Sorry to bug all of you again, but it's a slow day between maintenance and blowing through my Linear IC test at school this morning.
So Ive taken this time to do some theory crafting and crunching numbers. Like I said in my earlier post today, I am at 538 Defense, which is good for heroics, but I want to go ahead and grab the last 2 points to not be lazy.
I read earlier in the WoTLK: Tanking in the Expansion sticky, that 4.921 somthing defense translates into 1 Defense point. So by rough estimate, we naturally have 400 defense and need 140 for uncrittable (in raids, I know). So we need 700 defense "stat" (just did 140x5 to calculate) on our gear to gain the additional Defense "skill"?
If someone could confirm that last question, that would be great.
Also, I assume at 540 Defense is when diminishing returns occurs, so it would take more than the aforementioned number to gain Defense skill. And of course, the same probably applies for dodge, parry, and block ratings. If anyone knows about the diminishing return threshhold (sp?) for these values, that would be great too.
Finally, I am looking at my hit rating. I have the Seal of Vengeance glyph for the plus 10 Expertise it gives (although, i rarely use anything besides wisdon or light when soloing so i can keep going without stopping for anything). I have noticed lately, I get deflected on my hammers and SotR, it seems like alot. What caps are recommended for heroic hit ratings?
And jeez, I wish they would do Armory on a different day than server maintenanc, because these are the days I love to sit and tweak and study my gear.
Thank you.
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Defense QuestionFollow
It's exactly 689 defense rating for uncrittable, but yeah, 700 is fine. The diminishing returns is for dodge, parry, and miss, and starts out right away at 2 rating. I don't really understand the math behind it, so you'll have to look into that yourself.. All I know is that my 555 defense *says* I should have 11.52% chance to be missed by a boss, but it's actually slightly under 10%. Miss and parry get harsh DR, dodge is much better.
On hit rating, you want the same amount you'd want as if you were ret. 8% would make you never miss except with spells, and I think both our taunts count as spells. They still won't miss that often.
Expertise less important than hit, as many of your attacks can't be dodged or parried. 26 expertise is for preventing dodges, 56 for preventing parries. 26 isn't that hard to get, but don't even try to get 56. You'll just have to get parried and deflected a few times.
On hit rating, you want the same amount you'd want as if you were ret. 8% would make you never miss except with spells, and I think both our taunts count as spells. They still won't miss that often.
Expertise less important than hit, as many of your attacks can't be dodged or parried. 26 expertise is for preventing dodges, 56 for preventing parries. 26 isn't that hard to get, but don't even try to get 56. You'll just have to get parried and deflected a few times.
You don't want to gear for hit.
As a paly tank it's not an exceptionally important stat. It's a good "Threat Set" (Meaning set of gear designed to generate max threat).
However - it's not a vital stat.
This is the short response:
Stack Def till 540
Stack STA till you have >26k
Stack Block (And all it's respective stats) till you are block capped
Stack threat (aka what you are doing)
As you already told me you have 21k health and have not hit 540 - you are still on step 1. Don't skip to step 4 yet.
As a paly tank it's not an exceptionally important stat. It's a good "Threat Set" (Meaning set of gear designed to generate max threat).
However - it's not a vital stat.
This is the short response:
Stack Def till 540
Stack STA till you have >26k
Stack Block (And all it's respective stats) till you are block capped
Stack threat (aka what you are doing)
As you already told me you have 21k health and have not hit 540 - you are still on step 1. Don't skip to step 4 yet.
Scholar
35 posts
Update:
Now at 544 DEF
22k HP
Looking at enchants now to get to 26k HP, thank you.
Now at 544 DEF
22k HP
Looking at enchants now to get to 26k HP, thank you.
Well done!
I do not mean to hijack your thread but I have similar questioning.
I just broke 26k HP and my defense is overly high thanks to getting Revered in Wyrmrest(amazing body armor) and Argent Crusade(head chant)
My Defense is now 552(752 rating). Well over cap.
My Armory
I have over the Def cap, but am not sure what chants to replace with what, if any.
I also have a DPS Trinket still, and a 45Stam one as you can see. Not had anyone to run H AN with me. Sword is unchanted, looking for a Blade Ward chanter.
I figure for now remove the gem in belt(defense) but not sure.
I do not mean to hijack your thread but I have similar questioning.
I just broke 26k HP and my defense is overly high thanks to getting Revered in Wyrmrest(amazing body armor) and Argent Crusade(head chant)
My Defense is now 552(752 rating). Well over cap.
My Armory
I have over the Def cap, but am not sure what chants to replace with what, if any.
I also have a DPS Trinket still, and a 45Stam one as you can see. Not had anyone to run H AN with me. Sword is unchanted, looking for a Blade Ward chanter.
I figure for now remove the gem in belt(defense) but not sure.
Your defense is overly high because you have the Blue crafted gloves.
They have 71 Defense on them.
The Crafted blue gear at the entrance to end-game (say like 78 - 80) is all really good stuff to get you to hit cap. You have some decent gear, but that Defense number you have is inflated by gloves meant to help people reach Def Cap. They are NOT BAD - just no real stats but DEF.
I can't remember the stats on the first pieces of tier gear, but it's got to be lower....
FYI - This is very normal. Most tanks experience the total lack of DEF, then they def Cap, then they have a TON of Def, then they get some tanking upgrades that provide really good stats, but lack the Def of lower level items... By the end - I was dancing around 545 to 550. You don't want to throw out old tanking gear until it is "Two downgrades below" your current gear. A lot of times you'll get some new belt with a socket (Plus BS socket) and great stats - but, hmmm... Not much def. Well equiping it will make you a better tank, but you might need to put on an old piece of gear. For me - I rotated between the Epic BS shield and the Heroic Drop (Crest of Lorderon?) from CoS shield. I enchanted both for Stamina. The BS piece had more Def. The Crest had more stamina....
They have 71 Defense on them.
The Crafted blue gear at the entrance to end-game (say like 78 - 80) is all really good stuff to get you to hit cap. You have some decent gear, but that Defense number you have is inflated by gloves meant to help people reach Def Cap. They are NOT BAD - just no real stats but DEF.
I can't remember the stats on the first pieces of tier gear, but it's got to be lower....
FYI - This is very normal. Most tanks experience the total lack of DEF, then they def Cap, then they have a TON of Def, then they get some tanking upgrades that provide really good stats, but lack the Def of lower level items... By the end - I was dancing around 545 to 550. You don't want to throw out old tanking gear until it is "Two downgrades below" your current gear. A lot of times you'll get some new belt with a socket (Plus BS socket) and great stats - but, hmmm... Not much def. Well equiping it will make you a better tank, but you might need to put on an old piece of gear. For me - I rotated between the Epic BS shield and the Heroic Drop (Crest of Lorderon?) from CoS shield. I enchanted both for Stamina. The BS piece had more Def. The Crest had more stamina....
Do paladins no longer aim for enough expertise to prevent parry-gibbing? I would have thought they still do, but reading this thread would suggest otherwise.
This is no where near as important as it was in previous content because of the removal of crushing blows. And from what I understand some (many, if not all?) bosses no longer get hasted when they parry. The biggest reason to get expertise now is solely for threat purposes: making sure attacks land instead of getting dodged/parried.
^^What Maul said.
In a short/quick definition - you could be a good tank by simply stacking stamina (Once you hit your Def Cap) and so long as you didn't COMPLETELY ignore other tanking stats. I don't play a Druid tank, but I've OT'd for one with 46k HP. I don't think they get many blocks now (New mechanic) and I don't think they play like a DK (Crazy High Dodge/Parry). But on bosses - this guy made things so much easier. When it all comes down to it - you are gonna take some 20k hits....
To be a traditionally good Paly you do this however:
Reach Def cap (540)
Stack Stamina. (You need to be in the 26-27k range to have a fairly easy time in Naxx assuming the rest of the group isn't OP)
Stack Blocking stats (Block Value, Rating, and STR) until you block cap. I think you really need to be in SOME 25 man content to reach block cap, but could be wrong with new 10m Ulduar.
Maintain Block Cap while continuing to stack Stamina... Forever....
Now - A lot of people customize this.
Block Cap is probably 90% of people's goal.
Other goals include my first suggestion -
"Soaking Set" - Massive stamina to soak up damage. (Without turning retarded on the rest of your tank stats.)
"Threat Set" - Set that sacrafices traditional tanking stats for improved DPS (Without being stupid....)
"Dodge/Parry Set" - Set that doesn't focus on block cap, rather it focuses on heavy dodge/parry. (Roll on DK gear)
With respect to a THREAT SET: Paladins don't do a lot of threat from white damage. While hitting does proc some of our holy damage - I'm not 100% certain how valuable a "Threat set" is to a Paladin. A warrior might throw a threat set together, but someone might else would need to provide a better idea of a Paly threat set. Personally - I think it might only marginally increase your threat - thus a waste of time/money/effort.
In a short/quick definition - you could be a good tank by simply stacking stamina (Once you hit your Def Cap) and so long as you didn't COMPLETELY ignore other tanking stats. I don't play a Druid tank, but I've OT'd for one with 46k HP. I don't think they get many blocks now (New mechanic) and I don't think they play like a DK (Crazy High Dodge/Parry). But on bosses - this guy made things so much easier. When it all comes down to it - you are gonna take some 20k hits....
To be a traditionally good Paly you do this however:
Reach Def cap (540)
Stack Stamina. (You need to be in the 26-27k range to have a fairly easy time in Naxx assuming the rest of the group isn't OP)
Stack Blocking stats (Block Value, Rating, and STR) until you block cap. I think you really need to be in SOME 25 man content to reach block cap, but could be wrong with new 10m Ulduar.
Maintain Block Cap while continuing to stack Stamina... Forever....
Now - A lot of people customize this.
Block Cap is probably 90% of people's goal.
Other goals include my first suggestion -
"Soaking Set" - Massive stamina to soak up damage. (Without turning retarded on the rest of your tank stats.)
"Threat Set" - Set that sacrafices traditional tanking stats for improved DPS (Without being stupid....)
"Dodge/Parry Set" - Set that doesn't focus on block cap, rather it focuses on heavy dodge/parry. (Roll on DK gear)
With respect to a THREAT SET: Paladins don't do a lot of threat from white damage. While hitting does proc some of our holy damage - I'm not 100% certain how valuable a "Threat set" is to a Paladin. A warrior might throw a threat set together, but someone might else would need to provide a better idea of a Paly threat set. Personally - I think it might only marginally increase your threat - thus a waste of time/money/effort.
Personally, I wouldn't think a "threat set" would be a necessity at all for us Prots. I have my normal gear, and then I have about 4-5 extra pieces each to swap out for a higher "pure avoidance" set and a "trash" set. One set I trade a lot of block for more dodge/parry, the other I do the opposite: stack a lot of block value and have a higher block chance. Half the time I forget to swap my gear before a fight (trash or boss) anyway, lol, so any additional sets wouldn't do me any good >.>
Quote:
"Soaking Set" - Massive stamina to soak up damage. (Without turning retarded on the rest of your tank stats.)
"Threat Set" - Set that sacrafices traditional tanking stats for improved DPS (Without being stupid....)
"Dodge/Parry Set" - Set that doesn't focus on block cap, rather it focuses on heavy dodge/parry. (Roll on DK gear)
"Threat Set" - Set that sacrafices traditional tanking stats for improved DPS (Without being stupid....)
"Dodge/Parry Set" - Set that doesn't focus on block cap, rather it focuses on heavy dodge/parry. (Roll on DK gear)
Wouldn't the soaking set and the threat set be the same?
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
I'd assume they are talking about an increase in Block Value, hit rating and possibly swapping out pieces with high stamina for those with more strength (which gives you AP and BV) for such a threat set.
As a Pally tank its rather something of an offtanking set for picking up adds and maintaining snap threat like tanking a drake in the Sarth fight when every man and his dog are dpsing like the apocalypse is coming behind them, maybe Patch if your the #1 threat tank (ie not a soaker tank), but I havent come across an encounter yet where its been a requirement to use such a set. Even if your unable to maintain a perfect 969 rotation like on Steelbreaker its not usually a problem as long as your raid dps doesnt outgear you by a helluva lot.
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