The DKAT - Death Knight Answers ThreadFollow

Current status: Just got some work that I wasn't expecting so more updates will have to be "coming soon." With any luck sometime before raid tomorrow. Cheers.

Introduction

If you have a basic question about playing the Death Knight, this is the place to find an answer.

This thread is intended to help players with the basics of playing a Death Knight with additional links to more advanced information. I'll do my best to cover builds, gearing, mechanics and basic tactics and encourage any and all suggestions from the forum community.

I will do my best to keep the information up to date and current with the game as it plays on the live servers. I will not put any speculative or PTR info here so please don't ask.

I'd like to thank the Alla DK community for all of the excellent posts from which I've cleverly stolen from and tried to pull off as my own work, and specifically Theophany for his excellent and numerous informational threads (including his original DPS DK FAQ).


Some ground rules:

Please read the main body of the thread before posting. I'd guess that 90% of new DK players' questions will be answered by simply reading what's already here.

Please post if you really, really can't find the answer you need. Just be sure it's not already here please.

Please post if something is not clear or inaccurate in the main body of the thread. I suck at editing, 'nuff said.

The term "viable" (regardless of it's abuse elsewhere) will be treated in this thread to mean "builds that are not out-performed on a regular, identifiable basis by other builds in current end-game content. That means that, yes, that experimental tri-spec works great for Patchwerk when you have 2 druids in your group and the rogue is giving you Tricks. But because it under performs on every other fight it is non-viable. Nor is viable a variable. A build cannot become "more" or "less" viable. It either is or is not.

Please keep posts clear, relevant, to the point, and polite. Argumentative, rude, off-topic posts will be down-rated. Also try to use proper English in the posts in an effort to make communication of ideas clear and not muddy up the thread with semantic or grammatical "discussion." If English is your second (or third!) language, please say so in the post so that we don't get 5 replies about how you used "their" instead of "they're" (I just want to reduce clutter in the thread. I'm NOT trying to single anyone out for trying to learn the dumbest language in the world, English).

Please do not clutter the thread with "please review/rate my toon, here's my armory" posts. This thread should give you all the information you need to review your freshly 80 toon. The experienced posters here are not just hanging around waiting to do your work for you.

Please do not waste our time with "but I used XYZ spec and pwnd the test dummy" posts. The test dummies ARE NOT reliable reflections of actual raid output and nobody in PvP will stand still like the dummy does. Test dummies can be useful for testing mechanics but require quite a bit of mathematical assistance to show anything close to raid damage. Basically you're better off using a spreadsheet or simulator if you're trying to figure out gearing to raid DPS variations, etc.

Please be prepared to show proof of claims. If you're going to suggest something uncommon, be ready to show us why it's better in concrete and quatifiable terms. WWS reports are far, far better than Recount screen shots if you want to convince us that gemming for spell penetration is better than Strength (for example). Peer-review is a cornerstone of educated debate for a reason.

Please do not take this thread as the gospel. It should be full of very good info but that doesn't mean that it will always be perfect. It's edited and kept by a moron.


TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.1 Introduction/Thanks

1.2 TOC

1.3 Starting a Death Knight

1.4 Coming soon


2.0 ABILITIES

2.1 Spell list

2.2 Builds & Glyphs


3.0 GEARING

3.1 Stat weights and gearing basics

3.2 Starter Gear

3.3 Consumables


4.0 Playing better

4.1 Tips and Tactics (coming soon)

4.2 Macros

4.3 Master Links List



Edited, Jul 14th 2009 9:03am by TherionSaysWhat

Builds and Glyphs

Below are some currently accepted optimized talent builds (aka Cookie Cutter Specs). Yes, there are other variations and experimental builds out there but this isn't the place for speculation and testing. We're looking for the tried and true here. Please note: In every build there are probably at least a couple of points that can be moved around a bit and I try to point out a few of these examples in the text. I'm sure I'm not mentioning them all, so keep that in mind. The trick to talent point selection is asking yourself "does this point add more value to DPSing (or tanking) than another point?". I suggest that any alternative point selection you want to try passes that test.


PvE DPS


Blood 51/0/20 - The Classic - IT/PS/HS/HS/DS/DC...

Glyphs of Death Strike, Dark Death and Dancing Rune Weapon or Disease are common, but be aware that Disease is debatable.

Strong 1-2 target damage and self-healing are key here. Heart Strike, Death Strike and Death Coil are your primary abilities on bosses with Blood Boil (and optionally Corpse Explosion) for AoE. Basically get diseases up, Pestilence (for AoE) or Heart Strike, look to Death Strike when you're over 50 runic power and spam Death Coil while you're waiting for runes. Pretty simple.

The one point in Epidemic (as opposed to 2) should be enough extra disease time to get you through an entire cycle, in Blood Presence. If you're finding that your diseases are dropping off then you need to work on timing your rune use abilities better.

Vampiric Blood is sometimes swapped for Mark of Blood or Blood worms for Improved Blood Presence and Mark of Blood. Rune Tap occasionally shows up but I find it better to use those points for the above configurations.


Frost 20/51/0 - Oh, snap! - HB/FS/OB/FS/BS/BS/FS....

Glyphs of Howling Blast, Obliterate and Frost Strike (swap Oblit for Icy Touch for the IT spam to FS style)

AoE doesn't get spikier than this. The Glyph of Howling Blast followed by Blood Boil makes this build just stupid awesome for AoE packs while retaining very good single-target DPS from Frost Strike. The key to Frost is runic power to fuel Frost Strike spam (best with the Sigil). Slip in Frost Strike between each rune pair use for efficiency. On single targets you can go with IT/PS instead of HB. Be sure you're popping Unbreakable Armor (with Blood Tap) as often as possible.

Debatable points would be Lichborne for Deathchill and Death Rune Mastery (removing IT spam from a possibility) for Virulence if you're really hurting for Spell Hit.



Unholy 0/10/61 - Cooldown-o-rific - IT/PS/BS/BS/SS-spam

Glyph of Scourge Strike, of the Ghoul, Dark Death

Very strong consistent AoE (as opposed to Frosts' spike damage) with strong single-target damage, Unholy is also notoriously flexible with less than perfect gear. Generally speaking the only complaint I've heard repeatedly about deep Unholy builds is the number of timers and cooldowns you need to watch but it's not all that bad once you get used to it.

There are a number of points that are personal preference (Imp. Unholy Pres. for instance) but with so many points in one tree it's not too bad to move some around.


Unholy 0/17/54 - Feast on the RP! - Priority system, no rotation.

Glyph of Dark Death, Icy Touch, of the Ghoul

While less popular due to slightly under-performing WWS parses (on average), DW-Unholy can be a hell of a lot of fun to play. It's an incredibly active and somewhat demanding spec to optimize and often requires different gearing than the 2-hander specs (for more Hit Rating to get closer to the Spell Hit Cap) but can offer reasonable DPS output for those willing to learn its secrets. I don't suggest fresh 80s or newer raiders try this spec until they have some solid experience with how the DK plays in raid. But for those of you with a free secondary spec and a couple of decent 1-handers, it's something you may want to check out.



TANKING


Blood 54/5/12 for more self-healing and Blood 54/5/12 for more threat - Just a flesh wound - IT/PS/HS/HS/DC

Glyphs of Death Strike, Dark Death and Death and Decay

Simple is as simple does, learn to love Heart Strike and self-healing. Basically this is played almost exactly the same as the standard deep Blood build above except you're tanking! Yay! I really love this build for tanking, especially for heroics. But I have seen this played through the t8 content as well and can be considered the magic key to one particular tactic for Vezax-10 hard mode (self-healing + cleave = win). It's also a fairly easy build to play making it great for DKs just starting to tank.

Notice that I use Rune Tap here but this are swappable (usually for Abombs MIght, MoB, and or VB).


Frost 15/51/5 - WTB RP PST - HB/Oblit/FS... um... priority!

Glyphs of Howling Blast, Frost Strike and Obliterate (or Unbreakable Armor)

A very runic power heavy tanking spec, you'll be Frost Striking and Rune Striking your *** off here. More or less plays like it's DPS brother: Keep HB around to refresh Frost Fever and learn to love Obliterate to fuel your runic power bar.

You need to consider if the Glyph of Unbreakable Armor (for damage reduction) is more important for you than Obliterate (for threat).


Unholy Tanking

To be added.



PvP

A note: I had started working on this section and putting together my research reminded me just how mercurial arena is. I don't feel qualified (having not been in arena seriously since s3) to spout out builds here. Essentially if you are just starting out with PvP, read section 4.1.2, "Playing Better - PvP starter tips", and follow the PvP related links in that section.

I may update this section after further research. But at the time of this writing I don't want to hold up the entire works for just this. I'll need to do a lot more research to verify any static and or standard PvP builds.

Edited, Jul 14th 2009 8:42am by TherionSaysWhat

Edited, Jul 15th 2009 3:30pm by TherionSaysWhat

DK macros (stolen from my DK Macro-a-thon tread of yore)

Basic macros that make your gaming life easier.


Start or "Minion team, go!"

#showtooltip Icy Touch 
/startattack 
/petattack 
/cast Icy Touch

Starts your attack, starts pet attacking, casts a spell. Can't get more simpler than that! Replace Icy Touch with whatever spell you start your rotation with and never have to hit control-1 again!


Rune Strike or "Where all der rune power at?"

/cast <ability>  
/cast Rune Strike

This prompts RS after any ability you use such as Death Strike, Obliterate, Scourge Strike... get the picture? Really works great for tanks, not so much for deeps. RS doesn't use the global cooldown and will only activate when it's ready. So it's safe to spam as often as you want and what finer way than automatically? Who needs another button to watch anyhow? For extra fun, macro it in with all of your standard rotation key binds... you'll never see rune power again!


Cheap Blood Heal or "what do you mean 'health pot'?"

/cast Vampiric Blood 
/cast Blood Tap

Free VB (or Rune Tap) basically. I've seen a combination of this with Rune Tap, Lichborne and a self-cast Death Coil. But haven't used that variation myself. Honestly, I prefer Healthstonesâ„¢ brand. =P


The Turbo Macro aka "OMG WHY IS ANIMALS ON YER FACE???"

/use [nocombat] Indestructible Potion 
/use [combat] Insane Strength Potion 
/cast Horn of Winter 
/cast Blood Tap 
/cast Unbreakable Armor

Ok, this is one of my deep, dark secrets. I shouldn't even be telling you folks this but being drunk makes my charitable. Pop this macro just before entering combat to avoid the annoying "combat cooldown" on potions, then pop it again for Bloodlust/Heroism and viola: A fancy Turbo button. Be a bit careful when you pop it due to the rune use. I also almost always follow up the Bloodlust/Heroism use with Empower Rune Weapon.

Swap out other potions as you see fit. I use Indestructibles in conjunction with Bladed Armor. Also note that you can, and should, add "/use 13" and "/use 14" for any on-use trinkets you want to pop in there as well. You crazy Unholy DKs should add Ghoul Frenzy in there too if you grabbed it.


Insta-tank or "What do you mean grab that add? ... OMG MY PRETTY FACE!!!"

/cast Unbreakable Armor 
/cast Icebound Fortitude 
/cast Frost Presence 
/equip Inevitable Defeat 
/cast Dark Command

Well, there are times you need to step in when your tank is, um, "on vacation." Pop this badboy and start praying like a mantis buddy 'cause that big hunk of angry is coming right for ya! Insert your preferred tanking weapon (and be sure it's in your bags!).


Taunt-o-matic or "Yer mine now sucka."

/cast [nomod,exists,harm,target=mouseover] [nomod,exists,harm] Dark Command 
/cast [mod:shift,exists,harm,target=mouseover] [mod:shift,exists,harm] Death Grip

Ok, this is a bit tricky if you're new to some of these functions. But bear with it and you'll fall in love with this macros' utility. Idea is that if you're hovering your cursor over a baddie while targeting his friend, you can taunt or grip him. Move your cursor off unfriendly targets and you'll taunt or grip your current target. Seems tricky until you try it.

Or there's the super simple version:

/castsequence reset=35 Death Grip, Dark Command

Will Grip your target or if Grip is on cooldown it'll Command. Basic as cable.


Interupts or "Shhhhh..... baby's sleepin'."

/cast [exists,target=focus,harm] [exists,target=mouseover,harm] Strangulate, Mind Freeze

Standard stuff. Don't leave home without it. Will cast Strangle on bad-guy focus, or mouseover, or will MF your current target.


Raising the dead or "Dude, WTF? Seriously? Dude?"

/cast [harm] Raise Dead; [help] Raise Ally

Most basic version I can think of. If you're targeting an enemy you'll Raise a Ghoul like normal. Target a fallen buddy and make him L2gnaw nub! Personally I use "target=mouseover" and a "[nocombat] Army of the Dead" with this also, but you get the idea. Experiment



Edited, Jul 14th 2009 8:58am by TherionSaysWhat

I like it Therion, pretty quick and to the point with the information. I liked the guys /castsequence macro for the blood rotation on EJ (that I linked in the blood rotation thread below yours)

#showtooltip
/targetnearestenemy
/castsequence reset=target/dead Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Heart Strike, Heart Strike, Death Strike, Death Strike, Heart Strike, Heart Strike, Heart Strike, Heart Strike


He has a bunch others there too that could be helpful

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t61176-blood_simple_consolidated_blood_dk_dps_guide/

There is no expertise and hit cap, is there? You could stack hit and expertise all you wanted. It's not like it'll suddenly reach a loft and not go any further. Sure, the additional hit/expertise would have no effect on the boss, but that's the same with defense, except there's a minor benefit from stacking more defense. However, if you stack more defense than you need, you would essentially be gimping yourself in terms of avoidance, right? So one might say that just as additional hit/expertise is wasted, so is additional defense, thus creating a cap, or plateau in the curve, if you want.

Or am I wrong here? If I am, please excuse my faulty logic. If I'm right, well, you wrote 'hit cap' in your OP, Therion, so that makes you just as bad as the 'def cap' guys.

Also, 'defense cap' has been used since Vanilla. It became part of World of Warcraft terminology long before people started moaning about it (I think those people arrived with the 3 o'clock min/max elitist train somewhere during The Burning Crusade), so even if it is incorrect from a mathmatical/grammatic point of view, it is a term well-known in the game. Just like the infamous Destro Warlocks. Destruction is not spelled 'destroction', so I have no idea why the abbreviation looks like that. WTF is an acronym and as such should be capitalized, yet, a lot of people use "no caps" when they write it. It's so bad now that some guy apologized about using caps in LFG channel when he wrote 'BTW'.

Not to mention, if you have to tell people how incorrect it is to call it 'defense cap' every time the topic is brought up, wouldn't it be just easier to not bother with it? I doubt the collective 11 million subscribers of which, what, 20% plays tanks, is going to just up and leave a well-known and easy-to-write term for the optimal defense rating to attain crit immunity (is that term allowed?) from level 83 mobs. Having to write five paragraphs every time you want to say 'def cap' would probably suck.

::EDIT::

See, now you had me going on and on about something and I lost track of my original intention: Thanks for this easy-to-read guide. I was looking for some quick facts on Blood tanking and I got them.

Edited, Jul 14th 2009 11:15pm by Mazra

That and you can say 'crit-immune cap' or something like that if it really bothers you. But as Mozard stated going past the hit cap still has some benefits for deathknights as you get closer to the spellhit cap (albeit that is a rather small % of your overall dps and therefore is a lesser wanted/needed/stacked stat past what you gear for). Expertise as I understand past 25/26 has some value but is far diminished past that point.

I don't know much about tanking but I do understand that getting defense past 540 (or whatever the ******* the number is at your current level be it 60/70/80/90) to be crit-immune is still worthwhile but not worth gemming for past dodge/parry/avoidance/etc.

Not everyone knows what it means because it's incorrect and confusing. Cases like simple wrong word usage (affect/effect, etc) are annoying enough, but the thing here is that 'def cap' is not something that is obvious to everyone. As a counter to your question I can ask; if you're writing a guide on how to play a class for newer players, why purposefully use a wrong and confusing word? It's annoying enough that people insist on saying stuff wrong (in the same way that it's 'annoying' that people wash their hands after going to the restroom), but especially in an environment where precise wording matters you shouldn't forego clarity for the sake of confirmism.

Erm...why not just call it crit-immune and remove 'defense cap' from our vocabulary altogether?

Incidently, great thread Therion.

Semantics are great.....but in all fairness, the majority of people who come here to read about being better DPS or Tanks will understand what the misnamed terms mean (def cap, hit cap, spell hit cap, DR (this really should be a four letter word), etc...)

Jeebus you can go onto google and type in "Hit Cap" with no reference to WoW and the first link is from wowwiki describing what it means, and google defense cap with no reference to WoW and the first link is "Defense Cap Defined".... so enough with the semantics. Let the tanks and DPS who don't care enough about doing their jobs that they don't look up any information or ask any relevant questions fail and then fall into obscurity because they won't be used for anything in a serious raiding guild....or progress far enough in the end-game to be of any notable mention.

Dilbert wrote:



Along with this statement, I'm curious why Hysteria is taken over MoB. You state it is about self healing, but that build skips most of the healing talents. I won't argue about it, I'm sure people have seen my schpiel on blood tanking.

But Dilbert has a point. I've never seen VB skipped. I think is one of the blood tanking talents that people actually agree on how useful it is.

Very nice FAQ. I hope people actually read this before posting (they won't).

Thanks Anobix, I'll add that link to the links list when I compile that section. Personally, I don't use any castsequence macros and perhaps I'm biased.

The blood tanking build has a few points (hell, ALL of the builds have a "few points") that are often debated (Hysteria, MoB, Rune Tap, Vampiric Blood). Hysteria is a rDPS bonus for your top deepser. They are all useful and can be swapped to taste. DRW I added because it's in my Blood Tanking build for threat. I've added my more healing variation to the post with annotation. Hope that will clear up the build choices.


Ok. The "cap" discussion.... I had hoped that by pointing out the difference of melee hit cap and spell hit cap (with rating conversion rates), we would avoid exactly the conversation that going on. Lets clear some things up:

The melee hit cap IS a ceiling. You cannot reduce Miss anymore than to zero for melee attacks by stacking more hit past this point. It's wasted itemization past 8% (not including any buffs, etc) FOR MELEE HITS. The melee hit cap is the same as the specials, both are calculated and treated the same. The spell hit cap is differently dealt with but is not considered as much as a priority for any of the basic builds I've listed in this post.

I have included an additional note regarding the DW hit cap to help clarify the section.

And I'll say it again, and this is true with all the false-yet-common expressions I come across in real life: I don't care if a million people use an inaccurate phrase. It's still inaccurate. Defense, unlike Hit Rating, still adds benefits past 540 (avoidance) and therefore is not a "cap." More hit rating past 8% does nothing for melee hit, and so it is in fact a "cap."

Hope that clarifies things.

Thanks everyone for the rate-ups and suggestions!!! I should be able to do a bunch of work on the post in the next couple of days. Just got crazy busy around here!

Cheers.

In regards to the "Def cap" conversation, Therion has to put what he put. It's the facts. And if Therion refuses to refer to it as such, it is his choice. Him telling it like it is will help newer people not get confused and ease into the accepted language with proper knowledge.


Marza also has a great point to where we have to ask "Does it really matter?" We all know what it means. A thread isn't going to change anything.

I love the thread, gives newer death knights a great look at what to do at 80. I just have one question. Which build gives the highest single target DPS that you've tried? I've been frost for a while, but Ive heard whisperings that blood can pump out more.