Invasion of the Palibads.Follow

I've noticed recently there has been a very bad change in how people are playing. When I leveled Mage, every group I got into save a few fringe ones, was spectacular. Now my Priest is 79 and it is a nightmare. The worst thing(aside 500dps Feral Druids and DKs) are the Paladin tanks.

1: Not def capped.
I personally do not know the cap for reg dungeons(535 is heroic) but 400 is NOT OK

2: Seal of Wisdom/Light/Justice
NO, NO, NO. Seal of Vengeance is not a hard concept. USE IT.

3: Not using Divine Plea.
.... I don't even know what to say aside, USE IT.

4: Not talenting into Seals of the Pure. At 80 for raids some people argue this. At anything BEFORE 80 this is not debatable. With how bad DPS is until 80, every bit is needed. Do it.

I dunno what is going on but please, PLEASE if you intend to play Paladin read the F.A.Qs.

1. As a former Paly Tank (Retired after Ulduar) the 'def-cap' on regular is not an issue. I don't recall what my def was during my non-heroic days (You are right on your 535 Heroic #), but it didn't really matter. Short of you gearing non-tank plate you should be fine. (Meaning Plate with Stam/Str/Def = Good, Int/MP5/SPR = Bad) I never had this problem. I never tried to hit X Def to tank a pre-heroic.

2. Generally agree with you. Sometimes you will want the mana and sometimes you will want to help a weaker healer, but 90% of the time you are looking for simple threat. If the healer is doing good and the paly mana isn't an issue - Seal for Threat.

3. They don't know and need to learn. Lots of people don't really tank until outland - even then it's rare. But you are correct.

4. I agree. As you are solo'ing this will help you level/kill faster and as you try to tank instances you'll have a better time getting/maintain agro. Is lacking this talent a recipe for failure, No. But as most of the people who are running these instances are learning, this definately assists them along the learning curve.



Personally - I've been annoyed at the tanking progression. A lot of people seem to be skimping out on their prep work. I think a lot of DPS classes were able to enter heroics right after hitting 80 because other people (us) geared the heck out of their tanks and were able to support/drag them through. Now, I'm working on my Shamy and my druid and I'm noticing sub-par tanks who don't know how to do thier job and how to gear for mitigation/survival.... It's annoying.

i'm kinda missing the point of this thread. are you having trouble with tanks not having enough defensive stats or tanks not holding aggro or you not being able to heal reg instances?

part of the art of PUGing is working around the weaknesses. it is frustrating AND challenging.

1. Pre heroics who cares really. In a perfect world anyone tanking level 80 regular dungeons would have 530 def but preheroics is the first step to learning how to tank
2. Until the overhaul to SoV in the last major patch (3.2) I would use SoW most of the time and have no threat issues in heroics.
3. Unless your successfully chaining groups, which you wouldnt expect an undergeared tank to be doing DP wont always be up.
4. I have never specced into this as Prot. Back when I ran heroics for badges and gear, I used SoW so SotP had no use for me. If these pallies are using SoW/SoL like you said then they actually have a point as to why they're not specced into SotP.

Its not palibads thats the problem. Its bad players. Why are you noticing it more in pally tanks? Probably because we are still the Flavour of the Month. Just save the good players to your friends list and take note of the bad ones. You will always run the risk of having terrible PuGs. At least when they are undergeared you are aware of it before the first pull.

My beef is that dps DK/Pally/Warrior/Druid that picked up a tanking offset and has decided to tank something with no clue of what they are doing.

That's too bad because they are some of the easiest tanks to run with if they know what they are doing. By the end of my tanking days I'd just run in and round em up... DPS could just do what they wanted...



This is really really true. The perfect example is the 4 pull before the 1st boss of the H.UK instance. That pull isn't hard, but it can quickly go wrong if you try CC in the wrong way or the group goes too far into the room. I was tanking a group and we had a death. The guy /w me and said, "Next time tell the group to remain down the stairs. You pull them back to the group. The steps creates a bottle neck. All the mobs run to you and your Consecrate will pick them all up." I've never had a problem since. It's so easy it's stupid. But I'd never thought of it.

If you see that type of mistake - politely point it out. I always tell the group, if you see me doing (about to do) something wrong - Please tell me.

That is my personal red flag. I try to help players as much as a I can, but when you get that kind of closemindedness, it's very seldom worth the time or effort.

In unrelated news, I just pugged Ony and made a nervous new pally tank's day by spamming FoK (with Tricks of the Trade on him) so he thinks he can hold aggro through a combined total of about 20k dps :p Now I'm gonna have to make sure he knows where his actual limits are and doesn't do something stupid and get people killed D:

Woah, wait, WHAT!?

A "New Pally Tank" in Ony?

I thought Ony was supposedly, like, at least Naxx25, if not Ulduar-ish? She drops like 230+.

Won't work.

When you hit the first with Exorcism, all of the mobs in that group will be "Attacking You!" and HoR won't do anything if a mob is already attacking you.

You COULD HoR the first, but you'd have to make sure you throw AS and then Exo and hope you get Exo out before the mobs get to you.

That's pretty much what I do, on pulls where there's two mobs but I don't want to use Avenger's Shield, I start casting Exorcism then switch targets and hit the other with Hand of Reckoning, that split-second between the second, linked mob targeting me gets the damage off, and I got solid threat on both immediately.

Exorcism's great for pulling or DPS when you're just an offtank, but yeah, using it while tanking's pretty fail. Oh, also, if you're asking a tank to be Defense-Capped for a non-Heroic 5-man other than ToC, your expectations may be set too high.

What is the point?

If you're running any regular dungeon except for ToC then you're >80.

If you're >80 buying a heap of BoE gear isn't worth the investment because you'll replace it by the time you hit 80.

Simply, you don't need it.

If you are struggling in groups perhaps look into what you're doing as a healer rather than asking the tank to outgear the content.



Also I understand why you don't want to use the term def-capped, but it still makes sense. People use the term hit-cap as well.

There actually is a hard hit cap, beyond which adding more hit to your gear does absolutely nothing for you.

8% is one-weapon or special attack hit cap, which I'm guessing is what you pallies go for.
17% is spell hit cap, though most casters have talents that contribute to hit chance.
27% is dual-wielding hit cap according to WoWWiki, and no one really gears for that.

Defense is one of the few "ratings" that doesn't cap.