My druid turned 80 last weekend..woot she's # 7. Yesterday I ran H HOS..as a kitty. Now I usually either heal or tank, I have never been dps on this toon in an instance.
So, I run behind the pack of mobs and attempt to use kitty AOE swipe. Not enough energy. WTF. Er...how does this work. White hit, then swipe, more white hits, then swipe ??? Don't use it all?
Boss fight. Run behind boss, attempt to shred. Not enough energy. Ok, now I'm really confused. 5 CP up then shred? Forget shred entirely? How does this work? My dps was all over the place, because it seemed I didn't have enough energy to get in any AOE swipes or single target shreds. Or maybe my group was OP and killed stuff to fast.
So I resorted to single target dps, with CP and rip, or CP and F bite.
Any advice appreciated. Thanks
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Kitty DPS in instances - a questionFollow
Armory link plox.
Generic single target rotation is Mangle, Rake, SR, Shred to 5 CP Rip. Keep every thing up, don't overwrite Rip or Rake. Use FFF when pooling energy. Only TF when below 35 energy. Only Berserk at high energy and not during Heroism.
Pulls with 3 or more mobs is Swipe, TF when off CD and below 35 energy. Berserk at start if not going to lose the chance to use it on a boss fight.
JOHN F*CKING MADDEN
Generic single target rotation is Mangle, Rake, SR, Shred to 5 CP Rip. Keep every thing up, don't overwrite Rip or Rake. Use FFF when pooling energy. Only TF when below 35 energy. Only Berserk at high energy and not during Heroism.
Pulls with 3 or more mobs is Swipe, TF when off CD and below 35 energy. Berserk at start if not going to lose the chance to use it on a boss fight.
JOHN F*CKING MADDEN
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Amendment to the multi-mob dps: get a combo point or two and Savage Roar for more damage, then swipe-spam. Otherwise that's right, you keep using white attacks and hitting the button, hoping for omen of clarity procs and supplimenting your energy with Tiger's Fury and maybe Berserk.
BTW Horse, why use FFF when pooling energy? It only does damage in bearform, and lasts five minutes.
BTW Horse, why use FFF when pooling energy? It only does damage in bearform, and lasts five minutes.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aegwynn&n=Nithiel
don't cry about the gear, my healing set is what i've been working on first.
feral is next.
and as for shred, maybe I don't understand how the energy is reclaimed, but i spent a lot of time just white hitting. Is this normal or am I missing something.
don't cry about the gear, my healing set is what i've been working on first.
feral is next.
and as for shred, maybe I don't understand how the energy is reclaimed, but i spent a lot of time just white hitting. Is this normal or am I missing something.
selebrin of the Seven Seas wrote:
BTW Horse, why use FFF when pooling energy? It only does damage in bearform, and lasts five minutes.
The debuff still helps and it gives you something to do. Mainly the latter.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Xenexia wrote:
and as for shred, maybe I don't understand how the energy is reclaimed, but i spent a lot of time just white hitting. Is this normal or am I missing something.
This is do to missing Shredding Attacks which greatly reduces the cost of Shred and not having the full affect of TF.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Gone are the BC days where one spec would offer you the ability to Tank more or less to the best of what a bear could offer while at the same time Cat DPS to the best of what a cat could offer.
If you want to Tank, you need a Tank spec. If you want to DPS, you need a DPS spec. If you hybrid the two, you're going to be lacking when you want to concentrate on one role.
If you don't have shredding attacks (which you don't), then you can't shred and still have energy to use on other stuff. You're going to find yourself doing more white damage than anything because you're blowing 60 energy every time you shred where as all the DPS specced ferals are only blowing 42. That's an 18 energy difference for every single Shred.
If you don't want to spec into Shredding Attacks because it doesn't fit your play style when you are going to be feral, then the simplest thing you can do, is to mangle in place of shred except when you get ooc procs, then you can shred. Without Shredding Attacks and without an ooc proc, Mangle is a lot more efficient energy to damage output ratio.
Then there's King of the Jungle. A talent that would give you an extra 60 Energy every 30 seconds. You've only specced 1/3rd of it. So all the DPS specced cats are going to have 40 more energy than you every 30secs.
Then there's Heart of the Wild. You're missing 12% AP boost because you've only taken 3/5ths of the talent.
ETC
If you want to Tank, you need a Tank spec. If you want to DPS, you need a DPS spec. If you hybrid the two, you're going to be lacking when you want to concentrate on one role.
If you don't have shredding attacks (which you don't), then you can't shred and still have energy to use on other stuff. You're going to find yourself doing more white damage than anything because you're blowing 60 energy every time you shred where as all the DPS specced ferals are only blowing 42. That's an 18 energy difference for every single Shred.
If you don't want to spec into Shredding Attacks because it doesn't fit your play style when you are going to be feral, then the simplest thing you can do, is to mangle in place of shred except when you get ooc procs, then you can shred. Without Shredding Attacks and without an ooc proc, Mangle is a lot more efficient energy to damage output ratio.
Then there's King of the Jungle. A talent that would give you an extra 60 Energy every 30 seconds. You've only specced 1/3rd of it. So all the DPS specced cats are going to have 40 more energy than you every 30secs.
Then there's Heart of the Wild. You're missing 12% AP boost because you've only taken 3/5ths of the talent.
ETC
Torzak of Carbuncle(Moved To Asura)
Thanks for all the good stuff. I mostly either just tank or heal. Never did cat form in an instance before. So...now I understand. I'll have to see exactly where I'm going with her, whether as a full time tank or full time dps.
The spec I have is what i picked while leveling. I just hit 80 on Sunday. All i do know is that my second spec will be resto, because we are usually short healers.
Thanks again. (-:
The spec I have is what i picked while leveling. I just hit 80 on Sunday. All i do know is that my second spec will be resto, because we are usually short healers.
Thanks again. (-:
Horsemouth wrote:
selebrin of the Seven Seas wrote:
BTW Horse, why use FFF when pooling energy? It only does damage in bearform, and lasts five minutes.
The debuff still helps and it gives you something to do. Mainly the latter.
Ah. I tend to assume it goes up on the pull, because, well, I throw it up on the pull while waiting for the tank to get enough threat that a crit string won't kill me. Let's hear it for a 55-60% crit rate!
Torzak speaks the truth, if you want to do one or the other you are going to want to prioritize your feral tree accordingly. Trying to mix and match tankng and dps talents to do both is just going to result in fail. Maybe it works for some people but for me personally, it does not and I feel gimped with such a spec.
Everything else said is pretty logical. A true swipe spam rotation is impossible as the energy costs prohibit that, but getting close to such can be done. It's all about priority. Starting out an aoe fight with 100 energy you'll get two immediate swipes off without trying to buff yourself with Savage Roar and a 3rd will come from using Tiger's Fury. One energy tic later and you've got a 4th. After that though you'll only be able to swipe again roughly every 4 seconds, but on trash aoe pulls you usually won't be in combat much longer than that. While getting a combo point to put up SR is ideal for more damage while swiping, I personally have found it doesn't make a huge difference. Especially when the goal is to win individual fight records for Recount. A non-SR swipe spam rotation on a trash aoe pull beats them all. Except maybe rogues with their fan of knives.
Everything else said is pretty logical. A true swipe spam rotation is impossible as the energy costs prohibit that, but getting close to such can be done. It's all about priority. Starting out an aoe fight with 100 energy you'll get two immediate swipes off without trying to buff yourself with Savage Roar and a 3rd will come from using Tiger's Fury. One energy tic later and you've got a 4th. After that though you'll only be able to swipe again roughly every 4 seconds, but on trash aoe pulls you usually won't be in combat much longer than that. While getting a combo point to put up SR is ideal for more damage while swiping, I personally have found it doesn't make a huge difference. Especially when the goal is to win individual fight records for Recount. A non-SR swipe spam rotation on a trash aoe pull beats them all. Except maybe rogues with their fan of knives.
Until you add in the chance for T8 to proc clearcasting off your initial Rake bleed. Besides, if you really want to pad meters, you use Berserk. Not that I've ever done that on Hodir trash......
Horsemouth wrote:
A full cat spec. Do this if you have a Mangle *****
Why take Natural Reaction (which does nothing at all) and Survival Instincts (which you'd hope you wouldn't have to use) in a full cat spec?
Wouldn't those points be better used in some combination of Feral Aggression/Improved Mangle?
Jibini wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
A full cat spec. Do this if you have a Mangle *****
Why take Natural Reaction (which does nothing at all) and Survival Instincts (which you'd hope you wouldn't have to use) in a full cat spec?
Wouldn't those points be better used in some combination of Feral Aggression/Improved Mangle?
Well if you have a Mangle ***** you never use Mangle so Imp Mangle becomes useless.
SI is too awesome to pass up at the cost of a single point.
NR was filler, FA would be better.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Imp Mangle still helps for fights like Kologarn, and Hodir hard-mode (depending on how your guild does it, we run to the tank first with storm cloud).
Horsemouth wrote:
Generic single target rotation is Mangle, Rake, SR, Shred to 5 CP Rip. Keep every thing up, don't overwrite Rip or Rake. Use FFF when pooling energy. Only TF when below 35 energy. Only Berserk at high energy and not during Heroism.
Assuming there's a Mangle ***** somewhere, wouldn't an opener followed by Savage Roar and then Rake be more efficient? The way I read it, if you have a Mangle ***** in the group, you'd want to do something like:
Opener/Shred, Savage Roar, Rake, Shred to 5 combo points and Rip, refill combo points using a priority system where Savage Roar, Rip and Rake are to be kept up at all times, Savage Roar at 5 combo points and Rip at at least 4?
Edited, Aug 23rd 2009 12:21am by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Rip at 5, savage roar at whatever you think will let you keep it up until you reapply Rip. If you have less than 10 sec on Rip, and SR will drop at close to the same time, throw up a 1 CP SR and then build CP for a 5-pt Rip.
Even with a Mangle-*****/trauma-*****, there's a chance it won't be up when you start your own rotation. If you're sure it will be, I would still go Rake => SR => Shred. This way, rake is only at 130% and Shred has a ~210% mult from having a bleed, Mangle, and SR up. Open with Shred, and you've only got 130% shred and a 170% rake.
Even with a Mangle-*****/trauma-*****, there's a chance it won't be up when you start your own rotation. If you're sure it will be, I would still go Rake => SR => Shred. This way, rake is only at 130% and Shred has a ~210% mult from having a bleed, Mangle, and SR up. Open with Shred, and you've only got 130% shred and a 170% rake.
I'm kind of having trouble with the Kitty rotation and dps part.
I suck at keeping Feral fury (or whatever) and that other combo skill that pumps your AP aswell.
Plus Im having trouble with the Energy, I start with mangle, then rake, then if possible I do that back attack, if not I do more rake/mangle until I get enough points to Rip and so on.
But damn I cant go over 3k (my gear aint that good) im mostly sitting on low 2ks, but on my personal sight of things, I think im touching too my "Not enough energy" places way too often.
Iono if theres a trick to get energy faster or am I missing a skill that gives/reduces costs besides improve mangle, and my build (down on my sig) its the hybrid cat/bear thing.
I suck at keeping Feral fury (or whatever) and that other combo skill that pumps your AP aswell.
Plus Im having trouble with the Energy, I start with mangle, then rake, then if possible I do that back attack, if not I do more rake/mangle until I get enough points to Rip and so on.
But damn I cant go over 3k (my gear aint that good) im mostly sitting on low 2ks, but on my personal sight of things, I think im touching too my "Not enough energy" places way too often.
Iono if theres a trick to get energy faster or am I missing a skill that gives/reduces costs besides improve mangle, and my build (down on my sig) its the hybrid cat/bear thing.
You need 3/3 King of the Jungle for DPS. Also, the 4% crit from Master Shapeshifter helps your kitty DPS rotation a lot. Here's the thing... You can't get really good DPS and still be a good tank with a cat-bear spec. There aren't enough talent points to cover all the really good talents you want to get.
Once you get Tiger's Fury, a normal opener looks something like this:
FFF as you're running in, Kitty Charge (optional), Mangle, Savage Roar, Rake, Tiger's Fury, Shred, Shred, Shred (if less than 5 CP), Rip.
Also, glyph of Shred is better than Rip, it gives 6 sec on most Rips instead of 4.
Once you get Tiger's Fury, a normal opener looks something like this:
FFF as you're running in, Kitty Charge (optional), Mangle, Savage Roar, Rake, Tiger's Fury, Shred, Shred, Shred (if less than 5 CP), Rip.
Also, glyph of Shred is better than Rip, it gives 6 sec on most Rips instead of 4.
But will speccing full kitty actually help at the energy thing? I mean taking out the hassle of tigers fury and Whatever Roar, I seem to be bad with energy, I'm starting to think that I'm kind of a Bear person
Tiger's Fury gives you 60 energy every 30 sec, so yeah, it will help. What will also help is something a lot of bears have trouble with. Bears are GCD-capped. We want to hit an ability every GCD, because Rage is effectively unlimited. As a cat, you need to wait and watch your bleed and buff timers. Save your energy so that you can refresh Mangle and Rake as soon as the fall off (or 1-2 sec early, for Mangle). Watch the timer on Rip and Savage Roar so you always have SR up, and you have 5 CP either when Rip drops, or within a second or two. Forget you even have Ferocious Bite until you start getting tier set bonuses. If you hit 5 CP and Rip still has a lot of time on it, renew SR again. If Rip is almost up and you're near full energy, go ahead and waste CP and Shred again. If Rip and Shred are going to run out at the same time, use a 1-2 CP SR and then build CP for Rip.
In order of importance, you want to keep up:
Savage Roar
Mangle
Rip
Rake
FFF
Shred is really good, but it's your filler ability. It's what you use when you don't need to worry about anything else.
In order of importance, you want to keep up:
Savage Roar
Mangle
Rip
Rake
FFF
Shred is really good, but it's your filler ability. It's what you use when you don't need to worry about anything else.
AstarintheDruid wrote:
Rip at 5, savage roar at whatever you think will let you keep it up until you reapply Rip. If you have less than 10 sec on Rip, and SR will drop at close to the same time, throw up a 1 CP SR and then build CP for a 5-pt Rip.
Gone are the days where you would pop Rip at 4pts to prevent loss of combo points on potential crits?
Edited, Aug 23rd 2009 10:25pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Yeah, pretty much. Rip scales so much better now with AP, there's actually a big difference between 4 and 5 CP. About 25% more just looking at the tooltip.
Question while we're at it, is it possible to solo BC instances and lower with a full kitty spec or a half kitty/bear or bear spec is needed for that?
Also, any recommendations for a full bear spec? Theres half and full kitty (mangle or no mangle *****) but no bear :( as in a personal recommendation, i know there are some on the stickies :x
Also, any recommendations for a full bear spec? Theres half and full kitty (mangle or no mangle *****) but no bear :( as in a personal recommendation, i know there are some on the stickies :x
my usual boss rotation (not what most people do but it works for me) is
Mangle, SR, Rake, Tiger's Fury, Shred to 5, Berserk, pop any useable trinkets (gives time for a small amount of energy to build up to pump out some nice burst damage before having to wait on energy), Mangle, SR, Rip, Shred to 5, Bite, Shred till berserk is over, Rip (should be at 5cp if you have decent crit), Mangle, SR (at this point keep SR at 2 combo points or higher, preferably 5 but different situations call for different uses)
If your crit is high enough and you get lucky and crit enough, ive gotten 2 5cp bites and a 5 cp rip off during a single berserk, without any debuff downtime
Main reason for a slightly off rotation is that for the first 30 or so seconds i'm maximizing my DPS on the boss and maximizing CD use so i'll have them up again sooner (mainly for long raid bosses)
Usual trash rotation (3+ mobs)
Mangle, SR, Tiger's Fury, Swipe mash
Again, like already said, dont berserk during a bloodlust, if you know when its going to be used plan around that
With all heroic gear other than t8 chest/head i put out around 3,700 - 4,200 dps on static 5 man heroic bosses with minimal buffs assuming i keep my SR up (i frequently get absent minded in heroics and forget it for entire boss fights XD)
If anyone wants to comment on how horrible my rotation is i'm open to suggestions, but so far this works the best for me out of what i've tried
edit
forgot to add FFF as your running to a dps position on a boss
Edited, Aug 23rd 2009 7:52pm by OMGEverythingIsTaken
Mangle, SR, Rake, Tiger's Fury, Shred to 5, Berserk, pop any useable trinkets (gives time for a small amount of energy to build up to pump out some nice burst damage before having to wait on energy), Mangle, SR, Rip, Shred to 5, Bite, Shred till berserk is over, Rip (should be at 5cp if you have decent crit), Mangle, SR (at this point keep SR at 2 combo points or higher, preferably 5 but different situations call for different uses)
If your crit is high enough and you get lucky and crit enough, ive gotten 2 5cp bites and a 5 cp rip off during a single berserk, without any debuff downtime
Main reason for a slightly off rotation is that for the first 30 or so seconds i'm maximizing my DPS on the boss and maximizing CD use so i'll have them up again sooner (mainly for long raid bosses)
Usual trash rotation (3+ mobs)
Mangle, SR, Tiger's Fury, Swipe mash
Again, like already said, dont berserk during a bloodlust, if you know when its going to be used plan around that
With all heroic gear other than t8 chest/head i put out around 3,700 - 4,200 dps on static 5 man heroic bosses with minimal buffs assuming i keep my SR up (i frequently get absent minded in heroics and forget it for entire boss fights XD)
If anyone wants to comment on how horrible my rotation is i'm open to suggestions, but so far this works the best for me out of what i've tried
edit
forgot to add FFF as your running to a dps position on a boss
Edited, Aug 23rd 2009 7:52pm by OMGEverythingIsTaken
Quote:
pop any useable trinkets (gives time for a small amount of energy to build up to pump out some nice burst damage before having to wait on energy)
On use trinkets don't impose a GCD wait time. There's zero reason to pop Berserk, followed by 'waiting' for energy to fill up as you use trinkets. That's silly.
Quote:
If your crit is high enough and you get lucky and crit enough, ive gotten 2 5cp bites and a 5 cp rip off during a single berserk
This should be impossible if you're using Berserk efficiently. Popping a FB in the middle of Berserk is like kissing energy good bye. The only time you use FB while berserked is if your energy is down below like 20 or something. And if it's that low to be using FB then one of two things happened: 1) Berserk is about to wear off and you've shredded all your energy away which is quite normal or 2) You popped berserk at less than an optimal amount of energy and you didn't have the energy there to spam shred for the full duration of berserk.
However you look at it, you shouldn't be able to use FB twice during Berserk without it being less than an efficient use of Berserk. There are occasions on 5man content bosses I could see myself using Berserk inefficient like that, but it'd only be because everyone was doing 5k+ DPS and I was making an attempt to edge them out in what was going to be a less than 20second fight anyway.
Torzak of Carbuncle(Moved To Asura)
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