Playing with fire vs more spiritFollow

I don't think that you are gaining as much as you think you are with a smaller amount of spirit->crit instead of utilizing straight +% damage done. I'm sure you can pop it straight into Rawr and it will tell you what the talents are worth per point for you at your gear level. I can only imagine it being better once you are using 2pc T9 to get more benefit from spirit, but frankly I would have expected that math to have been done and have been posted all over EJ by now.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#of0Vcu0cZ0EcbRhuhVubhct

Is that what you were thinking?

I think the benefit to PWF is that it scales better than the small amount of spirit that you would get to then transfer into crit. If it was haste it may be worthwhile (as at higher gear levels it scales 1:1 with spellpower), but since we are already at such high levels of crit already (60+% raid buffed) the diminishing returns have pretty much already set in with some RNG I don't think the DPS increase would be worth the talent points.


After playing around with a talent calculator if you are not having any mana issues this spec would be higher dps:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#of0Vcu0cZ0EcbRhshVubhct

As it incorporates both. You could also pull the points out of flame throwing back into MoE, but I like not having to move a bit more (or you can split them between the two).

The build above is pretty much taking any DPS booster I can find ignoring running out of mana early because of MoE. Buring soul is also a possibility to take a point out of if you do not have aggro issues.

Edited, Oct 7th 2009 6:46pm by Anobix

Edited, Oct 8th 2009 9:09am by Anobix

I posted the spec and a post describing it on EJ in the mage compendium thread, we will see if we get a response.

Note, that this isn't meant to reflect badly on you or your post in ANY way:



I always find it interesting when people say things like this in a post, because it doesn't really tell us anything other than the fact that a Mage can out-DpS another class, which is a basic concept of all classes (a Holy priest can out-DpS an awful Mage).

It's one thing if you mention a number. Like, if the worst DpS is doing 2.2K, that tells us something...

Again, I'm not bashing your post. Probably at least 90% of posters are guilty of it. And it isn't like it is a wrong statement--that may have been the case.

Though, in the case of above, I wouldn't use it as support for Arcane Mages in terms of other specs. You don't even mention them in that comment. So, we can't even get a broad statement that, assuming equal level of gear and skill, x tree is better than y tree...

I'm not up with all the mage builds, but I've seen competitive players of both builds on these boards. If I recall correctly, Filter has had a lot of success with a fire build recently.

Experience has a lot to do with it I think. My new guild, i recently took six months off, has 5 mages. Of those I'm the 2nd to last in terms of gear. The mages ahead of me out gears me by a lot. I am consistently the 2nd or 3rd mage and occasionally 1st in terms of damage and 3rd in DPS. Why is that? Because I can stay alive a lot longer than them. I know I'm going to seem like a fossil, but it seems like it was much harder to stay alive in BC than wrath or I just learned how to do it better with SSC and TK raiding. I try not to even think of HyJal. It's not uncommon for me to be one of the last 5 or 6 people still alive when they call a wipe because too many people have died. It seems like the people in the guild who did a lot of raiding, pre big nerfs, in BC stay alive longer.

Really? Defaulted for that? Is this a Pallyboard v2? Was just showing Arcane is better. Whether the other mage was good or not is irrelevent when the gap is THAT big it HAS to be both skill AND spec.

Go Arcane, try it. If you don't like it, swap back. It's not that pricey.

Careful. Complaining about getting rated down won't help your situation.

Arcane can be better if the circumstances are right. Otherwise fire can pull ahead depending on how much AoE there is, AoE damage, fight length, and amount of time standing still.

In current tests regarding BiS with no movement arcane is ahead of fire by a % or 2, but that % is easily made up for in terms of lag, skill, gear levels, and fight mechanics.


I raid as both depending on the fight.

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 9:42am by Anobix