I had recently been chastised on more than one occasion by people whom rely on damage meters (usually recount), as their basis for assessing how a raid is going. I been hearing "you're not healing enough" when they put me on raid heals with 1-4 others. This never happens in 5-man heroics, because if I am not doing my job, nothing gets done-- it's usually blatant if a healer or tank can not do what they say they can in that situation.
Had these people had any understanding of how Recount works, or what healing actually means, as opposed to "over healing" and mitigation (which can be determined by a plug-in called Guessed Absorbs), they would know that we cant heal people that are not being damaged, which is the purpose of the Discipline tree. I can add the over-healing and absorbs to get a number that becomes equal or greater healing than the other healers, assuming that I am casting as much.
Today, I go to MMO-Chamption.com, and see a blue post that seems almost as if the developers had been reading my mind:
"One of the designers had an interesting experience. Their first Holy priest had much larger healing (total and effective) on the fight than their second Holy priest, so they asked the second priest to go Shadow. They kept wiping. They then swapped them, and made the star Holy priest go Shadow. The second Holy priest's healing was much lower, but they won on the first try. The second priest just had better timing and cast the right spell at the right moment, even though his total and effective healing was lower overall. The moral of the story is meters are very useful, but like any tool, their ability to measure what happens in reality has limitations. In my experience, players put too much emphasis on them, especially for healing." Source.
Blizzard knows for a fact that healing is generally subjective, and should not be judged by meters, because there is a lot happening other than healing. This example was not between two kinds of healers, but I think it illustrates how completely inane healing meters can be, especially to people who are used to relying on it.
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Healing Meters (STFO or GTFO)Follow
Most of the people that play this game are retarded. Seriously.
I had a seriously brain-dead lock pestering me over /tell the other night, telling me that I should go respec holy because disc is for PvP only, and I am hurting the raid. He even offered to summon me back if I went right then and respeced. Of course, since he has a priest too, he is an expert. Never mind that:
a) I am dual specced holy/disc
b) I was holy the entire night right up until the MT asked me to swap to disc for the fight
c) Disc is good for PvE? Welcome to Wrath? Read much?
Of course then some douche posts the healing meters in raid chat, of which I was at the bottom. He starts in again with "See? I told you so, holy is way better". I hate people sometimes.
I had a seriously brain-dead lock pestering me over /tell the other night, telling me that I should go respec holy because disc is for PvP only, and I am hurting the raid. He even offered to summon me back if I went right then and respeced. Of course, since he has a priest too, he is an expert. Never mind that:
a) I am dual specced holy/disc
b) I was holy the entire night right up until the MT asked me to swap to disc for the fight
c) Disc is good for PvE? Welcome to Wrath? Read much?
Of course then some douche posts the healing meters in raid chat, of which I was at the bottom. He starts in again with "See? I told you so, holy is way better". I hate people sometimes.
Quote:
Of course then some douche posts the healing meters in raid chat, of which I was at the bottom. He starts in again with "See? I told you so, holy is way better". I hate people sometimes.
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/recountguessedabsorbs.aspx
I agree completely, I'm just glad to be in a guild where the healers aren't idiots.
people seem to think that more heals is the same as more damage.
Unfortunately, that' makes the raid healer ore valuable the tank healers...
Tell them to go a fight where healers ignore assignments and try and hit the top of the healing charts and see how well that goes.
I may be an off-spec healer, but even I know that a healing chart poor way to measure a healer. Sorry, but you're just going to have to watch how they do in order to find out who the good ones are.
Unfortunately, that' makes the raid healer ore valuable the tank healers...
Tell them to go a fight where healers ignore assignments and try and hit the top of the healing charts and see how well that goes.
I may be an off-spec healer, but even I know that a healing chart poor way to measure a healer. Sorry, but you're just going to have to watch how they do in order to find out who the good ones are.
I run into this all the time and its rather frustrating. The addon guess absorbed is bugged in the sense it gives you 100% absorb rates and while it may be close to that if you use them correctly its not always the case.
I really enjoy disc, and I really don’t enjoy holy. But I kept getting this, even worse in a pug, so I spec’d holy for one week and started getting closer to the druids. I still get "how come you don't heal like you use to" and "pick it up like before" but thats useally from people I don't really care what they have to say :P
I love it when in 25 mans we have another Disc priest because it gives you something to gauge your heals by, but even then its kinda meh because one will be on raid heals using poh and one will be on tank heals.
If people are giving you stuff about your heals being low link your pw:s glyph, divine aegis, rapture and pain suppression. Tell them to go read those and get back to you when they understand how the discipline tree works.
It’s a tricky system we have to work within because blizzard doesn’t even track absorbs that well. You can get a general sense of how many are being consumed by adding the icon’s to grid and seeing who has weaken soul and no bubble. But in all reality the only way to really prove to people is to run wws/wmo/wol or whatever combat log parser is out there.
I ran with a pretty bad disc in a pug the other day who tried to tell me why he wasn’t healing so well because thats how disc work.
I put him on focus and noticed he was casting greater heal A LOT(personally I never cast it, but some do every once in a while) never seen him cast PoM (we are the only two priests so it was semi easy to track) and in general stood around a lot. Just because you are a disc priest don’t let your mechanics allow you to get lazy and not work on your game. A disc priest can be a bad player just like anyone else, but it’s a bit harder to judge (unless of course the tank is dying, but usually a good paladin can compensate for a weak priest)
Another thing I don’t like is when we run too many healers and I can never get a full penance off on the tank, I do kind of feel useless.
Kind of long winded here, but OP it happens—people don’t really understand how disc works in WOTLK. I feel once Blizzard starts tracking it and people fully understand how disc works we will get nerf’d a bit. Disc is amazing in 10 mans (lol 10 mans) and awesome in 25’s. Heroic’s are a joke, watch tv and read a book while posting on the forum easy.
I really enjoy disc, and I really don’t enjoy holy. But I kept getting this, even worse in a pug, so I spec’d holy for one week and started getting closer to the druids. I still get "how come you don't heal like you use to" and "pick it up like before" but thats useally from people I don't really care what they have to say :P
I love it when in 25 mans we have another Disc priest because it gives you something to gauge your heals by, but even then its kinda meh because one will be on raid heals using poh and one will be on tank heals.
If people are giving you stuff about your heals being low link your pw:s glyph, divine aegis, rapture and pain suppression. Tell them to go read those and get back to you when they understand how the discipline tree works.
It’s a tricky system we have to work within because blizzard doesn’t even track absorbs that well. You can get a general sense of how many are being consumed by adding the icon’s to grid and seeing who has weaken soul and no bubble. But in all reality the only way to really prove to people is to run wws/wmo/wol or whatever combat log parser is out there.
I ran with a pretty bad disc in a pug the other day who tried to tell me why he wasn’t healing so well because thats how disc work.
I put him on focus and noticed he was casting greater heal A LOT(personally I never cast it, but some do every once in a while) never seen him cast PoM (we are the only two priests so it was semi easy to track) and in general stood around a lot. Just because you are a disc priest don’t let your mechanics allow you to get lazy and not work on your game. A disc priest can be a bad player just like anyone else, but it’s a bit harder to judge (unless of course the tank is dying, but usually a good paladin can compensate for a weak priest)
Another thing I don’t like is when we run too many healers and I can never get a full penance off on the tank, I do kind of feel useless.
Kind of long winded here, but OP it happens—people don’t really understand how disc works in WOTLK. I feel once Blizzard starts tracking it and people fully understand how disc works we will get nerf’d a bit. Disc is amazing in 10 mans (lol 10 mans) and awesome in 25’s. Heroic’s are a joke, watch tv and read a book while posting on the forum easy.
The notion of using a glorified adding machine to determine the effectiveness of an activity that largely hinders on timing is, and will always be, a bad idea.
Guessed Absorbs also doesn't count Pain Suppression.
Which used to counter an expected burst or soft enrage can mitigate incredible amounts of damage.
I do like the guessed absorbs add-on, though. It's dodgy when used to compare yourself to others, but it works great when used to compare yourself from session to session.
Ever since getting it though, I've noticed a few other Disc Priests I've grouped with forsaking damage mitigation. My Guessed absorbs usually end up about 1/3rd my Overall Healing, sometimes inching closer to 1/2 depending on the boss fights involved. I'll occasionally see folks with Guessed Absorbs more to the tune of 1/10th their Overall Healing. At first I just figured it was a matter of my Weakened Souls getting in the way of their PW:Sing on Trash. But even Boss fights where the group is divided or specific healing assignments are given, PW:S and Pain Suppression are used sparingly, if at all.
The only way I can makes sense of that, is if the Disc had been pressured in the past and now heals in a way that looks good on a Healing Meter but doesn't make the most of their capabilities. Makes me sad to see my fellow spec bend to peer pressure like that, I just wish there was something I could do.
Edited, Jun 9th 2009 12:53pm by Zemzelette
Guessed Absorbs also doesn't count Pain Suppression.
Which used to counter an expected burst or soft enrage can mitigate incredible amounts of damage.
I do like the guessed absorbs add-on, though. It's dodgy when used to compare yourself to others, but it works great when used to compare yourself from session to session.
Ever since getting it though, I've noticed a few other Disc Priests I've grouped with forsaking damage mitigation. My Guessed absorbs usually end up about 1/3rd my Overall Healing, sometimes inching closer to 1/2 depending on the boss fights involved. I'll occasionally see folks with Guessed Absorbs more to the tune of 1/10th their Overall Healing. At first I just figured it was a matter of my Weakened Souls getting in the way of their PW:Sing on Trash. But even Boss fights where the group is divided or specific healing assignments are given, PW:S and Pain Suppression are used sparingly, if at all.
The only way I can makes sense of that, is if the Disc had been pressured in the past and now heals in a way that looks good on a Healing Meter but doesn't make the most of their capabilities. Makes me sad to see my fellow spec bend to peer pressure like that, I just wish there was something I could do.
Edited, Jun 9th 2009 12:53pm by Zemzelette
Well obviously GuessedAbsorbs isn't perfect, and no it doesn't count Pain Suppression. On the other hand, this is an unfair comparison. "Healing done" is used to calculate your... healing done. Power Word: Shield and Divine Aegis are technically healing spells to a disc priest but aren't counted under "Healing done". It's because of this that we use GuessedAbsorbs. The reason you can't compare it to Pain Suppression is because Pain Suppression is a buff the class brings which has nothing to do with the meters at all; Healing done doesn't calculate the effect of Power Word: Fortitude either, and it's precisely for reasons like this that you should never solely rely on meters to judge somebody's play.
The reason we dó use it is because it measures by the same standards as "Healing done" and gives disc priests a more accurate view of their 'healing done' in a raid. Not because it gives a view of their 'usefulness' in a raid. It usually is accurate enough for me anyway; adding my guessed absorbs to my healing done usually brings my 'healing done' to an amount equal or higher than the other healers, which is pretty much where it should be.
The reason we dó use it is because it measures by the same standards as "Healing done" and gives disc priests a more accurate view of their 'healing done' in a raid. Not because it gives a view of their 'usefulness' in a raid. It usually is accurate enough for me anyway; adding my guessed absorbs to my healing done usually brings my 'healing done' to an amount equal or higher than the other healers, which is pretty much where it should be.
Do you guys think I am being hypocritical if I judge DPS the same way my healing was being judged? I dont think damage is as subjective because the only time one "over damages" is when the fight is done, but there's still other things happening where DPS is not going to be important.
Usually, I pay close attention to how the DPS is working, as far as their rotation and how much damage they are doing compared to others. I can tell by looking that a DPS is not geared for a fight, if they are doing less in comparison, and looking at their gear confirms it. However, healing cant be based on comparison at all.
I heal for heroics all the time, and I the only times we wipe is if the tank is not geared well, so it's hard to keep-up. No one complains even then. This situation has been good for me to determine what kinds of situations in which I can be a good healer, and there's more pressure there than if I am sharing the responsibility in a raid.
Recount is more accurate than Damage Meters, because it records from the combat log. I dont enable the time features on Recount, because I am only interested in the activity.
There's an add-on called Drdamage that I love, which shows the theoretical damage or healing values of abilities on their tooltip. I have written to the author, because it seems the theoretical values are not close to Recount, and one guess was because people do not critical hit regularly. But, as far as personal evaluation, Drdamage is pretty good.
Edited, Jun 9th 2009 1:50pm by sederix
Usually, I pay close attention to how the DPS is working, as far as their rotation and how much damage they are doing compared to others. I can tell by looking that a DPS is not geared for a fight, if they are doing less in comparison, and looking at their gear confirms it. However, healing cant be based on comparison at all.
I heal for heroics all the time, and I the only times we wipe is if the tank is not geared well, so it's hard to keep-up. No one complains even then. This situation has been good for me to determine what kinds of situations in which I can be a good healer, and there's more pressure there than if I am sharing the responsibility in a raid.
Quote:
The notion of using a glorified adding machine to determine the effectiveness of an activity that largely hinders on timing is, and will always be, a bad idea.
Recount is more accurate than Damage Meters, because it records from the combat log. I dont enable the time features on Recount, because I am only interested in the activity.
There's an add-on called Drdamage that I love, which shows the theoretical damage or healing values of abilities on their tooltip. I have written to the author, because it seems the theoretical values are not close to Recount, and one guess was because people do not critical hit regularly. But, as far as personal evaluation, Drdamage is pretty good.
Edited, Jun 9th 2009 1:50pm by sederix
Quote:
Do you guys think I am being hypocritical if I judge DPS the same way my healing was being judged?
Not really, no. This is because DPS can usually be done at any point during the fight; there are very few fights where "having the right DPS at the right moment" actually matters, while having the right healing at the right moment is a prerequisite to downing any raid boss. It's because of this that DPS set store by meters a lot more than healers and tanks.
Also keep in mind that DPS and damage done sometimes differ; a mage with 6000 DPS isn't better than a retardin with 3000 DPS if they both have the same damage done. You'll see this phenomenon best on a fight like General Vezax. I happen to have a little example for this case here at the WWS for a Vezax near-kill my guild had. As you can see our mage Kranoz pulled off 5700 DPS while our retadin Exxie only pulled 2900; regardless, our retadin is higher in damage done because he was able to DPS the boss the entire fight while our mage had to spend half the fight running.
I think the main thing is to not follow addons blindly, it can be useful sometimes to look at healing meters (and overhealing meters) and in certain situations it can help you improve on a try (e.g. switching off-spec healers or suggesting alternative rotations), but I don't think people should focus on 'winning' the healing meters. For me healing is working well when most (or all) stay alive and it hasn't been due to good healers carrying the bad ones (like fights where one healer has stayed near full on mana the whole time and the other 1 or 2 have had to burn everything they've got to keep the raid up).
DPS is simpler, but still not just a case of the highest is the best. Some fights have certain things which need to be burned down fast, if people are nuking the boss rather than changing targets they might keep dps higher, but they won't necessarily be helping the raid. Similarly, if there's an aoe for example that won't one-shot someone then you could stand in it and get healed through it (doing more damage than someone who's moved out), whilst 1 or 2 people doing this might not hurt the attempt if all your dps decide that's a viable tactic then you'd probably find yourself running out of healer mana. Plus some fights favour certain classes over others (I love Gluth as a shadow priest) and so on.
I do think disc healers in particular though are at risk of being misunderstood by people who just look at meters rather than trying to understand them.
DPS is simpler, but still not just a case of the highest is the best. Some fights have certain things which need to be burned down fast, if people are nuking the boss rather than changing targets they might keep dps higher, but they won't necessarily be helping the raid. Similarly, if there's an aoe for example that won't one-shot someone then you could stand in it and get healed through it (doing more damage than someone who's moved out), whilst 1 or 2 people doing this might not hurt the attempt if all your dps decide that's a viable tactic then you'd probably find yourself running out of healer mana. Plus some fights favour certain classes over others (I love Gluth as a shadow priest) and so on.
I do think disc healers in particular though are at risk of being misunderstood by people who just look at meters rather than trying to understand them.
I apologise if someone has already said this but I am in work so I only have time to glance over what people have been writing.
As simplistic as this is, in my opinion the sign of how well you are doing as a healer is shown more in whether you are keeping the people alive who you are assigned to heal than the actual numbers in recount. Of course this is subject to people avoiding avoidable (hmmm, can't think of a better way to put it) damage like red swirly things (as I like to call the shadow fissures) on the Kel fight and bad luck.
In the end the best thing to do is ignore them when they are saying those things and just keep healing as well as you can.
As simplistic as this is, in my opinion the sign of how well you are doing as a healer is shown more in whether you are keeping the people alive who you are assigned to heal than the actual numbers in recount. Of course this is subject to people avoiding avoidable (hmmm, can't think of a better way to put it) damage like red swirly things (as I like to call the shadow fissures) on the Kel fight and bad luck.
In the end the best thing to do is ignore them when they are saying those things and just keep healing as well as you can.
If your raid/group is surviving then heals are fine. If people are dying then something needs to change, and even then it's not always the healers.
In the OP's case if your raid/group is surviving then you need to tell that player you'll switch to dps and see if it works out. If there's a significant change in health bars and/or deaths with no other change then you can throw that back in his face as proof. If you really aren't doing your part as healer there would really be no change in battle out-come if you switched to dps. Even then it's situational. That player really needs to play a healer, and even then he might be one of those that thing topping healing meters is a good thing.
Topping DPS is a good thing (as long as you're not dying, pulling agro, etc to do it). More dps means the mobs die faster. More healing is bad because it means your raid/group is taking more damage.
In the OP's case if your raid/group is surviving then you need to tell that player you'll switch to dps and see if it works out. If there's a significant change in health bars and/or deaths with no other change then you can throw that back in his face as proof. If you really aren't doing your part as healer there would really be no change in battle out-come if you switched to dps. Even then it's situational. That player really needs to play a healer, and even then he might be one of those that thing topping healing meters is a good thing.
Topping DPS is a good thing (as long as you're not dying, pulling agro, etc to do it). More dps means the mobs die faster. More healing is bad because it means your raid/group is taking more damage.
***** Healing Meters.
I'm normally on the bottom of the meter and I don't care. The other healers don't care, my guildmates don't care, and the dead bosses certainly don't care. I'll check the details of the meter to see how often I'm critting and how large my shields are (although the shield size is more an epeen thing... 7k the other night!!), but as far as basing my opinion of other healers or myself on the numbers... no way.
My GM normally raids on his rogue and is quite competent on him. Recently he levelled a priest for the times we are short healers. He wound up speccing her disc and asked me a few questions about class and spec mechanics. Another guildie (a tree) and I took an hour or so explaining the basics of a mana class in general and healing in particular.
He went off and ran Naxx and some heroics to gear her up and returned very excited. He had a blast healing and was ready for more. We went into Ulduar and he was actually pretty good at healing. He commented that although he knew the healers were doing stuff in the background and trusted us to do our jobs, the details had escaped him until he experienced it firsthand.
If someone points to the meter and says that so-and-so isn't healing enough, that is just plain ignorance of the class. Just as the OP commented, timing and selection are paramount in healing, not just blindly spamming the same heal over and over.
As far as using guessed absorbs to find out about your shields? It's nice to have some numbers to reference, but my shields really provide something else. I check out how well I am doing with my shields in the Overhealing tab. When I am healing a tank, my shields should be hitting the raid members that are getting or are about to be getting damage. With a 6k buffer, overreaction by the other healers is lessened, and you should see a drop in their overhealing numbers.
I'm normally on the bottom of the meter and I don't care. The other healers don't care, my guildmates don't care, and the dead bosses certainly don't care. I'll check the details of the meter to see how often I'm critting and how large my shields are (although the shield size is more an epeen thing... 7k the other night!!), but as far as basing my opinion of other healers or myself on the numbers... no way.
My GM normally raids on his rogue and is quite competent on him. Recently he levelled a priest for the times we are short healers. He wound up speccing her disc and asked me a few questions about class and spec mechanics. Another guildie (a tree) and I took an hour or so explaining the basics of a mana class in general and healing in particular.
He went off and ran Naxx and some heroics to gear her up and returned very excited. He had a blast healing and was ready for more. We went into Ulduar and he was actually pretty good at healing. He commented that although he knew the healers were doing stuff in the background and trusted us to do our jobs, the details had escaped him until he experienced it firsthand.
If someone points to the meter and says that so-and-so isn't healing enough, that is just plain ignorance of the class. Just as the OP commented, timing and selection are paramount in healing, not just blindly spamming the same heal over and over.
As far as using guessed absorbs to find out about your shields? It's nice to have some numbers to reference, but my shields really provide something else. I check out how well I am doing with my shields in the Overhealing tab. When I am healing a tank, my shields should be hitting the raid members that are getting or are about to be getting damage. With a 6k buffer, overreaction by the other healers is lessened, and you should see a drop in their overhealing numbers.
Quote:
When I am healing a tank, my shields should be hitting the raid members that are getting or are about to be getting damage. With a 6k buffer, overreaction by the other healers is lessened, and you should see a drop in their overhealing numbers.
Or they'll cast heals on people who they expect to be damaged and end up overhealing the entire heal because your shield absorbs the damage. Like your sig says, it's all about perspective.
Quote:
DPS is simpler, but still not just a case of the highest is the best. Some fights have certain things which need to be burned down fast, if people are nuking the boss rather than changing targets they might keep dps higher, but they won't necessarily be helping the raid.
A good example here it the XT-002 fight. One of our less skilled warlocks managed to get 3700 DPS in this fight while most of our DPS were around 3000. When checking the WWS I noticed that the entire fight he never attacked anything else but the boss and the heart. Yeah, a high DPS is cool, but not if you're doing it on the wrong target.
Edited, Jun 10th 2009 9:43pm by Mozared
*hugs all disc priests and misjudged healers* Those people are idoits talk to raid lead to get them off our back or drop the party/guild you're too good for that nonesense<3
I use a healing meter to compare my own playstyle to others, not to judge. I am totally guilty of picking up bad lazy habits in Naxx and it was a wake up call walking into Ulduar and trying to raid heal as I did in Naxx. The meters helped me figure out what was working with other priests who had not formed as many bad habits. I went from a PoM, Renews, CoH "rotation" to PoM, FH, PoH, CoH playstyle. It just helps me keep tabs on myself and improve.
As for what you asked sederix:
I mean this in the nicest way, yeah it is a little hypocritical. As someone mentioned before, the DPS can depend on the fight and the playstyle of the person. Maybe someone is having ****** luck with blue flames hitting the ground everytime they go to cast, or maybe they are tossing out misdirects. Who knows maybe the offtank is having trouble holding threat and the DPS on that mob have to hold back. My favorite (not that this would effect the person's DPS that much) is the Kologarn fight. I place a lightwell right next to the melee and tank. It doesn't get used it just expires, I ask the dead melee try clicking it to buy the healers more time. The response I got from one individual "changing targets will hurt my DPS on the meter". LOL yup, and being dead wont?
It is easier to judge how the dps do on the meters, but I would hold off on it. talk to the person if it looks like they are consistently lower than others of their gear and class and be helpful.
<3
I use a healing meter to compare my own playstyle to others, not to judge. I am totally guilty of picking up bad lazy habits in Naxx and it was a wake up call walking into Ulduar and trying to raid heal as I did in Naxx. The meters helped me figure out what was working with other priests who had not formed as many bad habits. I went from a PoM, Renews, CoH "rotation" to PoM, FH, PoH, CoH playstyle. It just helps me keep tabs on myself and improve.
As for what you asked sederix:
Quote:
Do you guys think I am being hypocritical if I judge DPS the same way my healing was being judged?
I mean this in the nicest way, yeah it is a little hypocritical. As someone mentioned before, the DPS can depend on the fight and the playstyle of the person. Maybe someone is having ****** luck with blue flames hitting the ground everytime they go to cast, or maybe they are tossing out misdirects. Who knows maybe the offtank is having trouble holding threat and the DPS on that mob have to hold back. My favorite (not that this would effect the person's DPS that much) is the Kologarn fight. I place a lightwell right next to the melee and tank. It doesn't get used it just expires, I ask the dead melee try clicking it to buy the healers more time. The response I got from one individual "changing targets will hurt my DPS on the meter". LOL yup, and being dead wont?
It is easier to judge how the dps do on the meters, but I would hold off on it. talk to the person if it looks like they are consistently lower than others of their gear and class and be helpful.
<3
Quote:
As simplistic as this is, in my opinion the sign of how well you are doing as a healer is shown more in whether you are keeping the people alive who you are assigned to heal than the actual numbers in recount.
In one group, it took us HOURS to get to the last boss in the Arachnid Quarter of Naxxramas, during a 10-man raid, with two other healers. I kept insisting we shouldnt need three healers, because I never been in a successful group that needed it. I have 3/5 T7 for my healing gear, and I think I had 2300 spellpower at the time with all the buffs, so it could not have been my gear.
So, after the third wipe on that last boss, someone says "you suck; you're not healing enough", and they also kept forgetting to reset their meter after I would announce I was going to DPS between bosses, and then I got kicked from the group. I Leeroyed them for putting me through all that, just for one quarter that was not even a full clear lol.
The problem with this, is not really ignoring them, but I recently was not invited to resume a raid because of people like that. If a group hears some crap about not doing my job, I cant get invited to raids.
:x Sometimes I'm almost tempted to use Guessed Absorbs in a bragging rights fashion just to cut back on that kind of idiocy. Sure, it's skewed in your favor...
...but they don't have to know that.
>=D
Healing meters are retarded. We did Mimiron on 10 man the other day with me as holy for a change (I usually run Disc). We had 2 Holy priests and a resto druid and everytime the tank got Plasma Blasted he almost died. We had to use Guardian Spirit and spam GH the whole time to keep him alive. When we looked at damage taken it was ~40% higher than when I solo heal him as Disc. Pain Suppression + Shield + PI + GH and solo healing a Plasma Blast is a joke. Even then my numbers are lower as Disc than Holy. Damage absorbed > Damage healed imho. Disc forever. I even changed my offspec to shadow so I never have to do that holy crap again :P
You have to keep in mind Mimiron's an exception though. You are *meant* to blow cooldowns on the plasma blasts, the damage is unouthealable even on 10-mans without.
Mozared wrote:
You have to keep in mind Mimiron's an exception though. You are *meant* to blow cooldowns on the plasma blasts, the damage is unouthealable even on 10-mans without.
Yep. Also the cooldowns of PS and GS are the same before talents are factored in. I'm rusty on disc, I think talents lower the cooldown on PS, but the point of that fight is you're supposed to use minor cooldowns with a simple rotation, like healer 1 gets the first, healer 2 gets the second, etc..
Pain suppression the tank takes 40% less damage for 10 seconds, guardian spirit the tank is healed 40% more. They really are quite equivalent.
Anyway I agree in many ways about meters. I find my paladin's HPS dipping hard in alot of fights in Ulduar because I'm forced to stick to my assignment more, move around more. Beaconing the tank and healing the raid works fine in Naxx because if you get sniped he still won't die. Ulduar is far less forgiving so I don't raid heal nearly as much. I think I've become an even better healer in Ulduar, even if my place on the meters has dropped since I came in.
That said, it's tough to judge a good healer from a bad one. It's not as simple as "if your assignments stay alive you're good" or "if they die you're bad". Tanks that don't pop cooldowns at the right times for predictable burst, raid members who don't avoid the damage that is avoidable (it's not always easy but sometimes they don't even try). But meters don't really tell you a whole lot. Any raid leader who thinks the healer on top of the meters is the best healer is so dumb. I rarely even look at my meters anymore on any class (gearing my holy priest out in Naxx pugs atm, but I may switch to disc soon because it looks like alot of fun).
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted here. I actually stopped playing my priest for a couple of weeks, due to being somewhat bored / wanting to level a lock / getting 2 other toons to 80... but... the other reason is my first run at Naxx 25. I am Shadow/Disc dual specced and love disc for healing.
In all runs I have never had any issues making runs and keeping assignments alive. Now my first Naxx 25 run was supposed to be a 10 man, but they wanted to go for better gear and we got a group together very quickly. I then had to suffer through about 3 hours of non guildies saying that I cannot heal, and unfortunately, based on meters, I even had some guild members question my abilities.
No one wanted to take into account that while I was the 4th best healer, I had only 14% overhealing or the fact that PWS does not effect healing meters. It was that my healing of only 1800 - 2000 hps was way to low compared to the other 3 who were all in the high 2k's to low 3k's. Yet, the top healer averaged 48% overhealing. I was so annoyed I had to take a break.
It definitely seems that so many people never take the time to question how a class is played and base 90% of their information on how they THINK it is played or should be played. I can keep a main tank up with my eyes closed (okay, not really, unless it is a static fight and then I can remember number assignments I probably could...) but unfortunately it seems in the large runs no one cares about that. The other item that annoys me, is that while the druid or pally was near done with mana, I still had half a bar left, so while they were regening I switched to healing all tanks and again I was fine, but because HPS is lower, it must mean I suck.
Oh well, just saying thanks to all my fellow priests for letting me know that it is a normal issue for everyone to deal with.
Thanks!!!!
In all runs I have never had any issues making runs and keeping assignments alive. Now my first Naxx 25 run was supposed to be a 10 man, but they wanted to go for better gear and we got a group together very quickly. I then had to suffer through about 3 hours of non guildies saying that I cannot heal, and unfortunately, based on meters, I even had some guild members question my abilities.
No one wanted to take into account that while I was the 4th best healer, I had only 14% overhealing or the fact that PWS does not effect healing meters. It was that my healing of only 1800 - 2000 hps was way to low compared to the other 3 who were all in the high 2k's to low 3k's. Yet, the top healer averaged 48% overhealing. I was so annoyed I had to take a break.
It definitely seems that so many people never take the time to question how a class is played and base 90% of their information on how they THINK it is played or should be played. I can keep a main tank up with my eyes closed (okay, not really, unless it is a static fight and then I can remember number assignments I probably could...) but unfortunately it seems in the large runs no one cares about that. The other item that annoys me, is that while the druid or pally was near done with mana, I still had half a bar left, so while they were regening I switched to healing all tanks and again I was fine, but because HPS is lower, it must mean I suck.
Oh well, just saying thanks to all my fellow priests for letting me know that it is a normal issue for everyone to deal with.
Thanks!!!!
My healing is also lowest on the meters, but I'm a dual spec'd disc / shadow. I usually get the main tank to heal in boss fights, in trash I throw hots around. I don't usually have any problems whatsoever with keeping my targets alive and backing up others as well.
I'm also known as the healer who won't heal stupid dps if they constantly stand in the fire. They get a hot and that's it. If someone thinks I can't heal, they are welcome to go find another healer. Thankfully I only pug heroics, so I don't encounter this much. I can handle any of the heroics with no problem even if the group is undergeared.
I usally heal 10 nax, and shadow 25 man naxx. Haven't been in Ulduar yet, but now I'm all in purples except for trinkets, I'm gonna give it a whirl. Hope to get pushed to the limit in healing as for right now, it's too easy.
I'm also known as the healer who won't heal stupid dps if they constantly stand in the fire. They get a hot and that's it. If someone thinks I can't heal, they are welcome to go find another healer. Thankfully I only pug heroics, so I don't encounter this much. I can handle any of the heroics with no problem even if the group is undergeared.
I usally heal 10 nax, and shadow 25 man naxx. Haven't been in Ulduar yet, but now I'm all in purples except for trinkets, I'm gonna give it a whirl. Hope to get pushed to the limit in healing as for right now, it's too easy.
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