CD on charge hurts, esp with fast-pulling in heroics.

So, if I charge, I have to do it right away, before the mobs get to the group, otherwise I get put in combat even though I didn't touch anything. However, I do it a little differently.

I'll make sure to pick a mob the tank threw his shield at, or a mob that got hit by at least a tick or two of D&D, or a mob the prot warrior charged at. As soon as I charge, I'll back up to where the tank is, so the mob will follow, without the tank having to run over and get it. And if I pull aggro, I got Shadowmeld, I can pop that and wait until the tank pulls aggro (they can taunt if they have to).

A Death Knight who knows what they are doing will just simply death grip the stupid thing after I charged it, unless there's a caster (I'll charge that, instead).

Dude, have you raided at all?

Have you done 10-man Naxx at all?

You need +Movement Speed, especially in the Off-tank role, which paladins are usually given, due to their good AoE tanking ability. They usually give the Warriors or Bears, or even Death Knights the MT duty, and let the paladins OT because they can round up adds quicker and easier.

Having +Movement Speed, especially _fifteen percent_, is a godsend in raids. Many fights are highly mobile and being able to get there, quicker, is potentially live-saving. Whether you are chasing down spiderlings during Maexxna, running away from Anub'rekhan when he does his bug storm (or to stop DPSing Anub and grab a Gate Watcher when it pops), or whether you're doing the Safety Dance, or running up to Grob after killing slimes to continue DPSing him, or how about Lava Waves in Sarth?

Having +Movement Speed helps in mobile combat, which many raids feature. Anytime you're running around on the battlefield, getting there 15% sooner can save lives. Paladins don't have Charge like a Warrior or Bear does, and we don't have Death Grip either. Pursuit of Justice is the answer/counter to that. It'd be stupid not to take it if you plan on going past 5-man heroics at all.

Edit:



That's mighty strange; every tank guide I read said the exact opposite; they said "Either take PoJ or get Tuskarr's Vitality, but +movement speed helps a lot in raids" (paraphrased). They usually say that PoJ is better.

I've never, ever read a guide that said Vindication > PoJ. Never. I've never seen any of the paladin gurus say that either. Never.

And from my experiences, I'm inclined to agree.

I think the only boss in Naxx or OS I've ever stood still during, was Patchwerk lol.

Edit2:

I've read the entire wowwiki entry on Threat, and I see nowhere within where it says taking damage lowers threat. IN FACT...



That basically says that mobs attacking you DOES NOT MODIFY YOUR THREAT (unless a mob has a special attack that does so).

So where are you getting off on this "taking damage lowers threat"....what are you playing, FFXI? lol.

Edited, Oct 9th 2009 11:53pm by Zariamnk

That's what I was thinking too, when I read his earlier post. Then I saw he said _Vindication_ and not Conviction, and I was like.. "what!?" And then I thought "maybe he mis-typed that..." then I read his newest and I sighed, and said 'nope.'.

If I ever do a respec, I'd likely consider that option, esp when/if I get new boots that would need a new enchant.

My DPS/threat has been fairly decent (for a tank), though... so it isn't enough to make me run out and go change it _right now_. Both setups are good. PoJ is only a 2-point talent; you're not missing that much taking it.

Complete horses**t, both sentences. In fact i think Maulgak is correct in that there are a few heals where the beneficiary of the heal actually gets the threat and I'm pretty sure all mana gained thru SA is threat producing as well(at least it was back in BC). The only thing taking more damage does is require more healing while providing you with more mana in return.

Avoidance and mitigation have no effect or a negative effect on threat. Because of the way HS works high avoidance actually hurts threat generation against melee mobs. That's not to say avoidance is bad, because it isn't, it's far better than block atm(in raids at least).



Mitigation includes armor, and i can't think of many fights where its 'worthless'. I think you meant to say 'fights where more avoidance is less optimal the LoV is a good alternative as it allows you to at least do more dps/tps'. For instance Northrend Beasts does involves eating a nasty bleed, getting hit while stunned, and taking poison+fire+frost damage throughout the 3 phases. Having another 200 dodge isn't going to be very noticeable given all that unavoidable damage.

If you did mean mitigation, then you deserve the sub-default rating as 80% of the dam in Hodir/Sapp/Twins(ok so Twins is closer to 65%) is straight physical damage. Which means it is avoidable and mitigated by armor/block value.

The reason to use LoV on Hodir is for more threat and the reason to use it on Twins is for more dps as you're doing double damage and they really don't hit very hard so more avoidance shouldn't be necessary. Not sure why you included Sapphiron, this is one I would definitely want more BV or more dodge on if I was an up and coming tank(ie, didn't outgear the encounter by 15k hp).


Every raid member needs to have increased run speed, thru enchants or talents, regardless of role. Increased run speed as a tank reduces the time required to pull and position a mob, thereby increasing the entire raids time on target. Not to mention picking up adds faster. So while faster threat on target isn't necessarily more threat overall, it is necessary as many achievements are for timed kills. Increased run speed should also increase your raids dps+survivability as you can move out of fire/void zones/misc. aoes and back into healing/dps range that much faster.

You supposedly cleared TotGCr but yet you didn't know that taking damage DOES NOT LOWER THREAT?

Lawl.

I've heard stories of people getting carried through content, but Come On....

Or did you buy your character through ebay?

How much does a TotCr character go for, anyways?

You sound like someone who wants to show off, but yet, someone who didn't earn something. Most of the higher-end raiding people I know will give out advice, but not sound like "holier-than-thou", which is absolutely oozing from every post you make.

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 10:05am by Zariamnk

Here's the vital bit: he must have cleared it on something other than his pally, at least if said paladin is using the same name he uses on WoWHead, because Arilwen-the-paladin on the US Armory is only 4/5 on TotGC 10 and 0/5 on TotGC 25. Which is fine, really, just not as good as he's claiming to be.

There's an Arilwen-the-mage on the EU armory, but she's got even less done--no regular TotC 10 clear at all, only a 25-man clear, and no Heroic bosses down.

Woah, I turn my back on a thread and it turns into a flame fest, for some odd reason I wasn't expecting that. Though I suppose a discussion on how to tune the opening of 969 for maximum AoE threat was a bit much to ask.

Advice on tuning my gear is welcome, the advice to pick up The Mechanical Turkey Chopper was particularly good as it will help make up the massive drop in expertise that will happen when I upgrade my chest piece. Though I am a little surprised that no one has picked up on the crapfest that is my bracers.

As for my choice of PoJ over vindication, I freely admit that it is just plain selfish and has nothing to do with tanking. If I were raid tanking than I would be making that choice based on who, if anyone, will be covering that debuff. But I don't raid tank and so my choice is between making bosses that don't hit very hard hit less hard or making shopping in Dalaran 15% faster. And I hate shopping. It's for very similar reasons that I love druid flight form (only I love flight form more).

Lastly it is true that impatient dps who don't watch their threat are idiots. Now I could let them pull aggro and give the healer something to do (they tend to complain about being bored); but, being the persnickety perfectionist that I am, I'd rather raise my game and play better. Part of which will no doubt be figuring out how to use my hand spells better and trusting that they have the dps to kill the mob before it gets to them. Sadly I am not a trusting soul and the first part may well be my only option.

Edited to add that two posts where added to this thread whilst I was writing this post.

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 12:10pm by firstclassforever

His armory profile isn't too hard to find. 20 seconds is what it took me.