As some of you might know I've played a rogue intensely for quite some time after switching to a priest to see more PvE content. Recently, I've rolled a Death Knight (blood DPS/unholy tanking) which is currently level 74.
So far it seems that my DPS 'rotation' seems pretty much set in stone; keep diseases up, Heart Strike whenever possible, Deadly Strike to turn frost/unholy runes into blood runes to get off more Heart Strikes, and Death Coil during my "RP dump time". Unholy plays a little different, but the basics are still the same; I keep my diseases up, use Scourge/Deadly Strike whenever possible (depending on what I'm fighting and how much health I have), and use Unholy Blight/Rune Strike as RP dumps.
Now what I've noticed is that while reading DK info and browsing through the interwebs, people are constantly discussing addons needed to keep track of their runes. My experience with DK's so far has lead me to question why. Regardless whether I'm DPSing or tanking, it seems to be more of a case of "use ability X, else Y, else Z, else dump runic power" than anything else. I barely ever look at my runes anymore because there is simply no need to; the action bars will show me when I cannot use an ability and when I will be able to again. The only time I actually glance over at my runes is when I'm going to use cooldowns and want to have as many death runes up as possible to Heart Strike.
So my question basically is; why do people keep saying it's important to 'keep track of your runes'? My action bars seem to supply me with all the information I need to know, and they do a better job at that. Is it perhaps so that all the DK's who use addons to track their runes play without their action bars shown?
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You can plan out what moves you're going to do depending on what runes you have. Rotations are not set in stone, actually sticking to a rotation will get you to end up with less dps than the people who prioritize. I'd love to pit any pure rotation person against me any day.
Yes, I know the whole prioritize story as it's become more of a norm for most DPS classes lately, but that's not what I'm shooting at. The point is that while you do use such a system for skills (If [diseases are up] then HS else if [diseases are up] then Deadly Strike else if [diseases are up] death coil else Pestilence), it's just that following such a system seems completely doable without actually looking at your runes. It simply seems to come naturally because if one factor isn't true you aren't going to be doing anything else anyway. It's logical that you cast pestilence asap if your diseases are running out. It's logical that you dump your RP if all your runes are on cooldown because else you'd be spending time doing nothing.
The fact that the DK's DPS rotation seems to come so naturally you don't really need to watch your runes but that I still see a lot of talk about rune-tracking addons confuses me, and that's what I'm trying to say. I'm worried that I might've overlooked something as people seem to give 'keeping track of runes' far more credit than I would.
The fact that the DK's DPS rotation seems to come so naturally you don't really need to watch your runes but that I still see a lot of talk about rune-tracking addons confuses me, and that's what I'm trying to say. I'm worried that I might've overlooked something as people seem to give 'keeping track of runes' far more credit than I would.
Trust me, you do more dps when you can plan out your moves. I use IceHUD to see my rune cooldowns. I used to use runewatch
Having timers for your runes helps skate the immediate rune refresh trick (aka 8.5sec runes). If you are not concerned with the reduced refresh time from using them correctly a timer does not matter. Think it's covered in the FAQ, but it certainly is at EJ.
Well, I guess using a cool down timer would help in the timing of RP use properly too, but a comparatively minor thing if you're not rune refreshing.
Well, I guess using a cool down timer would help in the timing of RP use properly too, but a comparatively minor thing if you're not rune refreshing.
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Trust me, you do more dps when you can plan out your moves. I use IceHUD to see my rune cooldowns. I used to use runewatch
Isn't that what I'm saying? Barring a couple of obvious examples, Is there any situation where when your diseases aren't up you will NOT refresh your diseases? Is there any situation where when your diseases and some runes are up by you cannot HS you will NOT use Deadly Strike? And is there any situation where your diseases are up but all your runes on CD where you will NOT use the time to do a RP dump? I'm not sure what more 'planning' you want because as I'm saying, the next move when DPSing as a DK is always really straightforward.
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Having timers for your runes helps skate the immediate rune refresh trick (aka 8.5sec runes). If you are not concerned with the reduced refresh time from using them correctly a timer does not matter. Think it's covered in the FAQ, but it certainly is at EJ.
Well, I guess using a cool down timer would help in the timing of RP use properly too, but a comparatively minor thing if you're not rune refreshing.
Well, I guess using a cool down timer would help in the timing of RP use properly too, but a comparatively minor thing if you're not rune refreshing.
I actually scrolled over EJ multiple times and couldn't really find anything about runes in the basic DK thread apart from "You need an addon to keep track of your runes", which is what lead me to think that I'm missing out onsomething. Regardless, I'll give the boards some additional scrolling to see what comes up.
Aside from that, isn't it really obvious when you should spend your RP, then? Once I've applied my diseases, did 1 DS and 2 HS's and all my runes are on cooldown my 'rotation' has exactly enough room for 2 Death Coils. Else I Death Coil when I'm forced out of range due to knockback or something similar. There are only 3 uses I can think of for watching your runes; Checking which runes have turned into Death Runes, checking which abilities you can currently use and (specifically in PvP) checking how long it'll take before rune X gets back - it's just that all but the first can be done by looking at your action bar as well.
Either way, thanks for the help, I realize my OP might come across a bit vague.
I'll agree with the OP, but at the same time I haven't raided with my DK so I won't know how that situation works for watching rune CD's, but as it is, I'm already keeping track of so much stuff already I don't think I'd have time to watch my rune's CD.
I use Acherus to "track" my runes, but its honestly mostly used to have a really visual representation of my RP so I know when I should RP dump and when I shouldn't because of the Death Strike Glyph. I don't watch my rune CD's at all.
Pull with IT,PS,DS,HS,HS,RP Dump,DS,HS,HS,HS,HS,HS,HS,RP Dump-Repeat/ ad-lib as the encounter requires for either more damage or health.
The rotations/ priority system after playing for a few levels should be so etches into your brain that actually watching your runes shouldn't be necessary.... I DPS'd in Nexus with another Blood DK of the same level with similar equipment and at the end of the run I had done 39% (1.2Mil) of all damage and he had done about 25% (770k) and I got comments on how well I DPS'd. Not trying to brag, or say that I'm amazing, just saying that if you have half a brain, know the priority system and know how to prioritize your abilities, you don't need to babysit your runes to do good DPS.
At the same time though, I can see how knowing exactly which attacks and abilities you can do, when, can help boost your DPS a few points, but seriously, taking a game THAT seriously, and watching THAT closely means your not watching the encounter takes the fun out of the experience of this GAME,IMO. And if it does that... why do it when you can be good (not the best maybe) without it?
I use Acherus to "track" my runes, but its honestly mostly used to have a really visual representation of my RP so I know when I should RP dump and when I shouldn't because of the Death Strike Glyph. I don't watch my rune CD's at all.
Pull with IT,PS,DS,HS,HS,RP Dump,DS,HS,HS,HS,HS,HS,HS,RP Dump-Repeat/ ad-lib as the encounter requires for either more damage or health.
The rotations/ priority system after playing for a few levels should be so etches into your brain that actually watching your runes shouldn't be necessary.... I DPS'd in Nexus with another Blood DK of the same level with similar equipment and at the end of the run I had done 39% (1.2Mil) of all damage and he had done about 25% (770k) and I got comments on how well I DPS'd. Not trying to brag, or say that I'm amazing, just saying that if you have half a brain, know the priority system and know how to prioritize your abilities, you don't need to babysit your runes to do good DPS.
At the same time though, I can see how knowing exactly which attacks and abilities you can do, when, can help boost your DPS a few points, but seriously, taking a game THAT seriously, and watching THAT closely means your not watching the encounter takes the fun out of the experience of this GAME,IMO. And if it does that... why do it when you can be good (not the best maybe) without it?
Mozared wrote:
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Trust me, you do more dps when you can plan out your moves. I use IceHUD to see my rune cooldowns. I used to use runewatch
Yes, DRW is up, heart is out on X2. I'm sure I could find others, but that's the first one that pops into my head.
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Is there any situation where when your diseases and some runes are up by you cannot HS you will NOT use Deadly Strike?
Yes. If I've got just 2 runes left 1UH 1FR and my diseases are going to expire soon, but I know that I'm about to have a ton of cooldowns ready to go in a second or we will bloodlust soon or something, I might go ahead and clip my diseases to refresh them so that I have a full cooldown to work with in the future, rather than doing a bit of damage now, and having to clip my rotation during a BL or something just to refresh my diseases. Again, I'm sure I could come up with other situations, but this is the easiest that I can think of right before I pass out into bed.
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And is there any situation where your diseases are up but all your runes on CD where you will NOT use the time to do a RP dump?
Most certainly, yes. If I glance down, and see my DRW or other cooldowns are about to come up, I will sit on max RP for a few seconds rather than burning it on the off-chance that when that cooldown comes up, I'm not at max. Now if I've got 15 seconds or more, I probably can burn some RP and get it back, but if I'm starting to get close to getting that cooldown back, I'll sit on RP regardless of where I am rotation or rune-wise.
You cannot think in absolutes, that is why I HATE using the term 'rotation' because if you actually use a rotation, I will freaking blow your dps out of the water. You look at where your runes are, look at where your cooldowns are at... watch for boss phases (ie. heart phase)... have an idea when your raid leader will call for blood lust... or like on maly when you know you have time to dps without having to pull off to go grab the spark. There are too many factors to play by a rotation, and if you try to stick to one without planning out what you're going to do, you're not going to be the best DK.
Could I play a DK without any rune cooldown timers? Sure. I could probably play pretty good with nothing but the stock UI. However, give me ways to get extra information and plan out what I am going to do by a few extra seconds, and suddenly my dps shoots through the roof.
All the things you just mentioned *always* apply, as any class, whether you follow a strict rotation or not. If a boss is going to die in 10 seconds and your DOTs are running out, you don't reapply them but instead keep shooting shadowbolts. If your strict rotation would have you use a Mind Blast but you have 1 second left on Shadow Weaving you will hit the mob with an instant to keep that going. If the only interrupter in the group has died you will Earth Shock General Vezax rather than using Flame Shock for DPS. Etcetera. All that's called common sense. This is the reason why I put 'rotation' between quotation marks in my first post anyway. You're missing my point though. This thread isn't about realizing that brains beat machines but about what the use is of tracking your runes if your next move is straightforward anyway.
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I agree with Mozared. I never seem to run into the problem of watching my runes cool. I run most of my abilities via hotkeys and just hit the next one availible. PVE with my level or below I may get through 1 1/2 rotations. The longer fights I try to bring out the less used abilities as they are available. Does this become a problem at 80? I am 74 ATM and am looking into what I am to expect.
You use a rune add on so they come off your unit frame into more easily visible place.
Most off them also track diseases.
That is why you use the addon as it makes it easier to see what your runes, RP and diseases are doing.
Plus it makes your UI sexier.
Most off them also track diseases.
That is why you use the addon as it makes it easier to see what your runes, RP and diseases are doing.
Plus it makes your UI sexier.
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
on my hud I have my rune cooldowns as I stated before, but I also have bars showing my diseases and when they will fall off, as well as certain cooldowns and when they fall off (ie. DRW or bone armor). The information in the middle of the screen focuses my attention on my character, reducing the chance I'm standing in fire or a void zone.
If you can dps without looking at your runes, more power to you. That's just like healers who tell me they can heal without grid. That's awesome you can, but most people need to see stuff.
If you can dps without looking at your runes, more power to you. That's just like healers who tell me they can heal without grid. That's awesome you can, but most people need to see stuff.
Heh, if you want no rotation try out frost!
Rotation ends after your sixth attack and from there on its pretty much priority based.
Rotation ends after your sixth attack and from there on its pretty much priority based.
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