SO I am finally getting into PvP(unhindered by a guild ninja'ing my Emalon PvP shoulders because I "don't pvp enough". idiots) and I am a total nub at it.
I have 3 Hateful Gladiator pieces gemmed currently SPower/SPen. I'm a chanter as well but so far went with stats/sp.
I know Frost has MASSIVELY more survival and in fights like AV it's nice to get them bunched and Blizz out 10 people lol.
But the instant damage is godawful. I usually end up dead from DK/Pally/Rogue before I can do anything. I freeze, they just break out.
So I tried today so far as Arcane. Got a -ton- of kills, but I died a lot. I led a few BG's but not by much. Main thing that worked for me was PoM->AB dropping an instant 8k off someone, then following with another AB and a Blast, most nonPvP vets are dead.
The problem is this. Glass cannon.
If a Rogue, Paladin, or DK sees me? I die. It's that simple.
Any advice? Also, how much Resil should I go for? It's a HUGE hit to SP but I guess it's good?
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The amount of resi differs per class (I know DK's can get by with a mere 400 while my rogue with 700 is still getting 3-shot), but I'd say you want a fair load as a mage because mages are a fragile class by nature. Judging from your post you mostly play battlegrounds, for which really any spec suffices (hell, I can get Pyroblasts of in BG's). You'll probably want frost once you get into the arenas though.
The main thing with to keep in mind is that frost mage takes a long time to kill most melee classes. It won't be like arcane where you can just burst them down without much concern for positioning. You have to create separation which can be difficult against a rogue with all their stuns and poisons. This is especially hard in BGs because if anyone of the opposite faction sees you kiting around a rogue they will just join in the fight against you. Frost mage is difficult to play and takes time and gear.
In a BG odds are you will simply die if a rogue and any other class team up on you. Often times they just follow around someone else and then gank you once you've engaged the other class. Basically that means death unless you can manage to run away to some of your allies.
As far as resilience, it really isn't that big of a hit to spellpower once you get pvp gear that is comparable to your pve gear. It will be a huge hit to int, spirit, and haste though. Generally you take your best PvE gear and your best PvP gear and create a mixed set. As far as how much resilience that ends up being sort of depends on how good your PvP gear is. If you have a bunch of naxx25 or ulduar PvE gear and a bunch of crappy pvp gear then it's probably not worth using pvp gear.
In a BG odds are you will simply die if a rogue and any other class team up on you. Often times they just follow around someone else and then gank you once you've engaged the other class. Basically that means death unless you can manage to run away to some of your allies.
As far as resilience, it really isn't that big of a hit to spellpower once you get pvp gear that is comparable to your pve gear. It will be a huge hit to int, spirit, and haste though. Generally you take your best PvE gear and your best PvP gear and create a mixed set. As far as how much resilience that ends up being sort of depends on how good your PvP gear is. If you have a bunch of naxx25 or ulduar PvE gear and a bunch of crappy pvp gear then it's probably not worth using pvp gear.
The amount of resil also depends on your own skill level. The better you are at kiting and avoiding damage, the more offensive stats you can stack to get kills faster.
Arcane vs. Frost is the eternal debate since 3.0
I enjoy playing both, though I didn't start Arcane until pretty recently. I played Frost for so long, when I went Arcane I was just like WOW THIS DAMAGE, I CAN KILL FLAG CARRIERS AND HEALERS NOW. Of course like you say, without a 4-5k shield absorb every 24 seconds you're much squishier.
And there are plenty of DKs in the top 100 who still wear stacked resilience (800+) and there are rogues like Akrios (probably a top 10 rogue in the world right now) who only run with 150 resilience in 2v2. In his words, resilience is useless for rogues, you are about avoiding and dealing damage, not tanking damage. Resilience is a stat to let you tank more damage.
Mages AND rogues should not be tanking damage when played perfectly. Now there are rogues who wear alot of resilience in PVP of course as well, some top rogues included. And if you play with a healer, well you're goign to be tanking alot more damage whether you like it or not. But in a double DPS setup you time your cooldowns properly, avoid damage without relying on resilience and use your raid gear for burst like Akrios does.
Edited, Jun 14th 2009 6:20pm by mikelolol
Arcane vs. Frost is the eternal debate since 3.0
I enjoy playing both, though I didn't start Arcane until pretty recently. I played Frost for so long, when I went Arcane I was just like WOW THIS DAMAGE, I CAN KILL FLAG CARRIERS AND HEALERS NOW. Of course like you say, without a 4-5k shield absorb every 24 seconds you're much squishier.
Quote:
The amount of resi differs per class (I know DK's can get by with a mere 400 while my rogue with 700 is still getting 3-shot), but I'd say you want a fair load as a mage because mages are a fragile class by nature. Judging from your post you mostly play battlegrounds, for which really any spec suffices (hell, I can get Pyroblasts of in BG's). You'll probably want frost once you get into the arenas though.
And there are plenty of DKs in the top 100 who still wear stacked resilience (800+) and there are rogues like Akrios (probably a top 10 rogue in the world right now) who only run with 150 resilience in 2v2. In his words, resilience is useless for rogues, you are about avoiding and dealing damage, not tanking damage. Resilience is a stat to let you tank more damage.
Mages AND rogues should not be tanking damage when played perfectly. Now there are rogues who wear alot of resilience in PVP of course as well, some top rogues included. And if you play with a healer, well you're goign to be tanking alot more damage whether you like it or not. But in a double DPS setup you time your cooldowns properly, avoid damage without relying on resilience and use your raid gear for burst like Akrios does.
Edited, Jun 14th 2009 6:20pm by mikelolol
mikelolol wrote:
Mages AND rogues should not be tanking damage when played perfectly. Now there are rogues who wear alot of resilience in PVP of course as well, some top rogues included. And if you play with a healer, well you're goign to be tanking alot more damage whether you like it or not. But in a double DPS setup you time your cooldowns properly, avoid damage without relying on resilience and use your raid gear for burst like Akrios does.
22 posts
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This is my opinion on arcane PvP. Melee shouldn't ever get close enough to touch you, and if you're dying to other casters, you're really doing something wrong.
say hello to death knights.
dieing to other casters happens to me sometimes. warlocks, i jsut cant seem to beat after they spam fear so many damn times. Paladins-cant kill them. Dks-somesimtes. Rogues-sometimes. in my opnion, just can kill certain clases.
I also like arcane in BGs, it can actually be fun.
Don't use blink lightly, it's your stun breaker. Use it when a rogue pops out of nowhere and stuns you or a warrior intercepts you. Do not use it when a DK death grips you, you're not stunned. Freeze him (you can still do Nova as arcane), slow him (slow is a necessary talent) and run away. He'll chains of ice you... THEN you blink.
Once you've gone through the stun/blink dance with most melee classes, it will come down to can you kite them dead before someone else kills you, or they remember to use ranged attacks and take you down (this is where good DKs are a pain, lots of ranged attacks). If you've got a lot of mana, use your mana shield. You're going to die soon anyway and get a refill.
Paladins though... they're immune to slow in their bubble. This is very bad for you. Maybe someone else has some good advice there.
You should also watch out for Warriors. They have spell reflection. I've killed myself with an arcane barrage (another necessary talent). I'm not sure what to do about that either.
Warlocks: Counterspell Fear. Don't panic. Same idea with S Priests.
Also, Polymorph. You can't really take two people as arcane (can't slow two, and can't take the damage), so you'll need to sheep one very quickly (POM polymorph).
Don't use blink lightly, it's your stun breaker. Use it when a rogue pops out of nowhere and stuns you or a warrior intercepts you. Do not use it when a DK death grips you, you're not stunned. Freeze him (you can still do Nova as arcane), slow him (slow is a necessary talent) and run away. He'll chains of ice you... THEN you blink.
Once you've gone through the stun/blink dance with most melee classes, it will come down to can you kite them dead before someone else kills you, or they remember to use ranged attacks and take you down (this is where good DKs are a pain, lots of ranged attacks). If you've got a lot of mana, use your mana shield. You're going to die soon anyway and get a refill.
Paladins though... they're immune to slow in their bubble. This is very bad for you. Maybe someone else has some good advice there.
You should also watch out for Warriors. They have spell reflection. I've killed myself with an arcane barrage (another necessary talent). I'm not sure what to do about that either.
Warlocks: Counterspell Fear. Don't panic. Same idea with S Priests.
Also, Polymorph. You can't really take two people as arcane (can't slow two, and can't take the damage), so you'll need to sheep one very quickly (POM polymorph).
Reflect..... I myself have taken a tier3 Arcane Blast to the face and one-shot myself.
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