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Tanked my firstFollow

#1 Jun 01 2009 at 4:31 AM Rating: Decent
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164 posts
I tanked my first dungeon, it was a lot of fun, no deaths, and I took 68% of the damage. The problem I had was I had to pause after every few fights to drink. Maybe I shouldn't spam my abilities like I do on retribution. As protection I don't get mana back from judgements. I was expecting more back from being healed.

my question is does it get better or should I look for more of a minimum ability use when tanking?

smiles,

J.
#2 Jun 01 2009 at 5:05 AM Rating: Good
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1,634 posts
Need more info.

Lvl
Instance (H or Reg)
Armory
Healer - Type
DPS
Spec - Did you pick up our +Mana talent in Prot?
Judge/Bless?


Why?

Lvl - are you tanking an 80 instance as an 80 toon or are you tanking SM Cath, but 3 levels below lvl???
Instance - Some instances seem more mana expensive to me... I have no proof, just "Feel" like I need to do more.
Armory - What's your gear?
Healer - Was your healer shielding you? You need to take Damage to take heals.... Shields = bad for lower lvl stuff.
DPS - were you running VH with an OP healer and 3 DPS who were throwing out 4k DPS? You won't have time to take damage...
Spec - Does you spec suck?
Judge/Bless - If you have no threat issues but need mana - did you judge or bless for it???
#3 Jun 01 2009 at 5:07 AM Rating: Default
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3,761 posts
You could try using less abilities then just taunt if someone gets aggro.
#4 Jun 01 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
mikelolol wrote:
You could try using less abilities then just taunt if someone gets aggro.


This is bad juju, please don't.

Lowering TPS and just expecting to taunt back can not only backfire on resisted taunts but slows down the whole group. By the time you reach 80, one of two things will happen: Either the DPS is smart and paces their threat (lowering their DPS, making fights longer and more painful), or they're dead before the taunt kicks in.
#5 Jun 01 2009 at 6:56 AM Rating: Decent
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3,761 posts
Works fine when I do it. I rarely need to taunt but occasionally I will. I find with a typical PUG just judging, using hammer and making very liberal use of consecrate and holy shield is enough. I don't pull with avengers in almost any circumstance and I don't spam consecrate or holy shield every single cooldown.

This doesn't slow down my pace at all, it speeds it up. I don't think this thread is about raid tanking or serious tanking..for all we know the OP is still LEVELING, in which case what I say makes even more sense.

Basically don't overcomplicate very simple things.

Edited, Jun 1st 2009 10:59am by mikelolol
#6 Jun 01 2009 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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164 posts
Sorry I should have been more clear, I'm at level 51 I was buffed with blessing of wisdom, devotion, seal of rightousness, and of course Righteous fury.

I'd pull with Avenger's Shield, hit my main target with exorcism & Judgement as they closed, and the put up holy shield when they got close, then keep consecrate up and use hammer of wrath to finish them off. In between I'd use whatever abilities were off cool down other times.

I guess I was still in the DPS mindset from leveling with retribution. Which abilities are usually best for holding hate? Does the mana become less of a problem later on?

Thanks

J.
#7 Jun 01 2009 at 7:50 AM Rating: Decent
mikelolol wrote:
Works fine when I do it. I rarely need to taunt but occasionally I will. I find with a typical PUG just judging, using hammer and making very liberal use of consecrate and holy shield is enough. I don't pull with avengers in almost any circumstance and I don't spam consecrate or holy shield every single cooldown.

This doesn't slow down my pace at all, it speeds it up. I don't think this thread is about raid tanking or serious tanking..for all we know the OP is still LEVELING, in which case what I say makes even more sense.

Basically don't overcomplicate very simple things.


I'd rather go bawls out and practice a proper, thorough rotation and stop to drink after every few pulls than hold back trying to conserve mana. Our mana pools are pretty puny...with good vendor water (I always operate on the assumption that no mage will be present) it doesn't take long to top up from empty. If I start drinking as soon as my in-combat flag drops, I'm usually good to go within seconds of everyone else having finished looting.

HOWEVER, if your group is functioning fine with you using a reduced rotation, there's no harm in it at all. It's one of those gray areas where we have a little room to play before the game mechanics make the decision for us. If it's a case where a reduced rotation for the purposes of mana conservation is keeping both of your taunts on cooldown most of the time, chances are mana should be a secondary concern. If, on the other hand, dps are still not overtaking you on the threat list with a reduced rotation then it doesn't really matter what your tps could be, the job is getting done.
#8 Jun 01 2009 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
I'll concede there, definitely don't need to overextend yourself if your DPS isn't causing issues. Just making sure it doesn't swing too far the other way either Smiley: smile
#9 Jun 01 2009 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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164 posts
Thank you, no one seemed to mind waiting 10 seconds between pulls seeing as they weren't being touched the downtime was worth it.

smiles,

J.
#10 Jun 01 2009 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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370 posts

once you get the talent that causes Divine Plea to refresh when you hit a target, and have BoSanc, your mana worries go away. I can go balls out at 80 with the 6s/9s rotation with no trouble, and with all the threat from holy shield, consecrate, and hammer, you'll almost never lose a mob.

If you're having mana issues but not threat issues, the easiest way to fix it is to skip consecrate every other rotation. thats your least mana efficient cast. You may have to ask the dps to limit AOE and/or make sure they are on your main target to compensate.

Once you have your 51 point talent and glyph for it, you can pretty much freely skip consecrate and not have to worry about losing hate unless you are sorely outgeared by the dps with you.

Glyphs can also help with threat at your level. The judgement glyph will at 10% damage to your current main single target threat ability. The RD glyph will also make sure your multitarget taunt will rarely miss, so if a dps pulls, even aoe, RD will pull em right back to you.

#11 Jun 01 2009 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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3,761 posts
I should have been more clear myself. I start out by getting a feel for the group and adjust my rotation from there. I obviously don't want taunt on cooldown every single pull. I figure the odd taunt is fine, preferably on a ranged DPS though, if we have high DPS melee I'll play a bit safer since theres less reaction time to taunt off them. I'm pretty quick on it though, but even still. You have alot more time to get a mob off a mage then a rogue.

Try giving sanctuary a try instead of wisdom. You get mana back each time you dodge/block/parry, that alone should help quite a bit with mana issues. I'm not sure if you've taken spiritual attunement yet in your build. Later on you'll get divine plea as well, and by 80 you'll have better gear and more talents as well, so you're blocking/parrying/dodging more often meaning more mana back.

Occasionally you're just not taking much damage at all, the healer is waiting 10-15 seconds between each small heal. In these cases you might want to pull 2 groups of mobs, just try to be careful about it.

Which instance are you running BTW? At that level I basically lived in the first half of BRD along with the odd ST run. Some people hate BRD, but I basically leveled from 50-58 tanking it on my paladin and my druid. Fun times. But I totally knew the way through it, where alot of other people get lost, backtrack, get frustrated and hearth.
#12 Jun 01 2009 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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2,183 posts
mikelolol wrote:
Try giving sanctuary a try instead of wisdom.


QFT. That's one of the first things I would do. Next, cut out Consecration from your "standard" rotation. It's a huge mana hog, so if you're not tanking large groups, it's usually better to not use it more than once, if at all, when you're having mana issues. I'd also recommend using Ret Aura instead of Devotion Aura. It would be small, but you'd take a little extra damage due to the decreased armor, but that might help you get more mana via Spiritual Attunement (you have that right?). Plus it's a little more threat, and you really shouldn't need the armor boost that low of level anyway.

One other thing you could try is sitting down for a hit or 2 (again, assuming you have Spiritual Attunement). Take an intentional crit so you can be healed up and get mana.

If those don't work, just take the time for drinking. You're the tank, generally speaking you set the pace of the run. Don't jeopardize your threat for mana sake :)

EDIT: I messed up the quote :S

Edited, Jun 1st 2009 7:26pm by Maulgak
#13 Jun 02 2009 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
Make sure to get the talent that keeps divine plea up all the time when you hit mobs. Makes chain pulling your mana regen friend. Use the glyph that reduces damage to you while Plea is up also to get more benefit for yourself.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 2:52pm by Fubbin
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