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The Dreaded Two PercentFollow

#1 Jun 28 2009 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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1,970 posts
So Elitistjerks has calculated a roughly two percent decrease in feral dps output for patch 3.2. To the Druid community, do you think this is a nerf or just a minor adjustment? As far as I have been concerned feral dps is perfectly balanced as it is. Regular chart-topping single target and aoe dps, battle rez for the careless, innervate for the healers, instant land and flight form, cc-solving shapeshifting, I mean come on that's not OP at all :-P

Think we'll live through it?
#2 Jun 28 2009 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
My feel it is a very small nerf (adjustment) that has been made to look bad (by a tiny nerf to every ability listed individually in the notes) mainly to shut up the qq'ers complaining that we are OP. I think we came out of the process really well - most of us won't even see the difference.

#3 Jun 28 2009 at 6:06 PM Rating: Default
I think its nuts when we ferals have to pretty much rely on single target dps and we get nerfed, but nothing to compensate for the nerf.

DK's, while got some minor nerfs got some minor buffs.
Pallies, same situation, maybe even not so minor.

The moonkin eclipse "buff" does not count because it only affects a very specific spec.
*sigh*

Just make (Swipe)(Cat) cost less energy and then the scales are even.
#4 Jun 28 2009 at 7:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,272 posts
Quote:
The moonkin eclipse "buff" does not count because it only affects a very specific spec.
*sigh*


It actually does count because any druid who wants to pve as balance is pretty much required to pick up a talent that has been shown to add over 1000 more dps for just 3 talent points.

With the change even in pvp it's going to be amazing because you can keep eclipse up pretty much at all times. This paired with the 4 set pvp bonus you have an instant cast starfire that has something like a 60% chance to crit.
#5 Jun 28 2009 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
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1,888 posts
ArexLovesPie wrote:
Quote:
The moonkin eclipse "buff" does not count because it only affects a very specific spec.
*sigh*


It actually does count because any druid who wants to pve as balance is pretty much required to pick up a talent that has been shown to add over 1000 more dps for just 3 talent points.

With the change even in pvp it's going to be amazing because you can keep eclipse up pretty much at all times. This paired with the 4 set pvp bonus you have an instant cast starfire that has something like a 60% chance to crit.


Too bad it seens bugged on PTR.

About the feral "nerf"...expect a further nerf. This one is too small and I bet Blizzard will say feral druids are topping the charts more than they should.
#6 Jun 29 2009 at 2:27 AM Rating: Decent
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496 posts
Violentnight wrote:
I think its nuts when we ferals have to pretty much rely on single target dps and we get nerfed, but nothing to compensate for the nerf.


Really?

I'm resto, but the feral druid in my guilds second raid team regularly puts out 6k dps on trash pulls.

Admittedly it's trash, but when else are you going to have AoE dps anyway?
#7 Jun 29 2009 at 3:31 AM Rating: Good
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1,764 posts
Kitty swipe is functionally the same as a rogue's Fan of Knives. Between Tiger's Fury and Omen of Clarity, you can get a LOT of swipes in a really short time frame. For serious e-peen, have your tanks pull all the trash in the first room of spider wing and use Berserk + Swipe. Make sure you have a tank that knows how to generate AoE threat, though.
#8 Jun 29 2009 at 4:05 AM Rating: Good
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676 posts
2% nerf to my single target self-buffed damage right now would be ~80 dps, not a huge deal and honestly almost unnoticed due to the complexity of our damage cycle. Letting Rip drop for 3-4 seconds could even give a drop like this.

I hit roughly 4k self-buffed on the heroic target dummy. I have reached 7k on XT in 10 man and average between 4.8 and 5.8 on non buffing bosses in Ulduar. I regularly top the dps charts on both bosses and trash. Less QQ and more pewpew.

Trash rotation is easy, get a few combo points, depending on length of pull, more for longer, less for short and then Savage roar. Wait for energy, Swipe, Tiger's Fury, Swipe spam until SR is almost up, refresh if needed, using Tiger's fury if it comes up again when you have >35 energy.


If you know any actual good DK's (admittedly there are only a few), especially tanks, then you'd understand that they got nerfed decently last patch and this one will be about as harsh as the nerf that druid tanks took recently. Although it isn't class ending, it's definitely painful.

Regardless, comparing our nerfs/buffs to another class is pointless since blizz in it's infinite wisdom has continued to balance dps/burst/efficiency/cc/etc... off of pvp, which imo is still retarded.
#9 Jun 29 2009 at 4:16 AM Rating: Good
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12,049 posts
Brisin wrote:
ArexLovesPie wrote:
Quote:
The moonkin eclipse "buff" does not count because it only affects a very specific spec.
*sigh*


It actually does count because any druid who wants to pve as balance is pretty much required to pick up a talent that has been shown to add over 1000 more dps for just 3 talent points.

With the change even in pvp it's going to be amazing because you can keep eclipse up pretty much at all times. This paired with the 4 set pvp bonus you have an instant cast starfire that has something like a 60% chance to crit.


Too bad it seens bugged on PTR.

About the feral "nerf"...expect a further nerf. This one is too small and I bet Blizzard will say feral druids are topping the charts more than they should.


Hence why it is a PTR. Remember how bugged SD was when it came out? No reason to think it won't be fixed within a couple of months when the patch is finally released.


As for the OP, I think my damage will go up. A new tier of gear, plus easier options to outfit in some tier 8 or equivalents? That's a nice jump over the Nax10/25 I am using right now.
#10 Jun 29 2009 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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3,272 posts
Most of you are misunderstanding me.

Before the eclipse change it's giving up to and over 1000 dps for 3 talent points

Now with the change its been showing that it will increase dps by 500-600 plus the original 1000.
#12 Jun 29 2009 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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3,272 posts
Quote:
i dont know if your knocking it because of the minor decrease to feral dps but it sounds like you are. Moonkin DPS needed a shot in the arm and eclipse needed some fine tuning, this covers both the drawbacks that is in reality the biggest DPS talent of the balance tree. Comparativley vs the casters around us (read mage, warlock for the most part) the DPS output from moonkin is lacking in that department. Compared to the DPS output of feral druids as they are atm it is not even close, specifically regarding single target encounters, which is where dps really counts.

Personally I dont care if I can do a ton of AoE damage on trash when it comes to the stuff that matters moonkin is hurting in the single target output stats. With our ability to buff the casters around us just by being there i think it is only fair and well deserved to get an additional 500+ DPS especially considering we always get to take a back seat on the best in slot items which are generally cloth.

Now if you can point to any reason why moonkin shouldn't receive a buff to DPS I am all ears, but in my experience it is a long over due change to one of our most useful talent points.


I was just clarifying what I had said, I didn't really need an explanation for something I already knew.
#13 Jun 29 2009 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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7,732 posts
When I go mew mew on occasion my DPS is competitive to beating other people.

In bear spec, with gear missing enchants. A proper spec and enchants will be insane.

The cat DPS cycle is one of the hardest. Blizz has the predicament of not being able to nerf anything to severely as then the people who aren't skilled will have absolute **** DPS. The rotation rewards a high skill level.

JOHN FCUKING MADDEN
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#14 Jun 29 2009 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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3,272 posts
Horse...

YOU'RE RUINING A PERFECTLY GOOD GAME OF FOOTBALL!
#16 Jun 29 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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4,512 posts
Galenmoon wrote:
continued to balance dps/burst/efficiency/cc/etc... off of pvp, which imo is still retarded.


I don't understand why it would matter if they lower burst as long as sustained DPS remains where they want it for PvE.
#17 Jun 29 2009 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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676 posts
CBD wrote:
Galenmoon wrote:
continued to balance dps/burst/efficiency/cc/etc... off of pvp, which imo is still retarded.


I don't understand why it would matter if they lower burst as long as sustained DPS remains where they want it for PvE.


Because they haven't been able to lower burst without ruining sustained dps, it's efficiency, etc... If they could drop burst to get rid of nuking people in arena and still maintain a balance in pve I would be happy, instead they continue to balance almost completely around pvp rather than pve content which they put 100x more time, effort and money into. I boggle.

To clarify, I don't mind the feral nerf at all. As Horsemouth mentioned, our cycle is complex, it rewards good players and punishes bad ones. We are capable of putting out some insane dps numbers as a "hybrid" dps. This will most likely actually make that even more apparent as the good players will continue to top dps charts while the rest will QQ about the nerf.

#18 Jun 30 2009 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
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4,512 posts
Galenmoon wrote:
Because they haven't been able to lower burst without ruining sustained dps, it's efficiency, etc... If they could drop burst to get rid of nuking people in arena and still maintain a balance in pve I would be happy, instead they continue to balance almost completely around pvp rather than pve content which they put 100x more time, effort and money into. I boggle.



I'm sorry, but I'm still confused. Are you referring to the Warlock Conflag nerf right after 3.1? I can't really think of another, recent, time where a class was nerfed substantially for PvP and it ended up having severe reprecussions in PvE.
#19 Jul 02 2009 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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391 posts
This whole 2% thing won't even be noticeable. I pulled 8500 dps on decon last night, so it will end up being like 8300 after the patch. I can live with that.
#20 Jul 03 2009 at 6:22 AM Rating: Good
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355 posts
fuganator wrote:
This whole 2% thing won't even be noticeable. I pulled 8500 dps on decon last night, so it will end up being like 8300 after the patch. I can live with that.


In my amateur opinion, that's less of a "This dps nerf isn't that bad..." post and more of a "Look at my deeps on a fight that buffs my damage by 100% for a good 80% of it!" post.
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