Hello knowledgeable ones, please bestow upon me your wisdom. :)
I have finally got my druid to 80 and decided to go with bear as my main spec to gear up first. I bought a few bits of crafted purples and the rest will eventually fill slots as I get them. I know a lot of gear I am wearing atm is crap, but I am not asking "what should I be wearing".
I am after stats necessary for a fresh 80 bear to tank heroics. I have tried to find info about the place, but 99% of the info is crazy detailed with numbers that make my eyes glaze over or deals with raids. I plan on running some normal dungeons to get some gear, there are some ok blues from quests in HoL and UP as well as the gear from ToC, but if a call goes out for "LF Tank Heroics" I would like to know if I have the stats to jump in and be ok or how far off I am.
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New 80 Bear stats?Follow
The CoS quest gloves are good. Do Tourney dailies and run ToC reg till your eyes bleed. Between the 2 you will be geared fairly fast.
Stam is awesome, agility is fantastic and expertise is your friend. Don't avoid hit. For non-leather pieces look for stam, dodge and defense. Expertise and armor are a strong plus.
Stam is awesome, agility is fantastic and expertise is your friend. Don't avoid hit. For non-leather pieces look for stam, dodge and defense. Expertise and armor are a strong plus.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Back at release, I started running heroics with about 25k health, 36% dodge and 27k armor. But those stats mean something very different nowadays than they did then because of all the changes to bears. I don't think there are any stats on what's needed before tanking heroics atm. Heroics are just so ludicrously easy. However, I'd advise going kitty rather than bear to start. Heroics are easy but thats because everyone is running around in free t9. If you try to start tanking in the basic starter stuff you won't be able to hold threat at all and they will become a very frustrating series of wipes even if you are technically geared. Get a couple of pieces of T8 and some stuff out of ToC/HToC before you start tanking pugs. (If you tank guild runs, I presume your dps will know to take it easy.)
Thanks for the replies guys.
I know exactly what you mean Tuskerdu, I grouped with a bunch of Ulduar geared guys while trying to gear my Warrior and failed miserably. They would be wailing on the mob and I had no chance of grabbing any aggro. We didn't finish the instance and I didn't play the warrior for weeks after that. I am hoping to avoid that this time around.
I know exactly what you mean Tuskerdu, I grouped with a bunch of Ulduar geared guys while trying to gear my Warrior and failed miserably. They would be wailing on the mob and I had no chance of grabbing any aggro. We didn't finish the instance and I didn't play the warrior for weeks after that. I am hoping to avoid that this time around.
Quote:
I started running heroics with about 25k health, 36% dodge and 27k armor.
That's still about right. Add at least a minimum buff to it, like let's say food and BoK, and you can still tank any heroic other than ToC as long as dps really focuses on your current target AND you're not reaching those stats using 2 Brewfest trinkets and Polar pieces.
Speaking of trigger-happy DPS... While I am usually not overly fond of the homogenization of classes, I think that really all tanking classes should have the threat-transfer component of the Vigilance talent to help with threat issues. Even more so with the upcoming the cross-realm PuGs.
It's simply not right that people who want to tank are more or less forced to DPS until they've collected a couple hundred tokens of whatever kind. At the same time, people who want to DPS and are actually good at it should not be punished for that by having to hold back all the time.
Quote:
It's simply not right that people who want to tank are more or less forced to DPS until they've collected a couple hundred tokens of whatever kind
For my Pally & DK, quest rewards and crafted gear got me to crit immunity. Then my DK tanked reg ToC for a while to get most of the gear (Pally hasn't started this yet) then started on heroics. There is no need to DPS at all if you don't want to. As long as your healer isn't too undergeared and your DPS aren't too dumb and overgeared, you shouldn't have a problem.
I am the only one who still levels toons in instances?
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
I'll throw my leveling toons into LFG if I'm in Azeroth and near the leveling instance (Tanaris and ZF, for example), and once I'm in outlands. I don't go out of my way to get an instance group though unless I have all the quests for the instance.
It's never a matter of being "forced" to DPS when you want to tank. You have the choice to take the group that wants you now, but they have a better geared tank and need you as filler DPS. Or, you can wait for a group that needs a tank, or you can start a group of people with similar gear-level / expectations. There's enough BoE gear now, you can go into heroics with a fair amount of 200/213/226 epics. If you're feeling really spendy, you can even get i245 chest/wrists, too.
On both servers I've played on, there's a fair number of guilds for fresh 80s spamming trade every day. Yes, the LFG tool isn't very useful. Mostly because no one uses it. Find a guild for group content, that's (a big part of) what they're there for.
It's never a matter of being "forced" to DPS when you want to tank. You have the choice to take the group that wants you now, but they have a better geared tank and need you as filler DPS. Or, you can wait for a group that needs a tank, or you can start a group of people with similar gear-level / expectations. There's enough BoE gear now, you can go into heroics with a fair amount of 200/213/226 epics. If you're feeling really spendy, you can even get i245 chest/wrists, too.
On both servers I've played on, there's a fair number of guilds for fresh 80s spamming trade every day. Yes, the LFG tool isn't very useful. Mostly because no one uses it. Find a guild for group content, that's (a big part of) what they're there for.
I don't even bother doing dungeons while leveling. I have found it too much effort to find a group, and if they aren't competent, then it can work out to be worse XP than I could have got questing. And dungeon quests pay me 25g and a plate item to sell if I do them at 80 :)
You need some pretty incompetent people to wipe on a normal instance nowadays. My Druid went from 70 to 80 by mixing questing with PvP and instances. Hit 80 before reaching Dragonblight and had enough PvP gear to begin my short Feral career there. Having Restoration as your off-spec and a Feral main-spec will make the invites start to roll in like thunder.
Being the tank or healer also ensures that your group doesn't fail, because surely you're not incompetent.
On topic, I just got bored of Boomkin and thought I'd respec Feral again. Mostly to quest a little more easily, but also to get into more groups with a tank/healer setup. I only just filled out all my armor slots, using a mix of BOE blues (the PvP set), emblem gear and Tournament stuff (staff).
I'm sitting at 30% dodge, 26k health and 25k armor. Not a lot, but hopefully it'll be enough to get me into some TotC farming and regular runs so I can farm teh epixx.
Being the tank or healer also ensures that your group doesn't fail, because surely you're not incompetent.
On topic, I just got bored of Boomkin and thought I'd respec Feral again. Mostly to quest a little more easily, but also to get into more groups with a tank/healer setup. I only just filled out all my armor slots, using a mix of BOE blues (the PvP set), emblem gear and Tournament stuff (staff).
I'm sitting at 30% dodge, 26k health and 25k armor. Not a lot, but hopefully it'll be enough to get me into some TotC farming and regular runs so I can farm teh epixx.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
I think your health is 10k short of tanking anything T9, Maz. BEFORE buffs.
Edited, Oct 19th 2009 11:51am by Norellicus
Edited, Oct 19th 2009 11:51am by Norellicus
10k is a lot, though. And I don't have any plans of tanking T9 content at the moment, heh.
Unless you meant I wasn't geared to tank TotC, in which case I'll have to disagree with you as I just finished a run. TotC is the 5-man instance also known as Trial of the Champion. Was hella hard trying to keep aggro on all the mobs with a T9 geared Hunter in the party (who didn't use Misdirection) and an Arms Warrior and Arcane Mage. Burst for the win? Was like trying to control a pack of Azjol-Nerub Skirmishers, if you know what I mean.
However, it gave me a goal: Get more +hit, ffs, Maz! And expertise.
Before I conclude this most interesting self-pat post, I'd like for you to take a look at a screenshot and tell me what is wrong with it.
Hint: Third line from the top.
Eadric here is a level 82 elite and this is the normal 5-man instance. I thought SotF made us crit immune? Will I have to look for defense leather now? What gives? Also, I had no debuffs on of any kind and as you can see from the screenshot, it's physical damage, so it can't be because of magic crit rates or whatever.
Edited, Oct 19th 2009 8:18pm by Mazra
Unless you meant I wasn't geared to tank TotC, in which case I'll have to disagree with you as I just finished a run. TotC is the 5-man instance also known as Trial of the Champion. Was hella hard trying to keep aggro on all the mobs with a T9 geared Hunter in the party (who didn't use Misdirection) and an Arms Warrior and Arcane Mage. Burst for the win? Was like trying to control a pack of Azjol-Nerub Skirmishers, if you know what I mean.
However, it gave me a goal: Get more +hit, ffs, Maz! And expertise.
Before I conclude this most interesting self-pat post, I'd like for you to take a look at a screenshot and tell me what is wrong with it.
Hint: Third line from the top.
Eadric here is a level 82 elite and this is the normal 5-man instance. I thought SotF made us crit immune? Will I have to look for defense leather now? What gives? Also, I had no debuffs on of any kind and as you can see from the screenshot, it's physical damage, so it can't be because of magic crit rates or whatever.
Edited, Oct 19th 2009 8:18pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
There are two scenarios in this instance where being crit can happen:
1) Eadric the Pure and his Vengeance buff
2) The Monks before the 2nd boss have Unbalancing Strike, which reduces defense skill by 100.
:P
Edited, Oct 19th 2009 3:02pm by Galenmoon
1) Eadric the Pure and his Vengeance buff
2) The Monks before the 2nd boss have Unbalancing Strike, which reduces defense skill by 100.
:P
Edited, Oct 19th 2009 3:02pm by Galenmoon
I've noticed that some boss encounters have debuffs/buffs that completely negate the point of stacking defense.
I don't get this type of balancing. Stack A so you can avoid B, but then we'll buff B so A doesn't matter all the time. Instead of him just doing more damage or something. And there's the chance of him bugging out and hitting a random member with that crap. 7k crit on 26k armor and 12% innate mitigation. I wonder what would happen to a Mage with, say, 15k health or so at entry level. And this is a level 80 instance.
Anyway, tanking feels sorta good again. I miss not having a "git over here, ya bastid" AOE thingie like Consecrate or Death & Decay, and I miss the crowd control of Hungering Cold or Shockwave, but spamming Swipe will hold aggro through 2k+ DPS at the moment, so as long as I mash buttons like a freak of speed, I'll be okay.
I don't get this type of balancing. Stack A so you can avoid B, but then we'll buff B so A doesn't matter all the time. Instead of him just doing more damage or something. And there's the chance of him bugging out and hitting a random member with that crap. 7k crit on 26k armor and 12% innate mitigation. I wonder what would happen to a Mage with, say, 15k health or so at entry level. And this is a level 80 instance.
Anyway, tanking feels sorta good again. I miss not having a "git over here, ya bastid" AOE thingie like Consecrate or Death & Decay, and I miss the crowd control of Hungering Cold or Shockwave, but spamming Swipe will hold aggro through 2k+ DPS at the moment, so as long as I mash buttons like a freak of speed, I'll be okay.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Luckily Eadric hits like a wet noodle and 95% of the time if a dps has aggro then it's their fault if they get one-shotted.
I'm back to feral dps main and feral tank dual spec. Hitting 30.5k unbuffed in caster form is funny when you're standing next to a warrior or pally running VoA who's like 30-34k. I always love shifting into form and hitting 50k buffed :P
I'm back to feral dps main and feral tank dual spec. Hitting 30.5k unbuffed in caster form is funny when you're standing next to a warrior or pally running VoA who's like 30-34k. I always love shifting into form and hitting 50k buffed :P
Mazra wrote:
10k is a lot, though. And I don't have any plans of tanking T9 content at the moment, heh.
Unless you meant I wasn't geared to tank TotC, in which case I'll have to disagree with you as I just finished a run. TotC is the 5-man instance also known as Trial of the Champion. Was hella hard trying to keep aggro on all the mobs with a T9 geared Hunter in the party (who didn't use Misdirection) and an Arms Warrior and Arcane Mage. Burst for the win? Was like trying to control a pack of Azjol-Nerub Skirmishers, if you know what I mean.
However, it gave me a goal: Get more +hit, ffs, Maz! And expertise.
Before I conclude this most interesting self-pat post, I'd like for you to take a look at a screenshot and tell me what is wrong with it.
Hint: Third line from the top.
Eadric here is a level 82 elite and this is the normal 5-man instance. I thought SotF made us crit immune? Will I have to look for defense leather now? What gives? Also, I had no debuffs on of any kind and as you can see from the screenshot, it's physical damage, so it can't be because of magic crit rates or whatever.
Edited, Oct 19th 2009 8:18pm by Mazra
Unless you meant I wasn't geared to tank TotC, in which case I'll have to disagree with you as I just finished a run. TotC is the 5-man instance also known as Trial of the Champion. Was hella hard trying to keep aggro on all the mobs with a T9 geared Hunter in the party (who didn't use Misdirection) and an Arms Warrior and Arcane Mage. Burst for the win? Was like trying to control a pack of Azjol-Nerub Skirmishers, if you know what I mean.
However, it gave me a goal: Get more +hit, ffs, Maz! And expertise.
Before I conclude this most interesting self-pat post, I'd like for you to take a look at a screenshot and tell me what is wrong with it.
Hint: Third line from the top.
Eadric here is a level 82 elite and this is the normal 5-man instance. I thought SotF made us crit immune? Will I have to look for defense leather now? What gives? Also, I had no debuffs on of any kind and as you can see from the screenshot, it's physical damage, so it can't be because of magic crit rates or whatever.
Edited, Oct 19th 2009 8:18pm by Mazra
Lost in translation. Most people call the 5 man ToC and the raid TotC (though I call it ToCr). You're fine in ToC.
Edited, Oct 19th 2009 4:11pm by Norellicus
We're both at fault then. I've seen both TotC and ToC being used about the 5-man, but people usually put 10 after it when speaking of the 10-man version. Trial of the Grand Crusader is the 25-man one, right?
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Mazra wrote:
We're both at fault then. I've seen both TotC and ToC being used about the 5-man, but people usually put 10 after it when speaking of the 10-man version. Trial of the Grand Crusader is the 25-man one, right?
It's actually a little more broken up than that, Mazra. In terms of the T9 raid, you have the following:
Normal Mode
Trial of the Crusader (10 man) - ToC10 - ilvl232 loot
Trial of the Crusader (25 man) - ToC25 - ilvl245 loot
Heroic Mode
Trial of the Grand Crusader (10 man) - ToGC10 - ilvl245 loot
Trial of the Grand Crusader (25 man) - ToGC25 - ilvl258 loot
So "Grand Crusader" indicates hard or heroic modes, and there is a 10 and 25 man version of both normal (ToC or TotC) and heroic (ToGC or TotGC). Hope that clarifies it a bit.
Wow, so many TotC/ToC's.
They really should've named them Bob and Clary instead.
LFM Clary10 Healer
LFM Bob HC Tank & DPS
Yeah, that'd be much better.
They really should've named them Bob and Clary instead.
LFM Clary10 Healer
LFM Bob HC Tank & DPS
Yeah, that'd be much better.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
I figured I'd revive this thread instead of making a new one. Wouldn't want the first page to get clogged up, would we?
Anyway, I'm now nearing the point where my Druid is geared from heroics and needs to focus on something more. I'm not going to link you my Armory profile (psst, signature) because I logged out in my DPS gear (lol, DPS, ya right).
My (unbuffed) stats in Dire Bear Form are:
38k health
36.5% dodge
27k armor
4.5k attack power
29 expertise
5% hit - need to work on that, I know
38.5% crit
I mention these last things because I believe they have an impact on my TPS or something.
This is my talent build.
- pardon the Rip glyph, but I'm using my tank gear/spec as a sort of emergency DPS thing as well
What, other than heroics, am I ready for?
I'm asking because my guild's main tanks have around 34-35k health, but they're better geared than me and are Paladins so they get blocks as well.
Edited, Nov 7th 2009 5:04am by Mazra
Anyway, I'm now nearing the point where my Druid is geared from heroics and needs to focus on something more. I'm not going to link you my Armory profile (psst, signature) because I logged out in my DPS gear (lol, DPS, ya right).
My (unbuffed) stats in Dire Bear Form are:
38k health
36.5% dodge
27k armor
4.5k attack power
29 expertise
5% hit - need to work on that, I know
38.5% crit
I mention these last things because I believe they have an impact on my TPS or something.
This is my talent build.
- pardon the Rip glyph, but I'm using my tank gear/spec as a sort of emergency DPS thing as well
What, other than heroics, am I ready for?
I'm asking because my guild's main tanks have around 34-35k health, but they're better geared than me and are Paladins so they get blocks as well.
Edited, Nov 7th 2009 5:04am by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Go tank Uld all ready.
Ya slacker.
Ya slacker.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
You have savage defense for block, I bet you have a bunch more armor and besides, bear is sexier than pally imo :P
Also, I'd be more concentrated on getting your dodge to 40% than hitting the hit cap. 5% is more than enough for tanking.
Also, I'd be more concentrated on getting your dodge to 40% than hitting the hit cap. 5% is more than enough for tanking.
40% dodge unbuffed? Ugh, I'll have to ditch my sexy rings then. Loads of health from them, but no agility. Although, both have +dodge rating, if I remember correctly.
Anyway, does that mean I can tank stuff like Naxx10 and such? How about Ony10? It seems to be a rather simple tank fight, at least if I go as off-tank. Gathering up whelps or tanking the big elites while watching out for her Breath seems easier than having to heal 10 people spread out over far too much ground.
Anyway, does that mean I can tank stuff like Naxx10 and such? How about Ony10? It seems to be a rather simple tank fight, at least if I go as off-tank. Gathering up whelps or tanking the big elites while watching out for her Breath seems easier than having to heal 10 people spread out over far too much ground.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Quote:
40% dodge unbuffed? Ugh, I'll have to ditch my sexy rings then. Loads of health from them, but no agility. Although, both have +dodge rating, if I remember correctly.
Toss the Brewfest stamina trinket and get a Darkmoon card or the Heroism dodge trinket. You might even be sitting on the Brewfest version of it. Seeing that you're an alchemist, you could even compromise with stamina/dodge and equip the Indestructible Alchemist's Stone.
Quote:
Anyway, does that mean I can tank stuff like Naxx10 and such? How about Ony10? It seems to be a rather simple tank fight, at least if I go as off-tank.
Most of your gear is iLevel 226. There is no reason why you couldn't tank Naxx 10 or 25 (200/213) or Ulduar 10 (219). You would probably even do just fine in Ulduar 25, touching your limits with Onyxia 10 (though off-tanking should be just fine).
Keep in mind that most people tanking those places these days with intimidating health pools are actually totally outgearing the encounters by having geared up in ToC 10 or 25 or through Triumph bagdes.
You want me to throw away 170 stamina and a group heal for dodge? Are you crazy or something? I'm a stamina junkie, baby!
Yes, I have the dodge trinket from the Brewfest event, but considering health pools are what matters when getting into raids these days, I'm not about to throw away 1700 health in Caster form for it.
On the plus side, I just off-tanked Onyxia 10-man a while ago. It was great. Only problem I had was when the MT brought his whelp pack to my whelp pack, causing me to pull aggro instantly due to hitting Challenging Roar the same second, which I take it the healers weren't prepared for, heh. Saw my health dip below 30% there for a short while.
I found out that raid-buffed I have about 49k health. This is with Stoneblood, Well Fed, Blood Pact, Fortitude, Kings and Mark, but without a Warrior for Commanding Shout.
Hitting Survival Instinct and watching my health go up to 62k was fun.
Edited, Nov 7th 2009 9:31pm by Mazra
Yes, I have the dodge trinket from the Brewfest event, but considering health pools are what matters when getting into raids these days, I'm not about to throw away 1700 health in Caster form for it.
On the plus side, I just off-tanked Onyxia 10-man a while ago. It was great. Only problem I had was when the MT brought his whelp pack to my whelp pack, causing me to pull aggro instantly due to hitting Challenging Roar the same second, which I take it the healers weren't prepared for, heh. Saw my health dip below 30% there for a short while.
I found out that raid-buffed I have about 49k health. This is with Stoneblood, Well Fed, Blood Pact, Fortitude, Kings and Mark, but without a Warrior for Commanding Shout.
Hitting Survival Instinct and watching my health go up to 62k was fun.
Edited, Nov 7th 2009 9:31pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Man, Bear tank health is insane.
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