I'm thinking this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZEuzZVfbxbIuhdIcsd <-------Edit: nm mind this its screwed up but I will leave it in place so the thread makes sense see below :), thanks Majivo.
I use Divine Sacrifice often and really don't wan't to give it up. But I needed to free up 5 points for seals of the pure from somewhere. So I am thinking this is the best combo I have come up with so far. I loose one point in righteous veng and cant pick up sactified wrath but I am hoping that with Seal of corruption becoming a main DPS seal, along with possibly Seal of Right for quick dying trash that 15% damage boosts there will more than make up the difference.
I will certainly miss the improved sacred sheild from divine gaurdian though and the extra 5 % DS absorb. :(
WTB 5 more points...
What are you other Rets thinking?
Edited, Aug 4th 2009 10:15am by Shojindo
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Maybe I'm missing something, but why do you have 15 points in prot? You only need 11 to have Divine Sacrifice, and I really can't imagine Stoicism and Guardian's Favor are better than putting those points into ret. Personally I'd be looking at something more like this.
Your absolutely right! See thats why I posted it. Something did not seem right. Not going to gaurdian I dont need to hit 15 points in prot... /facepalm.
I have had the same Ret build for too long and have not had to critically think about it much lately and it was early in the morning.
That totally free's up points to fill Sanc wrath and right Veng. Cool. Now what to do with that extra point though, Not sure I want to bury it in int for holy.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZE0zZVfbxbIuhdIfsu
Using that as a base I guess now there is an extra point you could put anywhere you want. Thanks for catching that Maj.
Edited, Aug 4th 2009 10:05am by Shojindo
I have had the same Ret build for too long and have not had to critically think about it much lately and it was early in the morning.
That totally free's up points to fill Sanc wrath and right Veng. Cool. Now what to do with that extra point though, Not sure I want to bury it in int for holy.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZE0zZVfbxbIuhdIfsu
Using that as a base I guess now there is an extra point you could put anywhere you want. Thanks for catching that Maj.
Edited, Aug 4th 2009 10:05am by Shojindo
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZE0zZVfdxbIuhdIfsu
I just switched around a few points. I don't really need the Int, but I figured the one point in Vindi would make doing dailies a miniscule bit easier.
I just switched around a few points. I don't really need the Int, but I figured the one point in Vindi would make doing dailies a miniscule bit easier.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZEZVfrxbIuhdIfsu:G0o0cm
Here's mine. Not sure about glyph of consecration and how it fits in to the new priority. That could potentially be replaced by the seal of righteousness one. My guild don't do hard modes or anything, so i didn't get much use out of divine sac anyhow.
edit: I'm pretty sure the new vindication will be equivilent to the 5 point talented demo shout. Bosses actually get really hurt by reducing their rather small AP pools.
Edited, Aug 4th 2009 2:03pm by ArtemisEnteri
Here's mine. Not sure about glyph of consecration and how it fits in to the new priority. That could potentially be replaced by the seal of righteousness one. My guild don't do hard modes or anything, so i didn't get much use out of divine sac anyhow.
edit: I'm pretty sure the new vindication will be equivilent to the 5 point talented demo shout. Bosses actually get really hurt by reducing their rather small AP pools.
Edited, Aug 4th 2009 2:03pm by ArtemisEnteri
I notice nobody is using a point on seal of command. How does it compare to seal of righteousness? Is it worth 1 point for trash? People don't seem to agree on what to do with those last few points anyways.
For instance, getting the glyph of seal of command so if you start running low on mana (people were complaining about running out of mana much quicker) you can switch to seal of command for some judgments before going back to vengeance.
Edited, Aug 4th 2009 6:27pm by digitalcraft
For instance, getting the glyph of seal of command so if you start running low on mana (people were complaining about running out of mana much quicker) you can switch to seal of command for some judgments before going back to vengeance.
Edited, Aug 4th 2009 6:27pm by digitalcraft
I'd like to see some actual numbers now that the patch is live regarding SoC and SoR. It seems most people will be taking 5/5 Seals of the Pure to boost SoV damage, which in turn boosts SoR damage. What I read during the PTR was that SoR and SoC were fairly comparable without that talent, and with it that SoR would win out no problem.
If Righteousness is so much better, particularly with Seals of the Pure, there wouldn't be a reason to take Command. Yes, you could use it for Glyphed mana regen, but that means dropping a Glyph like Judgement, Exorcism, or the like: replacing an often used Glyph for a Situational one.
digitalcraft said:
I know I was not really having mana issues at all before this patch, so running out much quicker doesn't mean a whole lot to me, lol. Does this just mean that people aren't staying at 80+% mana all the time or actually running the risk of being oom before a raid fight is over? If people are still at the point they're not risking going oom before a fight is over, I really can't see any reason at all for Command and its Glyph, let alone Command without it.
EDIT: I'm thinking this is going to be the build I will take, but I'm still debating over the last 7 points. I do PvP occasionally so some more points in Ret would help, but I also have started taking a liking to Prot PvP. If I just PvP as Prot, these PvP talents in Ret would be wasted, so I go back to maybe getting Divinity/D.Sac, leaving 1 point for ... something o.o Not looking too much at Vindcation because we have sooo many Warriors in my guild, there's always at least 1 around for Demo Shout.
Edited, Aug 4th 2009 10:22pm by Maulgak
If Righteousness is so much better, particularly with Seals of the Pure, there wouldn't be a reason to take Command. Yes, you could use it for Glyphed mana regen, but that means dropping a Glyph like Judgement, Exorcism, or the like: replacing an often used Glyph for a Situational one.
digitalcraft said:
Quote:
(people were complaining about running out of mana much quicker)
I know I was not really having mana issues at all before this patch, so running out much quicker doesn't mean a whole lot to me, lol. Does this just mean that people aren't staying at 80+% mana all the time or actually running the risk of being oom before a raid fight is over? If people are still at the point they're not risking going oom before a fight is over, I really can't see any reason at all for Command and its Glyph, let alone Command without it.
EDIT: I'm thinking this is going to be the build I will take, but I'm still debating over the last 7 points. I do PvP occasionally so some more points in Ret would help, but I also have started taking a liking to Prot PvP. If I just PvP as Prot, these PvP talents in Ret would be wasted, so I go back to maybe getting Divinity/D.Sac, leaving 1 point for ... something o.o Not looking too much at Vindcation because we have sooo many Warriors in my guild, there's always at least 1 around for Demo Shout.
Edited, Aug 4th 2009 10:22pm by Maulgak
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from the elitist jerks 3.2 post
complete post is worth reading at http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t68951-retribution_3_2_a/
it answered at lot of my questions
Edited, Aug 5th 2009 10:48am by Aesonus
Quote:
Q: What seal for PvE? And for PvP?
A: With blood removed, Seal of Vengeance(Corruption) is now our sustained pve dps seal. For mobs that die in under 12 seconds (trash), you may want to use SoR or SoC due to the DoT ramp-up time of SoV. SoC is a pvp seal primarily and a poor choice at that; it's better to use SoV in pvp if you can stay on top of a target.
Seal of Righteousness
We haven't used this seal since we were leveling up, and it sickens me to say that it is now an option to use. This seal cannot crit, but also cannot miss or be dodged/parried (unless your white swing or special misses). While this seal doesn't benefit from 2H spec or weapon damage increases, it does benefit from SotP, which is in all our primary pve talent builds. With 5/5 SotP, SoR averages about 100 dps higher than SoC until you are in Ilvl 250+ gear. Judging SoR triggers an SoR proc.
Seal of Command
This is a weak option for a pvp seal. SoC has been retooled again; it is no longer ppm based, rather it triggers on every attack (like blood used to) and has no ICD. Judging is no longer a guaranteed crit vs stunned targets. SoC procs are still capable of criticals and follow all the standard melee attack rules. SoC pulls ahead of SoR only when fighting 3+ mobs that only live for 12s each. Judging SoC also triggers an SoC proc.
A: With blood removed, Seal of Vengeance(Corruption) is now our sustained pve dps seal. For mobs that die in under 12 seconds (trash), you may want to use SoR or SoC due to the DoT ramp-up time of SoV. SoC is a pvp seal primarily and a poor choice at that; it's better to use SoV in pvp if you can stay on top of a target.
Seal of Righteousness
We haven't used this seal since we were leveling up, and it sickens me to say that it is now an option to use. This seal cannot crit, but also cannot miss or be dodged/parried (unless your white swing or special misses). While this seal doesn't benefit from 2H spec or weapon damage increases, it does benefit from SotP, which is in all our primary pve talent builds. With 5/5 SotP, SoR averages about 100 dps higher than SoC until you are in Ilvl 250+ gear. Judging SoR triggers an SoR proc.
Seal of Command
This is a weak option for a pvp seal. SoC has been retooled again; it is no longer ppm based, rather it triggers on every attack (like blood used to) and has no ICD. Judging is no longer a guaranteed crit vs stunned targets. SoC procs are still capable of criticals and follow all the standard melee attack rules. SoC pulls ahead of SoR only when fighting 3+ mobs that only live for 12s each. Judging SoC also triggers an SoC proc.
complete post is worth reading at http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t68951-retribution_3_2_a/
it answered at lot of my questions
Edited, Aug 5th 2009 10:48am by Aesonus
Quote:
I'm thinking this is going to be the build I will take
I guess those who have mana issues could go down in the Holy tree and pick up Divine Intellect and then Improved Lay on Hands, but it would be very situational, more like an emergency build for 5-man and maybe 10-man that's about to go wrong. Or am I totally out of line?
Clicky
On the other hand, you would miss Divine Sacrifice which is req. for hard modes? Havn't done any so, um... yeah. :]
Edited, Aug 5th 2009 11:52am by vipraxay
T9 is item level 255 or something ridiculous, in a few months when people are in BiS gear again you might see a resurgence of seal of command. Remember that it scales much much better with weapon damage and stats.
Our minuscule base mana, and thus the utter worthlessness of taking divine intellect, have not changed.
@artemis: yep, i've seen ( think on the EJ page) that when your average IL is 250 or greater, you'll be at about the point where command is better than righteousness. This means, coliseum hard mode gear/heroic T9 of triumph, or the not yet implemented IC citadel gear. Of course, for the latter, we can't really say that command will be better in 3.3, cause we're sure to have ret mechanics completely redesigned again :)
Edited, Aug 5th 2009 11:54am by Tsarducci
@artemis: yep, i've seen ( think on the EJ page) that when your average IL is 250 or greater, you'll be at about the point where command is better than righteousness. This means, coliseum hard mode gear/heroic T9 of triumph, or the not yet implemented IC citadel gear. Of course, for the latter, we can't really say that command will be better in 3.3, cause we're sure to have ret mechanics completely redesigned again :)
Edited, Aug 5th 2009 11:54am by Tsarducci
ArtemisEnteri wrote:
T9 is item level 255 or something ridiculous, in a few months when people are in BiS gear again you might see a resurgence of seal of command. Remember that it scales much much better with weapon damage and stats.
Well, Command scales better with weapon damage.
But, assuming at least one point is Sheath of Light, Righteousness scales better with stats.
Tsarducci wrote:
Our minuscule base mana, and thus the utter worthlessness of taking divine intellect, have not changed.
@artemis: yep, i've seen ( think on the EJ page) that when your average IL is 250 or greater, you'll be at about the point where command is better than righteousness. This means, coliseum hard mode gear/heroic T9 of triumph, or the not yet implemented IC citadel gear. Of course, for the latter, we can't really say that command will be better in 3.3, cause we're sure to have ret mechanics completely redesigned again :)
Edited, Aug 5th 2009 11:54am by Tsarducci
@artemis: yep, i've seen ( think on the EJ page) that when your average IL is 250 or greater, you'll be at about the point where command is better than righteousness. This means, coliseum hard mode gear/heroic T9 of triumph, or the not yet implemented IC citadel gear. Of course, for the latter, we can't really say that command will be better in 3.3, cause we're sure to have ret mechanics completely redesigned again :)
Edited, Aug 5th 2009 11:54am by Tsarducci
And what would you use to get to Imp LoH? Or for that matter, at all? No other talents are worth anything.
In my sig is my topic I made and updated to 3.2 with new talent builds. I went with the 12/5/54 and don't see any problems.
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