I'm a Mid 40s priest. Got all the standard lvling spec. Geared Ok. (BoA shoulders, but then some greens that need replacing.)
I have about 3k mana and i'm noticing that I'm needing to drink nearly every 2 - 3 fights depending on the mob (Green, Yellow, Orange)...
Is this just a problem for Priest in their 40s - prior to getting VT in the talent tree?
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SPriest - Running out of Mana - Mid 40sFollow
Well, I leveled before the out of combat mana nerf, so I can't contribute much, but:
1- Are you using your wand? You don't need to nuke everything down, you can toss up a few spells and drop a bit and wand it down so you get the full bonus of spirit tap (less important now that the mana regen is 83%)
2-Are you using devouring plauge? This spell is a mana hog while leveling. it's expensive and doesn't do THAT much while leveling (mobs normally don't last long enough for it to be worthwhile).
3-Do you have improved shadow form? If so, you can stop using PW:S when going 1-on-1, that will save on mana.
4-are you stacking spirit (when possible)? Spellpower is important, but don't forget that while leveling not having to rest is a big bonus, and spirit tap does double our spirit.
Listing what you normally do would help as well.
1- Are you using your wand? You don't need to nuke everything down, you can toss up a few spells and drop a bit and wand it down so you get the full bonus of spirit tap (less important now that the mana regen is 83%)
2-Are you using devouring plauge? This spell is a mana hog while leveling. it's expensive and doesn't do THAT much while leveling (mobs normally don't last long enough for it to be worthwhile).
3-Do you have improved shadow form? If so, you can stop using PW:S when going 1-on-1, that will save on mana.
4-are you stacking spirit (when possible)? Spellpower is important, but don't forget that while leveling not having to rest is a big bonus, and spirit tap does double our spirit.
Listing what you normally do would help as well.
Though BakaShinobi's post is more detailed than mine will be, I'm guessing his number 1 is your main problem; instead of stopping to wand at 30% (while there's DOTs up), you are probably using Mind Blast and Mind Flay to nuke him to 0%, right?
When I levled I mostly did 5 levels below mine, quested about a zone behind other toons
I wouldn't be using sw:p that often, I mostly mb,mf,mf,mf. Drinking isn't really too bad, its some downtime but its the price you pay for being able to heal yourself.
Once you get VT it will improve A LOT. Some people are even leveling as holy/disc in WOTLK so you might want to check that out see if it helps you at all
All in all just don't be fighting orange mobs and you should be good :)
I wouldn't be using sw:p that often, I mostly mb,mf,mf,mf. Drinking isn't really too bad, its some downtime but its the price you pay for being able to heal yourself.
Once you get VT it will improve A LOT. Some people are even leveling as holy/disc in WOTLK so you might want to check that out see if it helps you at all
All in all just don't be fighting orange mobs and you should be good :)
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Though BakaShinobi's post is more detailed than mine will be, I'm guessing his number 1 is your main problem;
That's the wierd thing... I lvled from 1-44 prior to Wrath. I now have my other toons at 80 and it's getting to the point that they are running out of things to do. So - Back to priest.
Way back when I started this toon - you guys told me the same stuff... It worked great.
My rotation:
In Shadow Form
MB, Pain, Shield, Wand till dead.
-OR-
MB, Pain, Shield, Plauge, Wand till dead.
The first rotation leaves me with 2300/3k and the second leaves me with like 2000/3k... If I'm using the first rotation I get hit - so every once in a while I'll put VE on a mob, but that requires even more casting...
I think that the out-of-combat nerf was aimed at upper lvl toons. (Of course it was) Did they consider the massive annoyance that this puts on lvl'ing??? If I pull 2 mobs by accident, pat, or simply forced to pull more than 1 at a time - I'm <50% mana because I don't get the full out of combat bonus to my spirit Buff after killing... WoW this sucks... I have a mage/paly. My Raiding paly carries slightly more food/water (4+ Stacks) and my mage carries a standard 80 (4 stacks) of mage food because that is all that you are allowed. Suddenly my 44 Spriest is carrying 60 @lvl waters and 20 food....
I wish I could just get a high lvl toon. DK get it free - why can't we all start atTBC content... I'm still stuck running through the mid-40s, my most boring part of the game....
All I can say is more int and spirit gear and just leave Plague for tough fights.
And yes, I agree, the mana-regen nerf should like leveling low levels became MAJOR collateral damage after that was implemented.
And yes, I agree, the mana-regen nerf should like leveling low levels became MAJOR collateral damage after that was implemented.
Also get a wand with shadow power. That way when you use your wand your health goes up and then there really is no reason to use DP.
There is a great wand you get from a quest in Alteric Mountains that is perfect.
There is a great wand you get from a quest in Alteric Mountains that is perfect.
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Also get a wand with shadow power. That way when you use your wand your health goes up and then there really is no reason to use DP.
There is a great wand you get from a quest in Alteric Mountains that is perfect.
There is a great wand you get from a quest in Alteric Mountains that is perfect.
Vamperic Embrace Description wrote:
Afflicts your target with Shadow energy that causes you to be healed for 15% and other party members to be healed for 3% of any Shadow spell damage you deal for 5 min.
Sorry, that trick doesn't work, very sad.
I'll have to test that out tonight. I swear it adds healing.
But it looks like you are right...very sad.
But it looks like you are right...very sad.
The whole wanding bit will not help as much anymore. As you have stated, the whole regen nerf to spirit has had an effect on the unending mana for levelling priests. I am guessing that a levelling spec is going to need to include Meditation now. There goes 13 points out the window.
While wanding does inherently save you mana by not casting, it's true beauty was to allow you to stop casting long enough to get the full benefit from Spirit Tap. Now, not so much benefit. =(
While wanding does inherently save you mana by not casting, it's true beauty was to allow you to stop casting long enough to get the full benefit from Spirit Tap. Now, not so much benefit. =(
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The whole wanding bit will not help as much anymore. As you have stated, the whole regen nerf to spirit has had an effect on the unending mana for levelling priests. I am guessing that a levelling spec is going to need to include Meditation now. There goes 13 points out the window.
Yeah - I ran the numbers - I'd need to drop 13 points into Disc. That pushes Shadowform off into the 50s and VT into the 60s. I think gaining Meditation would definately help, but I feel like I'm taking 2 steps forward and 2 steps back... I'm 45 right now - a few lvls from VT (Straight Shadow), and I have mana problems.
Is Meditation worth pushing VT off another 15 levels? AND - Pushing shadow form (Which I currently have) off about 5 - 6 levels?
I think that the Regen nerf means that lvl'ing a priest is just a bit of a pain... There doesn't seem to be a quick fix...
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I think that the Regen nerf means that lvl'ing a priest is just a bit of a pain... There doesn't seem to be a quick fix...
You're right, it's an end-game fix that hurts non-end-game player more than the people it was targeted at.
I'm going to guess that Meditation is not going to be worth it for levelling shadow. Those 13 points would probably be better served filling out the shadow tree, gaining Shadowform at L40 and pressing forward for VT by 50. I am not levelling so I don't know what a pain it is, but the damage potential in Shadow seems to outweigh the efficiency offered by Meditation.
All I can say is pack some water or bring a book while levelling. Maybe Blizz will patch the regen curve for Spirit and ***** up some other class. >.<
All I can say is pack some water or bring a book while levelling. Maybe Blizz will patch the regen curve for Spirit and ***** up some other class. >.<
I've haven't spent much time as shadow, but as a priest, you should pack plenty of water. You will need to drink from time to time. Try the tactics suggested above to minimize the need, but realize it's part of the game for a priest. I use an addon to automatically load up on stacks of water whenever I visit a vendor.
It is a phenomenal difference on my affliction warlock, who while questing, can end a fight with full health and mana.
It is a phenomenal difference on my affliction warlock, who while questing, can end a fight with full health and mana.
The Honorable dadanox wrote:
I've haven't spent much time as shadow, but as a priest, you should pack plenty of water. You will need to drink from time to time. Try the tactics suggested above to minimize the need, but realize it's part of the game for a priest. I use an addon to automatically load up on stacks of water whenever I visit a vendor.
It is a phenomenal difference on my affliction warlock, who while questing, can end a fight with full health and mana.
It is a phenomenal difference on my affliction warlock, who while questing, can end a fight with full health and mana.
That's the point, the efficiency and power of a levelling shadow priest follow curves of sorts. Spirit Tap early on helps on the mana regen, but your damage is a bit under par. Once you hit 40 and get Shadow Form, the damage rises dramatically as your efficiency begins to wane, yet still allows grinding without stopping for water very often. At L50 and Vampiric Touch, the damage and efficiency curves are both on the rise in unison, making levelling a dream instead of a chore.
(I don't have any numbers to support this, but ask any priest that levelled as Shadow and you will hear the same story over and over.)
The changes to regen in order to rectify the mana situation at max level has had an impact on those that are levelling. Spirit Tap is a great talent because it scales well. However, when the base of the scale is reduced (the out of combat regen nerf for Spirit), the must-have talent that scales up well also scales down just as effectively.
While I was levelling my priest as shadow, my stacks of water and food went mostly untouched. There were a few "oh crap" moments when I got into sticky situations that required me to pop a pot. It was then I realized that the ones I carried were way under level and mostly useless. I just rarely needed them and didn't make a priority of upgrading something that I so rarely used.
I just got on to my level 40 BE shadow priest and soloed a bit.
Killed about 20 Jungle Raptor (level ~40) and never had to stop.
What I did was PW:S > MB > SW:P > MF > wand down.
only got low on mana when I double pulled.
here's the armory to if that helps.
It's not fast, but I never have to stop and it's about what I remember, maybe a bit slower.
P.S.- I also 'tested' (out of pure coincidence) the VE/Shadow wand. Sadly, no health from that damage. Before Shadow Weaving was changed from a target debuff to a self buff, shadow wands benefited from that, but that is gone as well now.
Edited, Jun 4th 2009 9:55am by BakaShinobi
Killed about 20 Jungle Raptor (level ~40) and never had to stop.
What I did was PW:S > MB > SW:P > MF > wand down.
only got low on mana when I double pulled.
here's the armory to if that helps.
It's not fast, but I never have to stop and it's about what I remember, maybe a bit slower.
P.S.- I also 'tested' (out of pure coincidence) the VE/Shadow wand. Sadly, no health from that damage. Before Shadow Weaving was changed from a target debuff to a self buff, shadow wands benefited from that, but that is gone as well now.
Edited, Jun 4th 2009 9:55am by BakaShinobi
Start thinking outside the box. Sometimes it's better to use a light heal or two after a fight than to always use a shield. I'm also a big fan of fear kiting. Low mana, low damage intake, and zero shield usage (except with adds).
MB, Pain, Flay, Flay, Fear, Flay, Flay. Wand when low, etc.
MB, Pain, Flay, Flay, Fear, Flay, Flay. Wand when low, etc.
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Start thinking outside the box. Sometimes it's better to use a light heal or two after a fight than to always use a shield. I'm also a big fan of fear kiting. Low mana, low damage intake, and zero shield usage (except with adds).
MB, Pain, Flay, Flay, Fear, Flay, Flay. Wand when low, etc.
MB, Pain, Flay, Flay, Fear, Flay, Flay. Wand when low, etc.
The main benefit of shield is the ability to avoid pushback when channeling MF. Losing ticks on MF from pushback means that you have to cast more MF's, which can be more costly than the shield, and not to mention keeping IF up.
Though I will admit, if you Go with MB > VE > PW:S > MF > wand down and have the MF finish before the mobs gets to you, you can (depending on how you talented do a fight or 2 like that, then use shield and to the same thing to get health from the mob, or throw in an extra MF for more health.
It is all about personal style in the end when leveling, so there is no 'right way' to level, just go do what you feels the best to you.
edit: Missed the fear kiting part. I dislike fear kiting because it requires there to be no other mobs for it picks up adds from nearby.
Edited, Jun 4th 2009 12:46pm by BakaShinobi
BakaShinobi wrote:
edit: Missed the fear kiting part. I dislike fear kiting because it requires there to be no other mobs for it picks up adds from nearby.
No , it doesn't.
? Please explain, I'm intrigued.
BakaShinobi wrote:
? Please explain, I'm intrigued.
Try fear kiting 2-5 mobs.
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Sometimes it's better to use a light heal or two
Or bandages, as they don't drop you out of shadow form and should be faster than eating.
SW:P is also quite mana intensive, but it's been a while since I've been at that level, so can't remember if I had to use it to kill stuff in good time or not. Might log my lvl 47 prist in and see how she fares at killing stuff.
You might also want to consider grabbing some consumables if that's not too much work, spirit scrolls can be handy (and probably not that expensive), spellpower, spirit or mp5 food will give a bit of a boost and there's also elixirs around that level, though I'll admit I've never really paid attention to prices of those.
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You might also want to consider grabbing some consumables if that's not too much work, spirit scrolls can be handy (and probably not that expensive), spellpower, spirit or mp5 food will give a bit of a boost and there's also elixirs around that level, though I'll admit I've never really paid attention to prices of those.
This is what I've started doing - My 40s mage looks like he's getting ready for a 40s raid. I have scrolls, food, and weapon buffs... Hahah...
11 posts
The best pattern I have found of fitting is to make sure you use full use of range. i.e I cast VT -> MB (Run away whilst casting SW:P) -> MF so I still have full range then wand. Make sure you use that range so you get hit less and your DOT has more time to do more damage. It's the most effiect way i've found.
Grim
Grim
I'm curious as to what kind of gear your using as well as your spell rotation. I say this because my SPriest is level 29 and has 2.3k mana (and has some outdated pieces of gear that need to be replaced when I get home from work tonight). I've noticed that when I go to purchase new gear every 2-3 levels, my mana goes up an extra 100. By that calculation, I expect to be sitting at around 3.5k-3.8k mana by the time I hit level 40. The gear that you do have, what stat are you focused on? It should be Intellect followed up with Spirit (again, speaking from personal experience).
As for rotations, I use the following rotation:
Holy Fire -> Mind Blast -> Shadow Word: Pain -> Power Word: Shield -> Wand
Following that rotation, I rarely ever use more than 500 mana per fight. By the time I get to the Wand phase, the mob is usually at around 40% health and I can wand it down and only take 2 or maybe 3 hits before it dies after Shield disappears. In the time it takes to wand the mob down, I've regenned about 150-200 mana and once the mob goes down, Spirit Tap kicks in and by the time I am pulling the next mob, I've regenned close to 300-350 mana.
I never have to stop... and I don't expect that to change. So the question is... why do you have to stop to drink?
EDIT: I am now level 39 and have 3.5k mana and have yet to run into any serious mana issues...
Edited, Jul 4th 2009 11:22pm by neocronNV
As for rotations, I use the following rotation:
Holy Fire -> Mind Blast -> Shadow Word: Pain -> Power Word: Shield -> Wand
Following that rotation, I rarely ever use more than 500 mana per fight. By the time I get to the Wand phase, the mob is usually at around 40% health and I can wand it down and only take 2 or maybe 3 hits before it dies after Shield disappears. In the time it takes to wand the mob down, I've regenned about 150-200 mana and once the mob goes down, Spirit Tap kicks in and by the time I am pulling the next mob, I've regenned close to 300-350 mana.
I never have to stop... and I don't expect that to change. So the question is... why do you have to stop to drink?
EDIT: I am now level 39 and have 3.5k mana and have yet to run into any serious mana issues...
Edited, Jul 4th 2009 11:22pm by neocronNV
1 post
I have leveled a discipline priest to level 50. Very simple: Shield & wand till level 30, Shield, Dot then wand to 40+, Shield, Holy Fire, Dot then wand 45 to 55.
In most cases Mob was dead by end of one shield. Harder Mobs may take a 2nd shield.
I have found as long as the mobs are at least 1 level below me I stay 100% HP and mana. Same level or 1 or 2 higher, I loose about 10% mana per kill if i am keeping a fast pace. 5 levels up take too much mana to be efficient.
With new duel spec. I will set up shadow for the PvP
In most cases Mob was dead by end of one shield. Harder Mobs may take a 2nd shield.
I have found as long as the mobs are at least 1 level below me I stay 100% HP and mana. Same level or 1 or 2 higher, I loose about 10% mana per kill if i am keeping a fast pace. 5 levels up take too much mana to be efficient.
With new duel spec. I will set up shadow for the PvP
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