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Prot healing nerf incFollow

#1 Aug 10 2009 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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4,074 posts
Dear Ghostcrawler,

You hurt my feelings when you ruined my ridiculously fun and OP spec.

In my defense, it would hurt less if deep Holy healing didn't suck so completely in PVP.

Quote:
We are going to fix the specific scenario where a PvP paladin with a Prot build but spell power gear can heal for more than a Holy build in the same gear. We want to do this without messing up the Prot paladin trying to tank in PvE.

We will probably not make this change before the end of the current Arena season, but you can be thinking about your teams for season 7 with this change in mind.


I particularly like the part where he says your teams. Not your spec, but your teams. The nerf will be swift and hard, and pally healers will be the next wallflowers, I suspect.

Edited for source, sorry.

Another edit. Here he is again in another topic. I think GC got reamed by a prot healer team recently. He seems very upset. :D

Quote:
Touched by the Light helps to solve a specific problem which is that paladins do both physical and magical damage and Prot paladins need both for threat (and damage). It works fine when the paladin is in tanking gear, and in fact was designed so that paladins wouldn't need to mix tanking gear with caster gear as they did in the past.

It is not balanced for a Prot paladin who decides to wear spell power gear. At that point you're double-dipping.

We have no problem with Prot paladins in PvP, but they need to be there because their survivability is an asset, not because they can out-heal an entire tree dedicated to healing.

There is a fine line between creative use of game mechanics and something that goes against our vision for the game. It's always going to be subjective. If the Retribution tree ended up being better at tanking than the Protection tree, or the Shadow priest was a better healer than the Disc tree, or the Marks hunter had a more powerful pet than the BM hunter, we'd take similar action.


http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/19110155361-cannot-kill-self-healing-prot-pallys.html

Of course the nerf is warranted. I just hope he's also taking a good hard look at why people felt the need to get this creative in the first place.

Edited, Aug 10th 2009 5:07pm by teacake

Edited, Aug 10th 2009 5:11pm by teacake
#2 Aug 10 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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1,594 posts
A simple enough change is to make Touched by the Light use Defense instead of Stam, the same as AD. Now, Defense doesn't really scale. You go for 540, usually no higher, and certainly no lower. +30% critical heals for 540 defense would work; but the bonus spellpower should scale with level, and then you get a percent of that based on your defense.

Increases your spell power by up to 3/7/10 times your level (based on your Defense), and increases the amount healed by your critical heals by up to 10/20/30% (based on your Defense).


And no one would ever pick up this talent specifically to heal arenas ever again.

Edit: Actually, no.. that wouldn't work. Only an extra 100 spell power at 90. Some other tank stat, then.. Block value? *shrug*

Edited, Aug 10th 2009 4:31pm by Ehcks
#3 Aug 10 2009 at 4:30 PM Rating: Good
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2,183 posts
I just pray that whatever changes made don't ***** up my tanking ability ...
#4 Aug 10 2009 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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1,609 posts
I imagine this announcement is a reaction to the total dominace of warrior/prot healer teams since the resilience changes.

To be totally honest, i was more upset about that prot-healing thing before i discovered tactics on how to break it over my knee in my particular arena team. In a way it is a very clever use of game mechanics, but you have to admit it's a bit gimmicky. An arena healing spec with no instant cast spells? And paladins are notoriously vulnerable to spell lockout (there is no holy tree, getting CSed or kicked locks out all paladin spells). You're only a powerful healer as long as aura mastery and bubble lasts and a team who know how to reset the fight during those cooldowns are going to punish you as soon as they run out.

The real strength i guess is how you can stack stamina and have it turn into extra spellpower, wheras other healers balance survivabilty with effective healing. There's a prot healer in my guild who will likely make gladiator this season with a little over 30k hp in her furious gear.

Edited, Aug 10th 2009 11:25pm by ArtemisEnteri
#5 Aug 11 2009 at 4:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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4,074 posts
ArtemisEnteri wrote:
In a way it is a very clever use of game mechanics, but you have to admit it's a bit gimmicky.


It totally is. It's OP in its way - if I'm immortal and have endless mana I'm happy if I can also heal at all, let alone with 2k spellpower - so the nerf doesn't surprise me. But the level of QQ has surprised me a bit. I thought good people knew how to interrupt. It may be different for your guild mate if she's very good, but IMO if you know what you're doing you can at least neutralize most prot healers into someone who can stand there and live forever, but be able to do little else.
#6 Aug 11 2009 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,609 posts
Interrupting is powerful against the spec, in context. For example, despite the big gear imbalance i can reliably beat that player in a duel with my rogue. That's just because i can pick my time to vanish (during a bubble or aura mastery) and then re-open the fight after diminishing returns on all my stuns and interrupts have reset. Then i can stunlock, interrupt all heals (which because of the spec all have cast times). Kidney shot, gouge, vanish-garrote etc saving the 6 second lockout for when they're at <8k hp.

In a 2v2 match, i would get destroyed every time. You can't blind after a trinket and wait 6 seconds to restealth, because there is a raging ironclad juggernaut who will cut me to tiny ribbons for hitting his healer.

In a duel, i get to pick my times easily. In an arena match when i *need* to lockout that holy light to finish off the warrior the paladin will almost certainly be bubbled, or immune.. And then she's back to full hp, and the warriors back to full hp, and me and my partner are stealthed and invised on 70% from not getting out of bladestorm in time, or taking a few too many ret aura backlashs etc. I think prot healing is so powerful because in the decently long amount of time you have to be immune to any spell interruption, your partner will have murdered someone, or at least forced them to blow cooldowns needed to shut down your healing after that point in the match.

Edited, Aug 11th 2009 10:02pm by ArtemisEnteri
#7 Aug 12 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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218 posts
Honestly, the easiest and quickest way to fix this in a way that wouldn't ***** with prot pally tanking is to make it increase spell damage only instead of spell damage and healing, improved moonkin aura works this way, this could too.
#8 Aug 12 2009 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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1,882 posts
electricwizard wrote:
Honestly, the easiest and quickest way to fix this in a way that wouldn't ***** with prot pally tanking is to make it increase spell damage only instead of spell damage and healing, improved moonkin aura works this way, this could too.


Flametongue and Earthliving weapons work the same way for shamans. Earth living only increases healing power and flametongue only increases offensive spell power. Seems like a very, easy, simply, undamaging fix. But then you kind of punish soloing prot paladins across the board since they can no longer heal themselves as effectively.
#9 Aug 12 2009 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
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2,183 posts
electricwizard wrote:
Honestly, the easiest and quickest way to fix this in a way that wouldn't ***** with prot pally tanking is to make it increase spell damage only instead of spell damage and healing, improved moonkin aura works this way, this could too.


I'm a Tankadin, and I approve this idea ;)
#10 Aug 12 2009 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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3,909 posts
ekaterinodar wrote:
But then you kind of punish soloing prot paladins across the board since they can no longer heal themselves as effectively.


With duel spec available this is not a downside at all. Changing it to spell damage only is a great idea.
#11 Aug 14 2009 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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1,594 posts
PTR wrote:
Touched by the Light: This talent now provides 20/40/60% of the paladin’s strength as spell power instead of 10/20/30% of the paladin’s stamina.


I'm reading people screaming that this is a tanking threat nerf. For me, specifically, I have 1200 strength and 2200 stam. It's a 60 spellpower buff for me.

In other news:
PTR wrote:
Righteous Fury: The bonus threat from Holy spells caused by this talent has been reduced from 90% to 80%.
Judgements of the Just: The reduction in cooldown to Hammer of Justice provided by this talent has been reduced to 5/10 seconds instead of 10/20 seconds.


The HoW nerf will bother me most. It's hard enough to interrupt bosses with a 20 second and a 2 minute CD. Now it's 30 seconds and 2 minutes. Thanks. Gimme a PvE-only 10 second interrupt please!
#12 Aug 14 2009 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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2,183 posts
Ehcks wrote:
The HoJ nerf will bother me most.


FTFY :)

ALso, I posted this in a new topic already. Almost posted it here, but thought it'd get more attention in its own topic :) Off to check that one next!
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