I typically frequent the druid forums, but have recently been leveling my long forgotten rogue. (For knowledge on my experience, I have level 80 druid, shammy and DK, level 71 mage and level 70 hunter)
I had one up to 39 pre-TBC, but deleted him in a drunken fury one night, forever to forget his name.
Anyway, I've been leveling Combat Swords(currently level 38), having picked up the two heirloom ones available. I find myself able to solo mobs up to 6 levels higher than me with careful use of cool-downs.
I've read quite a few of the posts on this forum, but really it's probably going to be a matter of personal choice.
I've seen, and been told, that combat swords (or Fist/Sword) is a very viable raiding spec. All the rogues in my guild currently however are using the standard Mut(daggers) spec. When asked about why they prefer it, I typically get "It's more fun," or "Rogues should use daggers."
I guess what I'm asking is what makes mut so much more fun than combat at max level? Is there a huge difference in dps between specs, or is it completely dependant on which weapons you get an upgrade for first?
I figure I'll level at least to 50-70 as combat swords just to get the use out of my swords (Which I'm consistantly doing 100-135dps with bursts up around 175 at my current level) and wtfpwning people in bg brackets along the way, then probably dual spec into a raiding spec and either the Mut or ShD pvp spec.
I'm just trying to decide if I want to go Mut or Combat at 80 for raiding because I'd like to switch around 70 to start getting used to the play-style.
Here's an armory in case you care to have a look at my current gear Revengery
Thanks ahead of time for you opinions.
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A few thoughts:
Level combat swords until you hit 50, and switch to mutilate to try it out. You won't be disappointed. To answer your question, a lot of players got sick of sinister strike x 5, eviscerate x1, repeat; back in pre-bc. Mutilates new found home as a top dps spec was a welcome change for dedicated raiders. However, at 80, you should probably spec to your gear availability, as that will result in the highest dps output.
I personally like mutilate b/c it's not always a standard rotation, but more prioritization. Energy usage, poolage, and monitoring has taken over the old mash #2 button. I'm our raids mutilate rogue, and our combat rogue does out dps me (we are both always top 3, with a warrior, spriest, or DK sometimes sneaking in there), but he mainly does so b/c his weapons are superior to mine.
Good luck!
Level combat swords until you hit 50, and switch to mutilate to try it out. You won't be disappointed. To answer your question, a lot of players got sick of sinister strike x 5, eviscerate x1, repeat; back in pre-bc. Mutilates new found home as a top dps spec was a welcome change for dedicated raiders. However, at 80, you should probably spec to your gear availability, as that will result in the highest dps output.
I personally like mutilate b/c it's not always a standard rotation, but more prioritization. Energy usage, poolage, and monitoring has taken over the old mash #2 button. I'm our raids mutilate rogue, and our combat rogue does out dps me (we are both always top 3, with a warrior, spriest, or DK sometimes sneaking in there), but he mainly does so b/c his weapons are superior to mine.
Good luck!
Thanks for the quick reply. I'm bored at work, so I've been reading pretty much the entire first 2 pages worth of rogue threads.
Unrelated to my question, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I looked at your armory and isn't the hit cap 8% for specials now? I know that the majority of rogue dps is typically white damage and that offhand attacks can always use any hit that you get extra from gear, but wouldn't it be a dps loss for you to be gemming above the 8% soft cap with hit gems instead of using Agility gems?
EDIT: Also, I figure I'll pick up two of the heirloom daggers for Mut at 50 and see what it's all about. I don't have anything better to do with my time between raids besides level my alts and roflferaldruidarena pvp. AMG WAH TEH KITTEH ON MAH FACE!
Edited, Aug 14th 2009 8:18pm by Galenmoon
Unrelated to my question, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I looked at your armory and isn't the hit cap 8% for specials now? I know that the majority of rogue dps is typically white damage and that offhand attacks can always use any hit that you get extra from gear, but wouldn't it be a dps loss for you to be gemming above the 8% soft cap with hit gems instead of using Agility gems?
EDIT: Also, I figure I'll pick up two of the heirloom daggers for Mut at 50 and see what it's all about. I don't have anything better to do with my time between raids besides level my alts and roflferaldruidarena pvp. AMG WAH TEH KITTEH ON MAH FACE!
Edited, Aug 14th 2009 8:18pm by Galenmoon
In regards to the 8% hit cap, mutilate rogues SHOULD TRY and get 315 poison hit cap. However, it isn't the biggest fail since the beginning of failures. The number drops if you have a constant Imp faerie fire boomkin, or spriest in your raids. Poisons do around 30% of your damage, so if you're missing your poison procs, you're gimping your deeps.
As Mr. Magnum stated, a lot of rogues are just not wanting to go back to the old school combat setup. I'll be honest and say I love mutilate because it's a million times easier to use than combat. It gets even easier if you have an arms/fury warrior, or a feral druid providing you bleeds for your HFB refreshment.
As for leveling as mutilate, I personally feel like you have a little bit more control over your target. The combo point regeneration is ridiculous, so you're never in need of them. Killing Spree, Adrenaline Rush, and blade flurry are nice, but you won't ever really get hit if you play mutilate right, anyways.
They are mainly personal preference, but I played mutilate, some, back in BC just because I found it more fun.
Edited, Aug 15th 2009 1:02am by Feyras
As Mr. Magnum stated, a lot of rogues are just not wanting to go back to the old school combat setup. I'll be honest and say I love mutilate because it's a million times easier to use than combat. It gets even easier if you have an arms/fury warrior, or a feral druid providing you bleeds for your HFB refreshment.
As for leveling as mutilate, I personally feel like you have a little bit more control over your target. The combo point regeneration is ridiculous, so you're never in need of them. Killing Spree, Adrenaline Rush, and blade flurry are nice, but you won't ever really get hit if you play mutilate right, anyways.
They are mainly personal preference, but I played mutilate, some, back in BC just because I found it more fun.
Edited, Aug 15th 2009 1:02am by Feyras
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Thanks for the reminder Feyras. I had completely forgotten that the hit cap for poisons was based off spell hit. Obviously as Mutilate with your main attack being buffed by having poisons up, plus the added damage of the poisons themselves, reaching that point is rather important.
At this point I'm abusing my poor druid who doesn't need anything from anything except emblems of triumph by making him run heroics to get me a couple of the heirloom daggers for my attempts at Mutilate at 51. I've already picked up one, so will pick up another soon.
I have to admit, with the gear my rogue's in right now at 38, I feel more than slightly OP rocking through mobs 4-6 levels higher than me and demolishing people in pvp. My druid could also solo higher level mobs but neither him nor my shammy were ever much good at pvp except in the glory days of resto drood pvp. It's a nice feeling actually being able to pwn some face in pvp.
At this point I'm abusing my poor druid who doesn't need anything from anything except emblems of triumph by making him run heroics to get me a couple of the heirloom daggers for my attempts at Mutilate at 51. I've already picked up one, so will pick up another soon.
I have to admit, with the gear my rogue's in right now at 38, I feel more than slightly OP rocking through mobs 4-6 levels higher than me and demolishing people in pvp. My druid could also solo higher level mobs but neither him nor my shammy were ever much good at pvp except in the glory days of resto drood pvp. It's a nice feeling actually being able to pwn some face in pvp.
I'm too lazy to read this whole thread, maybe I will later. But I'm tired right now.
Simple answer: Spec for the weapons you get. I'm combat cause I have a Uld25 sword and a ToC25 Axe, if I got better daggers than I have Sword/Axe now I would go Muti.
Simple answer: Spec for the weapons you get. I'm combat cause I have a Uld25 sword and a ToC25 Axe, if I got better daggers than I have Sword/Axe now I would go Muti.
Rogue spec in vanilla: Combat daggers > all due to there being NO OTHER WEAPONS AVAILABLE EVER
Rogue spec in tbc: Combat swords > all
Rogue spec in tbc: Combat xxy or Mutilate > all
Wait, choice? OMG ROGUES HAVE A CHOICE! **** COMBAT YAY!
Is pretty much how it went down. It's personal preference, and what you have weapons for. I have weapons for both specs.. but I'm still sick of combat. I have a combat pvp offspec at the moment in case I end up queing against a lot of rogue teams, but other than that I'm still pvp mut. When I raided, it was mut all the way because it's more enjoyable. More to manage than "pop cd's during lust" and all together the change alone is just nice.
Rogue spec in tbc: Combat swords > all
Rogue spec in tbc: Combat xxy or Mutilate > all
Wait, choice? OMG ROGUES HAVE A CHOICE! **** COMBAT YAY!
Is pretty much how it went down. It's personal preference, and what you have weapons for. I have weapons for both specs.. but I'm still sick of combat. I have a combat pvp offspec at the moment in case I end up queing against a lot of rogue teams, but other than that I'm still pvp mut. When I raided, it was mut all the way because it's more enjoyable. More to manage than "pop cd's during lust" and all together the change alone is just nice.
Yeah, that seems to be the general consensus from all the rogues who were combat back in BC. They love Mut because it's new and more...engrossing. I missed out on the burning out on combat, but I figure I'll go till 50 combat, switch to mut at 51, then go from there. I'll still have the heirloom weapons for either spec so I can try them out at 80.
Mut does definitely seem like something I'd enjoy more from what I've been reading/hearing.
Thanks all for the heads up.
Mut does definitely seem like something I'd enjoy more from what I've been reading/hearing.
Thanks all for the heads up.
The first couple of starting quests provide some decent daggers in both hellfire and the WotLK. There are some recent threads about what quests to do to get daggers in Borean Tundra as well.
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