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Could use help: Paladin healing in arena.Follow

#1 Aug 11 2009 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
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Hey everyone,

I'm very new to Paladin healing, (I've been my current Holy spec for just over a week now, 1-80 and even after 80 before last week, I was Ret.) so I'm still getting used to and learning all the tricks of Paladin healing. I've only been getting healing gear the last week also, so my gear isn't that good, and that could also be the source of some problems here. So keep in mind, my Holy Paladin is only just over a week old.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Borean+Tundra&n=Furiden
I'd like to ask you all some questions though, if that's alright.

1. I'm doing 2v2 with a good friend who happens to be a Warrior right now. I also have a friend who's more geared than me, who's a Death Knight. I'll be doing 2s with both of them. With our current gear, how high do you think we should be able to get in arena, if we're decent / good, over time? Notice we're **** rating right now, but we've only done arena one night, I mean we didn't do that well, but yeah, it's just after like 10-15 games...We're not total ****, we'll get up there.

2. Is my spec okay for arena PvP? It's what I've seen some of the top rated Paladins in 3v3 using, (Oh also, going to be doing 3v3 with my Warrior and DK buddies, hopefully that works out...) so hopefully it works out. I've heard that there's some Prot/Holy spec out there that really owns right now. If you know about that, can you throw up a link. Tell me how that works really? I've never tried it..I also hear that's getting nerfed though, apparently before next season that's probably out before the end of this month. Might as well make the most use of it now, if it really is pro. I'm really interested in that Prot/Holy spec.

3. Um, I've been gearing for mp5 rather than crit, as you may have noticed. Not sure if this was a good decision or not. Thing was, I had started playing Holy Paladin right after they nerfed Illumination, among other crit talents / benefits. I figured in the upcoming season mp5 might actually be a better stat, so I started gearing for that over crit. As of now with my limited arena experience, not sure if I regret this decision or not. Sometimes I feel like if I would've crit, I would've had the extra healing power to keep up my partner...My mana regen seems pretty decent though, I've outlasted a couple other healers, but they may have been terribadly geared...not sure. Opinions on this decision?

4. For you Holy Paladins who team with Warriors out there, any tips? I'm sure playing with my DK partner will be much easier, but I want to get competent with my Warrior friend. With my Warrior friend I feel like I can't really make use of line of sight that much. He's always charging around, chasing after people across the map, I feel like I can't stay by my line of sight objects and make adequate use of them, because he'll go out of range. Is this common?

5. Any general tips would be appreciated. I'm going in to Paladin healing in arena blind, I'm just learning everything first hand.


Note: I might edit in some questions if I think of any more later, if that's okay. Also if there's any Paladins like me out there that have some questions, feel free to post them in this thread.

Note2: This whole not being able to see what you're typing at the end of an Allakhazam post, really blows. My sidebar in the area I'm typing keeps spamming up and down with every keystroke, I can't see what I'm typing at all, so many errors probably...Driving me crazy, haha.
#2 Aug 11 2009 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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LordDrazhar wrote:

2. Is my spec okay for arena PvP? It's what I've seen some of the top rated Paladins in 3v3 using, (Oh also, going to be doing 3v3 with my Warrior and DK buddies, hopefully that works out...) so hopefully it works out. I've heard that there's some Prot/Holy spec out there that really owns right now. If you know about that, can you throw up a link. Tell me how that works really? I've never tried it..I also hear that's getting nerfed though, apparently before next season that's probably out before the end of this month. Might as well make the most use of it now, if it really is pro. I'm really interested in that Prot/Holy spec.


The Prot/Holy spec looks more or less like this. It is getting nerfed, the extent to which is unknown right now, so you're right, it may not be worth learning for 2 weeks, although it is pretty darned fun right now.

The basic rule is, stack Stamina. Thanks to Touched By The Light your Spellpower will go through the roof accordingly, and your Flash of Light will crit for 10k even in the crappiest of gear. You also have endless mana with endless Divine Plea but you need to manage that carefully. You're playing with a plate wearer so you can spare that healing reduction some of the time. This is also an extremely survivable spec, which is what really pisses people off. Add in the stun every 20 seconds and the silence every 30 and you can see why people enjoy it.

The downside is you have no instant heals and are therefore extremely vulnerable to being shut down by good interruptors.

I'll leave your other questions to others because I stink at arena.

Edited, Aug 11th 2009 4:13pm by teacake
#3 Aug 11 2009 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the response, Teacake.

Yeah, that's what I was worried about man. No instant heals seem like good interruptor's or good CC teams are just going to work me over. There's people good enough to interrupt my FoL's at low ratings, high rating's they'll get even more of them. Seems like a huge flaw to that spec in pvp healing.

Although the benefits do seem very, very nice.

Guess I'll try it out sometime. I'd probalby need to all gem stam huh?
#4 Aug 11 2009 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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LordDrazhar wrote:
Seems like a huge flaw to that spec in pvp healing.


It is a huge flaw, but right now you'll still see a lot of people using that spec because the benefits are so silly. If your partner is good at peeling people off you it can be fabulous in 2's, or so I hear. I don't think anyone really uses it in 3's or 5's. It is a gimmick spec but sometimes those are just fun to goof around with.

I use it mainly in BG's and world PVP and it is damn fun in that context. It has some good offensive capability as well, but then again, throw on Seal of Light, judge Light, and use Concentration Aura, and you will do no damage at all to anyone including the squirrels running by, but you can defend a node against a bazillion people for an hour or so. I love watching them get all mad and sloppy. ;)


Edited to remove the new aura I'd invented, "consecration aura." Wonder what that would look like?

Edited, Aug 12th 2009 8:38am by teacake
#5 Aug 12 2009 at 12:06 AM Rating: Good
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http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eldre%27Thalas&n=Rengis


I play prot spec in 2s and 3s, hit 2300+ in both

I would stay with holy right now, prot is getting nerfed for next season, no point learning it, just stick with holy.


Gear wise, you guys are fine, a few things could be upgraded like the blues but its not a huge deal. Practice, keybinds, awareness will help infinitely more then +30 to a bunch of stats. The best priest on my old server started WoTLK late, like deep into S5 as a priest (who weren't that good then). Went into arena wearing a ridiculous amount of brutal glad gear (level *70*) and hit 2500+ still wearing 70 gear.

Experience + teamwork, coordination, the gear will come but work on games. Who cares about your team rating right now and your win/loss ratio, as long as you never go around bragging like you're pro, nobody should ever give you crap about it.





Random PVP tips

- hit ALT-V in arena to show enemy name plates, you should always keep an eye on your partners positioning then watch the enemy name plates, those can tell you when they're target switching, when they're chasing you to CC you
- always watch for the fast enemy target swaps, immediately sacred shield whoever is the swap target then flash of light them
- positioning is what wins/loses most games for paladins, having that angle to heal your partner but also to deny that enemy druid from cycloning you. Constant position shifting to keep your partner in LOS and enemies out.
- use Gladius mod, dont ask, just get it
- right click enemies on Gladius, set them as your focus target (the ones who will CC you). Watch the cast bar, watch the positioning
- mages are generally your most dangerous enemy in arena - counterspell destroys pallies - sitting in 3 sheeps with trinket + bubble down someone dies

Edited, Aug 12th 2009 4:16am by mikelolol
#6 Aug 12 2009 at 4:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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mikelolol wrote:
I play prot spec in 2s and 3s, hit 2300+ in both


Grats on your great season! Some of your team names frighten me.

mikelolol wrote:

I would stay with holy right now, prot is getting nerfed for next season, no point learning it, just stick with holy.


As a side note, I like to read the AJ forums for tips on spec and so forth, and it made me giggle yesterday when I found people in both the priest and paladin forums talking about how their class had been ruined and they'd be the worst healers next season. Nobody ever thinks they deserved the nerf and they always think they got nerfed the most. Except DK's, whose nerfs come in the form of buffs.

mikelolol wrote:
you should always keep an eye on your partners positioning then watch the enemy name plates ... always watch for the fast enemy target swaps ... Constant position shifting to keep your partner in LOS and enemies out ... Watch the cast bar, watch the positioning


I still can't do all this. Watch my bar, watch his bar, watch the Gladius bars, and not just the health portions of those bars, but every bit of information there, and oh that's right, watch where the actual people are, and also where the pillars are, and where the ouch is. I tend to miss things. I'm sure this has a lot to do with the fact that I play Arena as seldom as possible. Practice, grasshopper.
#7 Aug 12 2009 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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teacake wrote:

Grats on your great season! Some of your team names frighten me.


Thanks, making a last minute push for glad but I don't think we'll do it. I definately have some strange team names, to be fair I didn't make them ^^

teacake wrote:
As a side note, I like to read the AJ forums for tips on spec and so forth, and it made me giggle yesterday when I found people in both the priest and paladin forums talking about how their class had been ruined and they'd be the worst healers next season. Nobody ever thinks they deserved the nerf and they always think they got nerfed the most. Except DK's, whose nerfs come in the form of buffs.


Yeah holy is definately still strong. Ideally I would have played holy in 3v3 this season, but the whole prot gemming thing being so different then the holy gemming, I just stayed prot. I'll be kind of relieved to go holy for good next season, I'm just a bit worried about 2v2, not having enough CC/mana to win games. But in 3v3/5v5 it's fine. I think holy will be the most challenging 2v2 spec of all the healers since shamans got buffed. But the world is not ending.

teacake wrote:
I still can't do all this. Watch my bar, watch his bar, watch the Gladius bars, and not just the health portions of those bars, but every bit of information there, and oh that's right, watch where the actual people are, and also where the pillars are, and where the ouch is. I tend to miss things. I'm sure this has a lot to do with the fact that I play Arena as seldom as possible. Practice, grasshopper.


It's definately practice, and nobody is perfect. I watch alot of top videos, some by deadly gladiators, and they're facing like 2750 teams and people still get caught in the open at that level. It happens in tournaments for $10,000, it happens in the best teams in the world, nobody is perfect at it.
#8 Aug 12 2009 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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mikelolol wrote:
I think holy will be the most challenging 2v2 spec of all the healers


I think so too. Conversation from my house the other night:

ME: I need to level that priest. I can't play my pally next season.
HIM: Why not?
ME: Because I can only play the pally well with the scrub spec. I suck too much to play Holy, I'll be OOM all the time. (Hey, it's important to be honest in a marriage).
HIM: Well you already have a priest at 80.
ME: No I need to level the new one.
HIM: Why?
ME: The old one is Undead.
HIM: Arcane Torrent?
ME: Better hair.
#9 Aug 12 2009 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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The most important racial of all :P



Actually I think priests are very complicated. Paladins are still easy, they're just going to be weaker because of the whole no offense thing. I have a priest I didn't exactly level (I did recruit a friend, and she sat on /follow from 1-60 while I ran the group through dungeons on my pally) then I went shadow from 60-80. The leveling part was easy enough, but one day I sat down and tried to setup all my keybinds, setup macros, I think I left that project half finished with a headache and haven't played my priest since.

The whole "what do I do with melee on me if I screwup one GCD I die" is stressful to me. I like the offensive abilities they have though, priests do look fun. I'll probably stick with my pally though (I'll probably be gone from the game for 1-2 months at the start of the season though).
#10 Aug 12 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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mikelolol wrote:
Actually I think priests are very complicated.


They have less survivability than paladins certainly, but that's partly offset by my playing them better. I've been a priest a lot longer, and I know what all the little buttons do and where they are and when to push them, which, not necessarily a given with the paladin. I've come to really enjoy this class and I have a lot of fun with it, but it's not really "home" for me.
#11 Aug 12 2009 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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Can paladins heal through pillars and line of sight obstacles with the new beacon of light?
#12 Aug 13 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Can paladins heal through pillars and line of sight obstacles with the new beacon of light?


I tested this, and no, we cannot.

It'd be incredibly overpowered if we could. I mean I could just beacon my friend, and then go run off behind a pillar and spam heals on myself, and keep him topped off without having to even be anywhere near the fight.

Just wouldn't be fair and wouldn't require any work to do what so ever.

Although I guess some other healers don't have to work hard to keep their teamates up anyway, so maybe it would be fair.
#13 Aug 15 2009 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I kind of really hate to double post, but it's been a couple days, and I have another question, so yeah, here it is:

Thinking about leveling some professions for my Paladin for extra stat bonuses for arena. What do you think would be the best profession(s?) to level for this sort of thing? I mean as of now I was thinking Enchanting / Tailoring might be the best for the ring enchants, and then the cape enchant from tailoring, but I don't know, I'm just speculating.

I'm not very adept at leveling professions though, it's something I hardly ever do, so if there's an easier combo out there that would yield the same or better results, please let me know.

Thanks guys.
#14 Aug 15 2009 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Blacksmithing + Engineering would be ideal for PVP.


Blacksmithing for stats (jewelcrafting is nice too). And engineering for rocket gloves to help land killing blows in arena. I dropped engineering and I'm so mad at myself now.


The reason you pick jewelcrafting or blacksmithing over say..enchanting, is you can pick whatever stats you like. Enchanting limits a holy paladin to spellpower or stamina. With JC you can make resilience gems, intellect, stamina, spellpower or anything else. Blacksmithing is probably the most flexible, you get 2 extra sockets in your gear which is what the other professions become equivalent to. But you can fill the sockets with ANY gems including the mixed ones like sp/int gems.

Honestly though, most professions are good. Even the spellpower professions are good. It's just the blacksmithing + jewelcrafting professions are the most flexible (right now). Too bad these are expensive to level.

If you don't care about the offensive value of engineering (landing kills, which is huge in arena, even as a healer), the best "stat" setup professions would be BS+JC.
#15 Aug 15 2009 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Alright, thanks for the reply Mike! Engineering sounds promising, I know those rocket gloves would probaby be huge. I help my Warrior get kills A LOT in 2s, I mean, I'd say probably 15% of our kills in arena are some sick *** fear/hammer cc string and me and he just goes nuts on the other guy and I exorcism cast / holy shock to help finish him off. I don't know how much the rocket gloves do, but if it's anything 3-4k range or more, I could see it being a huge help. Less than like 2k, I wouldn't level a profession for it though..

Yeah a friend told me I could level Tailoring / Enchanting together pretty well, by just going out and farming the cloth, making tailor gear, and disenchanting it and whatnot. Blacksmithing / Jewlcrafting sounds really nice, but I don't see how I would get the mats for everything, I don't have near enough money to just powerlevel them. I'm pretty poor since I've been buying the best enchants and whatnot for my gear as I can since I've been getting epic gear. Do you think it would be worth it just going Blacksmithing / Mining or Jewlcrafting / Mining or Engineering / Mining?

---

Hey though guys, if you don't mind, I have another spec question...No it doesn't concern Prot/Holy. Me and my Warrior have been doing 2s just fine as me deep holy, but I've been thinking of moving some things around, for a pure arena pvp spec.

My current spec, can be found on my armory here: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Borean+Tundra&cn=Furiden&gn=Real+SOVIET+Damage

Now I'm thinking of changing to something like this...: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sxAdxhMsVzItMzxGzmbh

Now as you can see I switched three talents around, and I'll tell you why.

1. I removed the talent "Light's Grace". Now I don't know if this is me "not doin it rite" or not, but I just don't really use Holy Light that much in arena, in 2s anyway. I haven't played too much 3s, and I'm not sure if it'll be much different there, so yeah, you can give your opinions / knowledge on that. Even when I use it in 2s, I hardly ever use it back to back. So I really just think this was a wasted three points for me, that I never should've had in the first place...

2. I got rid of my judgement improving talents. "Judgements of the Pure" and "Enlighted Judgements". I tried to make use of Judgements of the Pure in arena, but I'm really thinking this is more of a PvE talent. I'd have my haste buff up all the time, but I just don't see it making that much of a difference. Yeah if a Rogue is on me or a Warrior or even DK, they have .3-ish seconds less to interrupt my flash of lights, which may or may not turn out to be a big deal. I don't think the faster casting is going to reduce my healing by so much I can't keep my Warrior up under heavy pressure...Maybe I'm wrong though. What do you guys think about getting rid of that? Enlightened Judgements only seems worth it if you have Judgements of the Pure so you can keep your haste uptime 100% easier. Other than that I made rare use of Enlightened Judgements. Only one time I can think of was on Lordaeron where a Druid was booking it across the map for a drink and I could just 40yard judge him to keep him in combat. That was just me sucessfully covering my Warriors *** though...

So what I did with the points was topped off Divine Intellect, which can never hurt. Gave myself, Pure of Heart, Blessed Life, and Sacred Cleansing. Now Blessed Life I have no doubts about being useful, but I can't help but theorycraft about the other two. Pure of Heart, reduces effects of Cures, Disease, and Poison by 30%.. Now curse will be useful, no doubts there. I WANT to say Poison will be useful, but if a Rogue's on me, even if his poisons are reduced by 30%, won't he be refreshing them in time anyway? So I'm thinking the poison part is useless to be honest, and I'm not sure about the diseases. I can't even think of any real threatening diseases right now. Maybe the talent's worth two points, maybe it's not, meh. What do you all think? Also, Sacred Cleansing sounds really leet, but that's some heavy RNG right there. A 30% chance to proc to get another 30% chance to resist? So really just 9% of my cleanses will get my target a resist eh? (Did I do that math wrong? O_o) Could be game breaking when the 9% hits, but I don't know. I hate the idea of relying on RNG that much, but hell, I'm doing PvP so...guess I better get used to it, eh?

---

I don't know I'm still pretty new to the Holy Paladin PvP deal here. I'm learning a lot here on Alla so I feel comfortable coming to you guys with my questions and whatnot. Let me know what you guys think about the talent switches, if I should do them or not, etc, etc.

Thanks again guys.

Edited, Aug 15th 2009 4:58pm by LordDrazhar

Edited, Aug 15th 2009 5:06pm by LordDrazhar
#16 Aug 15 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I like lights grace better then blessed life. I look at alot of PVP paladins, its pretty rare to see people skip lights grace. Also judgements of the pure you want to max out. Not just for the 15% haste, which is awesome in all aspects of the game, but also for the 4% hit which is a free hit cap in PVP. Other healers have to gem for hit. You can't have your hammers and bursts missing.

This is how I would spec - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sxAdxhMomu0tgdxGzuro

Gear wise for next season, this is how I'd setup a starter paladin - http://www.chardev.org/?template=241700

That setup would be the honor gear, wintergrasp legs, bracers, ring, trinket, heroic ToC mace, heroic shield, and your first arena points of the season should go towards the furious libram that boosts FoL



As for professions, tailoring is too random of a proc. You can go JC/mining to save a little gold, thats what I have. But it's better just to throw gold at leveling a profession like JC'ing, instead of trying to farm all the mats yourself. You'll save lots of time in the long run just farming dailies and throwing 2500g at it instead of trying to run around the old world gathering it all.
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