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Shaman 'tanking'Follow

#1 Sep 01 2009 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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I just came across a thread on MMO-Champion where someone was asking if Shaman could tank. I know that they could do some in vanilla WoW, but not so much since then. Later in the thread though someone linked a few youtube videos of a Shaman tanking, 2 of the vids being 10 man Freya and Ignis. The Shaman being referred to is Sharicasmi from the Masquers guild on Chromaggus for any who want to look him up.

Anyway, I was wondering 2 things. Firstly, has anyone here done this themselves? Obtained tanking gear and gone ahead and tanked anything? I always thought it would be cool if Shaman could be legit tanks, and if I had known about this guy sooner, I probably would have tried to emulate him and give it a go myself. it just looks like it would be a ton of fun!

Secondly, and to hopefully spark some discussion, do you think this will continue to be possible in Cataclysm, or will we finally see the end of Shaman tanking in WoW? The Shaman FAQ stated that Blizz has no intentions of making Shaman tanks:

Quote:
Once upon a time there was a potential tanking role for shamans as well, but we have pretty much phased that out.


Also, Cataclysm promises to "simplify" gear even more by getting rid of certain stats, including defense. Each tanking class will have an ability similar to Feral Druids to reach their crit immunity. This Shaman though has most, but not all, of his crit immunity from resilience: 464 resilience or -4.92% chance to be crit.

So, what do you more experienced Shamans think? I find it a very intriguing idea, particularly due to the lack of tanking abilities for Shaman. But, I suppose that could just be the part of me that remembers tanking on my Paladin before we had a taunt and all that :) I'd be very interested to see others opinions and predictions!
#2 Sep 01 2009 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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I'd put a shaman tank in the same category as a hunter tank-- it can be done, but it really shouldn't. If you can tank only when guildies/friends are focused on letting you tank, and can't do the same in a pug, you're not really a tank. There are definitely places where non-tanks can fill a tanking role (four horsemen for instance), but that's a completely different topic altogether.

With the gear changes coming in Cata, not only will Shamans/very confused Rogues/melee Hunters lose whatever minimal ability they had to tank, but off-spec Warriors and Paladins will no longer be able to switch into a tanking set as needed. It will be interesting to see how it works for Feral Druids and Death Knights, though, since those classes have tanking and DPS talents within the same tree... possibly we'll start seeing more kitty-spec Druids tanking.
#3 Sep 01 2009 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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1,094 posts
Lady isyris wrote:
very confused Rogues
Smiley: lol

Yes, it's true Shaman's tanked somewhat decently in Vanilla. A Dungeon set, I don't know if it was 1, 2 or 3, had dodge and parry on it. In TBC you could achieve it by using Druid tanking gear mixed with PvP and crammed gems and chants with certain stats. In Wrath? It works just about as good as TBC - it can be done, and people do it to be a very special, unique snowflake, but there's no point. We're not any better than the others at doing it, worse actually. I've seen that infamous Shaman tank's Armory, and his avoidances are low. Plus we can't decently hold aggro.

In the foreseeable future, Cataclysm, you could still reach cap by stacking Resilience, and that means PvP gear. Wearing PvP gear you lack avoidances, and it doesn't have enough Stam to outweigh that fact.

You want to be a special, unique snowflake? Do it with friends. Doing it without friends wont work out very well at all. But don't expect many pug's to pick you up either way.
#4 Sep 02 2009 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
There are just too many factors missing from a shaman tank for me to say it's anything more than a shaman holding aggro and taking a beating while they're spam healed. That's not tanking. That's being dumb.

The amount of defense rating you need to get from 400 defense (base max @ 80 for all classes) and 540 (crit immune for raids) is so far beyond what you could hope to get through gems/enchants along that crit immunity is not and will not be an option for non-plate "tanks" in WotLK (excluding druids, of course).

Real tanks get a passive stamina boost through talents that augments an already substantial health pool...shaman recently received a 7% boost to their base health to bring them on par with the bottom rung because previously we had the lowest base health of any class. If I'm not mistaken, there might be a talent in the Enh. tree that grants a boost to stamina, but you're adding a bit to not much.

Real tanks get passive bonuses to avoidance stats through their talents trees. Shaman...if they go far into into enhancement...get the ability to parry.

Shield tanks get talents that increase the effectiveness/frequency of blocks as well as abilities to make blocks more reliable/effective in some way at some time. Shaman get...the option to equip a shield as a base proficiency.

"Real" tank classes get a form/presence/stance/buff that dramatically increases their threat output. Shaman can skip their threat reduction talents, but can't do anything to augment their threat upwards aside from maybe a trivial boost from an Armsman glove enchant.

In short, if you look at everything "real" tank classes have in common, shamans get little/none of that. If you had 15 gem sockets available throughout all of your gear and threw epic +Def gems into them + all available +Def enchants, +Def meta gem, +Def head and shoulders glyphs and a tank shield, you still wouldn't be able to reach crit immunity. Without that, the chances of getting one-shot are substantial, and healing a spikey tank with a relatively trivial health pool would be neither easy nor fun.

There are mechanics to tanking that shaman simply lack, and being able to withstand the beating from a selective component of a particular encounter does not make someone a remotely viable tank.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2009 8:34am by AureliusSir
#5 Sep 03 2009 at 12:03 AM Rating: Good
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2,183 posts
Believe me, I know what tanking entails :) My main is a Prot Paladin. And I would never expect any Shaman to be MTing 25 man hard modes or anything crazy, but some of the easier stuff, I think it would incredibly fun to try.

Couple of more specific comments:

You mention a talent in the Enhancement tree that allows the Shaman to parry attacks. Actually this more furthers your point because the same talent also decreases threat generated by 30%, so that would be terribad to take for 'tanking'.

Lack of avoidance: yea, the Shaman would be taking almost everything the boss was throwing out, I agree.

What am I getting at you may say? Well, that Shaman I talked about in the videos, according to Armory has 19.13% dodge, 8.41% block, 438 defense (-1.52% to be crit), and 464 resilience (-4.92% to be crit) making him crit immune. Looking just now he's got 30k+ health and 20,659 armor, more health and almost as much armor as I have /shame ...

Again, I agree a Shaman would never be in a position to be a guild's MT or anything like that, but I think it would be a helluva lot of fun to try! Just damn, that would be a lot of PvP, which I don't enjoy =/

Edited, Sep 3rd 2009 1:04am by Maulgak
#6 Sep 03 2009 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
Maulgak wrote:
Believe me, I know what tanking entails :) My main is a Prot Paladin. And I would never expect any Shaman to be MTing 25 man hard modes or anything crazy, but some of the easier stuff, I think it would incredibly fun to try.


The concept reminds me of the videos from TBC of the Boomkin tanking Prince and Gruul. As you know, low avoidance + lack of passive DR and a near total lack of ******* buttons means your only option is to go in sacrificing dps output for survivability and still cranking out as much damage as you possibly can to maintain threat while relying on overgeared healers to keep you standing.
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