I almost exclusively tank.
Tonight if Mimi goes well and we will try some IC after I should be able to raid DPS for the first time in months. We gonna make the pally tank Steelbreaker, since he can cleanse his own damn self and have the DK tank in the back. So I may get to unleash the mew mew.
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Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Mazra wrote:
OMGEverythingIsTaken wrote:
If you enrage (to 10 rage) -> charge -> FFF (mid charge) -> swipe, you can usually start with enough rage to keep mashing swipe and maul on an aoe pull. Also atleast marking the initial mob to dps might save some headaches. And like Ehcks said, when you have enough threat on a mob to kill it before you lose threat, stop using specials and build rage for your next pull.
IDk how you tank, but i usually have no more than a couple seconds downtime between pulls unless i notice the healer low on mana with no other druid to innervate, the moment a mob hits around 50% health as long as i have enough threat on him i just auto attack to build rage then when im full i charge to the next pull, weather the last mob is dead or not.
And always keep in mind, threat is a dps's fault as well, they have spells to remove threat for a reason, most people are just either too stupid or too lazy to utilize them so they blame the tank, WotLK has coddled dps into the idea that threat is always the tanks fault, unlike TBC when AoE'ing on a big pull was a big nono, and was entirely blamed on the dps'er doing it when they pulled threat and died.
IDk how you tank, but i usually have no more than a couple seconds downtime between pulls unless i notice the healer low on mana with no other druid to innervate, the moment a mob hits around 50% health as long as i have enough threat on him i just auto attack to build rage then when im full i charge to the next pull, weather the last mob is dead or not.
And always keep in mind, threat is a dps's fault as well, they have spells to remove threat for a reason, most people are just either too stupid or too lazy to utilize them so they blame the tank, WotLK has coddled dps into the idea that threat is always the tanks fault, unlike TBC when AoE'ing on a big pull was a big nono, and was entirely blamed on the dps'er doing it when they pulled threat and died.
I've tanked several instances with my Druid (as early as yesterday) and I had almost full rage the entire time. Group pull? Gather, Swipe, Demoralizing Roar, Swipe and I'm full. Swipe crits give me extra rage through Primal Fury and when you have a crit chance of 35%, you're bound to get a couple on a massive pull. Coupled with Lacerate crits (awesomesauce), Feral Faerie Fire crits and Maul crits (glyph rocks, doesn't it?), I have more rage than I can dump. Than I need to dump. Sure, spamming Swipe on single pulls is a great way to waste a load of rage, but why? When I'm 30,000 threat ahead of the next guy, why would I need to blow all my rage on getting even further ahead? Instead I save it for those unexpected situations where you might need to pop Frenzied Regeneration or pull some adds.
As for responsibilities, they've changed a lot since Vanilla. Back then, before Omen and Recount, if a DPS died, it was the DPS' own fault. If the tank died, it was the healer's fault and if the healer died, it was the tank's fault. Then came TBC and if the DPS died, it was because the DPS didn't have Omen, but did have Recount (e-peen flexing ensued). If the tank died, the tank wasn't geared for the instance and if the healer died.. well, nothing changed there. I've run a couple of instances throughout Northrend, from Nexus to Violet Hold to Gundrak and from what I've gathered, it now seems that if the DPS dies, the healer was a) a noob or b) not geared for the instance. If the tank died, the tank wasn't geared for the instance and the healer was a) a noob or b) not geared for the instance. If the healer died, the healer should've used Shadowmeld, Fade or Bubble. Learn to Omen.
Meh. Healers are wanted, but no longer valued. I'm wondering if the tendency with change yet again.
Spamming swipe on a single pull just seems idiotic unless your undergeared compared to the dps your with, i did 10 naxx last week with dps'ers with full ulduar gear and i had heroic gear with a raid piece or two, fun stuff but it went pretty well, other then the other druid tank in full ulduar gear calling me a scrub because i was holding all aoe threat while he taunted off me every time it was off cd because for some reason he was single target attacking 5 pulls O.o
and i <3 my healers, without them i wouldnt be able to run around smacking things :D
Quote:
Spamming swipe on a single pull just seems idiotic unless your undergeared compared to the dps your with
You do know that after you break around 6k AP in bear form Swipe is higher threat than Lacerate and you only use Lacerate to refresh the stack right while maintaining a rotation focused on keeping Mangle and FFF on CD with ample use of Maul right?
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Horsemouth wrote:
Quote:
Spamming swipe on a single pull just seems idiotic unless your undergeared compared to the dps your with
You do know that after you break around 6k AP in bear form Swipe is higher threat than Lacerate and you only use Lacerate to refresh the stack right while maintaining a rotation focused on keeping Mangle and FFF on CD with ample use of Maul right?
in which case your not just spamming swipe
my point was starving yourself of rage when you dont have the gear to keep it at 100 on a single mob leaves no room for error
Edited, Jul 13th 2009 5:23pm by OMGEverythingIsTaken
Maybe I'm just drunk, maybe I'm just confused but OMG... I have no idea what you are talking about.
Splain.
Splain.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
6,000 AP in Bear form with tank gear?
My Death Knight in mostly PvP gear has barely 3,000 AP. Granted, I noticed my Druid in mostly Outland PvP gear has 3,000 already, but seriously? 6,000 attack power is possible?
Ouch, those Mauls must hit like a truck.
My Death Knight in mostly PvP gear has barely 3,000 AP. Granted, I noticed my Druid in mostly Outland PvP gear has 3,000 already, but seriously? 6,000 attack power is possible?
Ouch, those Mauls must hit like a truck.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Last time I checked I was a little under and that was in a mix of naxx10/25, crafted and heroic gear.
I have gotten a few Uld pieces so I wold imagine I am pushing 6k maybe more depending on buffs.
Snap aggro baby. None of that wait a few GCDs bullsh*t. My DPS is used to me and a DK tanking stuff, they just unload when they see mobs now and it is rarely an issue.
edit: quoting failure
Edited, Jul 14th 2009 6:37pm by Horsemouth
I have gotten a few Uld pieces so I wold imagine I am pushing 6k maybe more depending on buffs.
Quote:
Ouch, those Mauls must hit like a truck.
Snap aggro baby. None of that wait a few GCDs bullsh*t. My DPS is used to me and a DK tanking stuff, they just unload when they see mobs now and it is rarely an issue.
edit: quoting failure
Edited, Jul 14th 2009 6:37pm by Horsemouth
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
10-man buffs, I can break 6k AP. Granted, that's the right 10-man buffs. Kings, Battle Shout, Horn of Winter. Sitting around 6100-6200. My tanking gear is mostly Nax 10/25.
And Maz, we get an extra 2k AP from our weapon over your DK. That, and we don't need defense at all, so we load up on other stats.
And Maz, we get an extra 2k AP from our weapon over your DK. That, and we don't need defense at all, so we load up on other stats.
kitty, raid buffed tonight....9006 attack power, 56.38% crit, 203 hit rating, 196 armor penetration, 84 expertise, .89 attack speed...oh it was fun. :P
AstarintheDruid wrote:
10-man buffs, I can break 6k AP. Granted, that's the right 10-man buffs. Kings, Battle Shout, Horn of Winter. Sitting around 6100-6200. My tanking gear is mostly Nax 10/25.
And Maz, we get an extra 2k AP from our weapon over your DK. That, and we don't need defense at all, so we load up on other stats.
And Maz, we get an extra 2k AP from our weapon over your DK. That, and we don't need defense at all, so we load up on other stats.
Wait, hold the bus, whassat? We don't defense? When did that happen? Oh, god, I'm out of the loop... I haven't been out of the loop since, I don't know, early Vanilla?
Is it because we get crit immune from SotF? That's only melee hits, though, isn't it?
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Boss spells don't crit, so all we need is SotF. You might see a bearwith Defense Rating if it's on an otherwise good tanking ring/cloak/neck/trinket, but that's it.
Boss spells don't crit?
When did that happen? Has it always been like that? I thought I saw a mention about some AOE ability in old Naxx capable of critting. It's a couple of years old, so perhaps my memory is wrong.
Meh, okay, so SotF and then just dodge and.. dodge? Armor, health and I take it attack power and crit for Savage Defense?
When did that happen? Has it always been like that? I thought I saw a mention about some AOE ability in old Naxx capable of critting. It's a couple of years old, so perhaps my memory is wrong.
Meh, okay, so SotF and then just dodge and.. dodge? Armor, health and I take it attack power and crit for Savage Defense?
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Mazra wrote:
Boss spells don't crit?
When did that happen? Has it always been like that? I thought I saw a mention about some AOE ability in old Naxx capable of critting. It's a couple of years old, so perhaps my memory is wrong.
Meh, okay, so SotF and then just dodge and.. dodge? Armor, health and I take it attack power and crit for Savage Defense?
When did that happen? Has it always been like that? I thought I saw a mention about some AOE ability in old Naxx capable of critting. It's a couple of years old, so perhaps my memory is wrong.
Meh, okay, so SotF and then just dodge and.. dodge? Armor, health and I take it attack power and crit for Savage Defense?
Health and armor. Is where it's at right now.
Dodge is nice but gem/chant for enough health first.
Expertise and hit are better threat stats then AP and crit.
I usually pretend SD doesn't exist. It just isn't worth gearing for in any way. Maybe if I had insane levels of health, dodge and had both pushed boss mob parry off the attack table and was hit capped I would look into gearing more AP/crit.
For me personally since I am a 10 man tank once I broke the 40k health mark I started going nuts for Agility. If I was to start doing 25s I would regem until I broke around 50k then go back to Agility. When we start to get into harder hard modes there is a good chance I will sacrifice dodge for more health.
Health is reliable, dodge is not. Surviving 2 attacks is good but if I can push my health to eat 3 that is better. It works in discrete units as well as surviving 2.5 attacks is the same as 2.
Armor is all from iLvl of gear mostly and Agility. So you really can't gear for armor. If you could I totally would, well for fights based on physical damage. The thing is these days the uber-nasty boss attacks are all magical in nature in Uld so armor is not as sexy as health.
Today's end game tank gears for EH first then avoidance and then threat for the most part.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Horsemouth wrote:
Health is reliable, dodge is not. Surviving 2 attacks is good but if I can push my health to eat 3 that is better.
Just have to hope the healer can handle it, because you would still need to be healed for the damage done, otherwise the extra health would only prolong your death, right? Of course, in 10-mans you probably have sufficient healing and mana regen to keep it under control.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Actually, having a high enough health pool to take 3 hits and live instead of 2 gives the healer that much more time to react to needing to drop a big heal on you. That way, it's more an issue of "Can your healer put out enough Healing/second" and not "How twitchy is your healer's mouse button".
Mazra wrote:
If the healer died, the healer should've used Shadowmeld, Fade or Bubble. Learn to Omen.
This makes me cry. I'm talented for less threat on healing spells and frankly if I'm pulling threat off you you're doing something so fundamentally wrong that I'll most likely just walk out of the instance/raid.
If I put a hot on you a second too close to the combat starting then fine, but If I somehow manage to take threat off you with hots wtf am I supposed to do? Stop healing? (Ps. I'm tauren)
Last time it happened I switched to cat and hit cower.
Astarin wrote:
That way, it's more an issue of "Can your healer put out enough Healing/second Is your healer a pally with Holy light bombs every second" and not "How twitchy is your healer's mouse button".
Thanks for the information about armor though, I had been stacking more Agi on my offset since I'd hit 28k and figured that was enough.
Edited, Jul 21st 2009 1:11pm by slightlysober
slightlysober wrote:
Astarin wrote:
That way, it's more an issue of "Can your healer put out enough Healing/second Is your healer a pally with Holy light bombs every second" and not "How twitchy is your healer's mouse button".
My guild tried 10m FL with 2 towers up last night and I may as well have just dps'd. He hits pretty hard, hard enough that having a few hots didn't feel like they made any difference at all.
Thanks for the information about armor though, I had been stacking more Agi on my offset since I'd hit 28k and figured that was enough.
Aren't you supposed to be in the tanks when fighting Flame Leviathan?
slightlysober wrote:
My guild tried 10m FL with 2 towers up last night and I may as well have just dps'd. He hits pretty hard, hard enough that having a few hots didn't feel like they made any difference at all.
As selebrin said, shouldn't you all be in tanks and stuff?
Also what two towers are you doing? Fire and Ice is the easiest 2 combo. Well anything without Life isn't that bad. Fire has the fire walls, Storm has blue pillar things that hunt you, Ice has static beams that hurt and Life has adds that just f^ck sh*t up in general.
Life sucks. We did Ice + Life last week to start getting used to Life and we barely managed to 1 shot it, had like a demo and a bike up when he died.
I think Wednesday we are going to do Life + Ice + Fire and see what happens.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Think you need to flip that around Horse; Thorim's loads the static beams in one time during the fight, Hodir's are the ones that chase you.
Overlord Norellicus wrote:
Think you need to flip that around Horse; Thorim's loads the static beams in one time during the fight, Hodir's are the ones that chase you.
I probably do. I can never keep the two of them straight. I have officers for that sort of stuff. ;)
Luckily as a guild we have no problem with either one.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Hi I'm the idiot that tried to post while very tired and not thinking straight.
Have we met?
It was XT, not FL.
We tried FL too, but that has less paladins running around.
We had fire and storm up, because something one of our officers had read on some random site apparently said it was easier and we didn't know enough to contradict him. I'll let them know that Fire+Ice is easiest.
I should mention that we just did 2 towers on a whim and promptly decided we'd wait a while before trying FL with towers.
But XT just had me feeling powerless, which is sad because I normally feel quite good since I haven't gone OoM since H's.
Good luck with the three towers too Horse.
Have we met?
It was XT, not FL.
We tried FL too, but that has less paladins running around.
We had fire and storm up, because something one of our officers had read on some random site apparently said it was easier and we didn't know enough to contradict him. I'll let them know that Fire+Ice is easiest.
I should mention that we just did 2 towers on a whim and promptly decided we'd wait a while before trying FL with towers.
But XT just had me feeling powerless, which is sad because I normally feel quite good since I haven't gone OoM since H's.
Good luck with the three towers too Horse.
No, Fire and Storm are easiest. Storm is the absolute easiest one as it's just a bunch of non-moving beams that you can easily avoid from start to finish; Fire is next as it creates a moving wall of flame (more like lame MIRITE) that's not hard to drive around; Ice creates beams that follow you and try to drop snowballs on you that iceblock your vehicle if they hit; Life creates more adds in the field which I think can root your vehicles (never done it with Life myself).
Edited, Jul 21st 2009 9:32am by Norellicus
Edited, Jul 21st 2009 9:32am by Norellicus
Overlord Norellicus wrote:
stuff
Ya, Norellicus is correct. I can't remember which one is Ice/Storm for the life of me. The pillars of no move are easy and them plus Fire is the simplest 2 tower set up. Life is the hardest one.
We started with Fire and worked through doing 1 tower with all. After we realized Life sucked we started mixing and matching all the other 2 combos to learn them. Once you start to really get a feel for a tower start learning a new combo.
Then work in the ones you are weaker on.
Then work on adding more towers.
Profit.
Quote:
Hi I'm the idiot that tried to post while very tired and not thinking straight.
You obviously haven't seen some of my epic drunken posts.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
So when doing ice, make sure to let it catch you then move. You can't outrun it and it'll catch you at the worst moments if you try to run. As soon as you let it catch you, it stops and gets ready to drop it's little freeze ball. Once it stops, just move, and bam, no more beam chasing you.
Also, Horse, I think you pissed someone off, they carpet bombed the **** out of your rating. You damn drunk drood.
Also, Horse, I think you pissed someone off, they carpet bombed the **** out of your rating. You damn drunk drood.
Galenmoon wrote:
So when doing ice, make sure to let it catch you then move. You can't outrun it and it'll catch you at the worst moments if you try to run. As soon as you let it catch you, it stops and gets ready to drop it's little freeze ball. Once it stops, just move, and bam, no more beam chasing you.
Also, Horse, I think you pissed someone off, they carpet bombed the sh*t out of your rating. You damn drunk drood.
Also, Horse, I think you pissed someone off, they carpet bombed the sh*t out of your rating. You damn drunk drood.
Nice tip for Ice. I wasn't aware it could be easily avoided. Should make 3T easier.
I noticed the bombing as well but have no idea what I did. Haven't made any stupid drunken posts lately. Which is actually amazing.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
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