I was telling a friend of mine at work (he has an Ulduar-geared Prot Warrior) about my recent exploits in Naxxramas, and how we downed Grobbulus after 5 tries after I came up with the winning strat and all, and then I told him that we utterly failed Gluth, because of the DPS not taking care of zombies properly and then I said that Me (OT) and the MT, switched back and forth perfectly, except near the end, when he resisted two taunts in a row (the MT didn't die as a result, we wiped to the Enrage), and he goes:
"Someone's not hit capped!"
And I said "yeah, me... but how the heck do you get hit capped, AND maintain 540 DEF, AND Avoidances AND Stam?"
And he started to talk about gemming for Hit, enchanting for Hit, etc...
Which leads me to ask here:
At what point should a tank start reaching for +hit? I always thought that was in the 25mans, when they've got extra itemization to devote to that. I'm still doing 10-man content; I didn't think I was supposed to start actively seeking +Hit quite yet?
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moon+Guard&n=Hirai
That's my character right now. I know I can switch out that +Agility on my weapon for Accuracy (I just obtained the formula recently), and I Think I can take off one of those Defense gems and replace it with +Hit instead... should I change a couple Stam gems to Stam/Hit?
Just how much hit should I look to try to attain? Any other suggestions?
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If you're in 10 man content stacking hit isn't necessary or at all encouraged. I haven't seen any tanks in 10 man content hit capped. Not in exclusively 10 man gear. Its not very common that taunts are resisted and if you're a paladin you have two taunts.
Taunts are resisted from time to time, but if you're just doing Naxx that's usually not a problem.
Taunts are resisted from time to time, but if you're just doing Naxx that's usually not a problem.
Zariamnk wrote:
then I said that Me (OT) and the MT, switched back and forth perfectly, except near the end, when he resisted two taunts in a row (the MT didn't die as a result, we wiped to the Enrage), and he goes:
My guess is that you were taunting a little too often back and forth and that you hit diminishing returns. Same thing happened today against Thorim when our other tank got a little taunt-crazy.
ekaterinodar wrote:
If you're in 10 man content stacking hit isn't necessary or at all encouraged. I haven't seen any tanks in 10 man content hit capped.
My warrior is at 8.5% (though just because it came naturally on gear) for Ulduar 10. That just kind of happened though, can't say I tried for it and I'm not going to be worried when I drop back below it after some more upgrades.
I would say that using the taunt Glyph would be far better then gemming/enchanting for hit if it was deemed that important. Exception would be Accuracy, but I have never seen any of the more experienced Paly tanks put any other hit on outside of the hit that comes on their upgrades already.
I must admit I haven't touched Ulduar yet. Im in a casual guild that raids even more casually. But it wouldn't surprise me if the Ulduar gear started indulging more in areas like that.
Really all Naxx was/is here for is to get you performing your basic functions and geared well enough to do them well. Ulduar on the other hand is where it seems you start getting frills and having to work for them.
It wouldn't hit to throw like a hit/stamina gem in here and there. But I wouldn't get obsessive about it.
I didn't think diminishing returns affected tanks on taunts?
Really all Naxx was/is here for is to get you performing your basic functions and geared well enough to do them well. Ulduar on the other hand is where it seems you start getting frills and having to work for them.
It wouldn't hit to throw like a hit/stamina gem in here and there. But I wouldn't get obsessive about it.
I didn't think diminishing returns affected tanks on taunts?
Well, on Gluth, what we were told (the two tanks) were that we should taunt Gluth off of each other when the debuff reaches 3 stacks, and that's exactly what we did.
It took... quite some time for the debuff to reach 3 stacks. I don't have an exact number, but the Taunts were happening once in every 10... 15? seconds? Something like that? Heck, probably longer than that, I remember there being 4-5 switches during the entire battle, and we wiped to the Enrage timer, which is what, 5-6min? So you're talking about Gluth being taunted 5-8 times within 5-6 minutes.
I doubt he was building resistance to it at that rate, surely.
I probably just had some bad luck, getting resisted twice in a row, 'tis all.
It took... quite some time for the debuff to reach 3 stacks. I don't have an exact number, but the Taunts were happening once in every 10... 15? seconds? Something like that? Heck, probably longer than that, I remember there being 4-5 switches during the entire battle, and we wiped to the Enrage timer, which is what, 5-6min? So you're talking about Gluth being taunted 5-8 times within 5-6 minutes.
I doubt he was building resistance to it at that rate, surely.
I probably just had some bad luck, getting resisted twice in a row, 'tis all.
I haven't even looked at hit on my second spec (prot pala) and I've not noticed any problems taunting Gluth, ofc with RNG I could of just been lucky.
Most of the problems with Gluth is people not keeping the zombies far enough away.
Most of the problems with Gluth is people not keeping the zombies far enough away.
Pretty much if you try and taunt more than three times in two or so seconds the mob will go immune due to dimminishing returns on taunts (works similar to CC in pvp).
Hit rating on Naxx/Pre Naxx tanking gear is scarce so I would just pick up the Taunt Glyph.
So in reality it's a player failure, rather than a mechanic...
arthoriuss wrote:
Pretty much if you try and taunt more than three times in two or so seconds the mob will go immune due to dimminishing returns on taunts (works similar to CC in pvp).
To be exact, if you taunt a mob 3 times in 18 seconds, it will go immune to taunts until 18 seconds from the last taunt.
As a tank(Pally anyhow at least) you do not focus on hit. Unlike DPS(and maybe other tanks, not sure) hit is really not that important. Most GOOD tank gear comes with hit or expertise and both are good. Never gem for hit or expertise as a tank though because Dodge/Parry/Defense/Stam ALL outweigh it ALL the time. I've never gear/gem/enchanted for Hit and I tank TotC25 and 10H so no problems. I am sure you are not at fault :) GL next round.
Whoever suggested it was your fault for not being hit capped needs their tanking license revoked. I'm in all 226+ gear, about half is 245 atm, I'm still not hit capped, it is not something I worry about or concentrate on. No tank should gem or enchant for hit, its just not necessary.
Taunts being resisted is just something that happens and you'll just have to deal. Diminishing Returns is something that can easily be avoided though given a proper tank rotation.
I cringe every time one of the other tanks in my guild says, "oh every tank should be taunting when I call for it"
That is not a good strategy for two reasons:
1.) More tanks taunting = diminishing returns faster.
2.) More tanks taunting = healers not having a clear target.
It's best to work out a tank rotation before the fight, or call out "I got next taunt" well before it needs to happen, that way the healers no where they are going next, and you rarely hit diminishing returns.
It's one of the most frustrating things to watch someone die because both of your taunts are on cooldown because you just wasted them on a mob that is immune because the other 2 tanks just taunted as well.
Taunts being resisted is just something that happens and you'll just have to deal. Diminishing Returns is something that can easily be avoided though given a proper tank rotation.
I cringe every time one of the other tanks in my guild says, "oh every tank should be taunting when I call for it"
That is not a good strategy for two reasons:
1.) More tanks taunting = diminishing returns faster.
2.) More tanks taunting = healers not having a clear target.
It's best to work out a tank rotation before the fight, or call out "I got next taunt" well before it needs to happen, that way the healers no where they are going next, and you rarely hit diminishing returns.
It's one of the most frustrating things to watch someone die because both of your taunts are on cooldown because you just wasted them on a mob that is immune because the other 2 tanks just taunted as well.
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