General Help for new RogueFollow

Long story short, I'm here for an updated. I'm new to rogue and had some questions but it seemed like any playing tips didn't matter too much until you got some levels under your belt. My original post started here. I was asking about hit rating and rotation help. My rogue is level 39 now and has a few more abilities. Below is the armory for him.
Armory
Leveling is going smooth which the heirlooms help a lot, but I recently joined queue for my first BG.
I was all pumped that I could kick some *** and that quickly faded as I came upon a warlock riding toward me and I realized I had no idea how to PvP as a rogue. It hit me all at once that this dude wasn't going to stand still and exchange whacks like the npcs I battle. I still ended up winning each battle, but I knew I shouldn't have to eat after each battle.
It basically turned into a Cheap shot - SnD - SS stack - Eviserate which got the job done, but I don't think it is the most efficient way to do it.
So my questions are:
-How to do you handle mounted players in the open, or to you stalk a close-quarter area?
-What is a good PvP rotation for this level range?
-How does it differ from being stealthed and getting an opener to them seeing you coming?

I'm continuing to chug along through the levels, but I hope to get some of the PvP aspects down along the way. Being on a PvE server I don't see too many flagged players out questing to spar with.

Try to keep this short and sweet.

1. Blind > Vanish > Sap works wonders if they see you and you can't restealth (ie in combat).

2. Sap mounted players. Requires a little bit of timing and Blizzard not failing on their BG server lag.

3. There really isn't a good 'rotation' in PvP...every situation is different. Your main focus should be keeping the target stunlocked (cheap shot, kidney shot, gouge, blind, etc.). Stunlocked targets can't do dmg to you, which is helpful in not dying.

4. You will lose alot of fights by starting out not in stealth. Without your cheapshot (or garrote, if you are fighting a mage) you are pretty much a warrior wearing leather, not plate. With a risk of over generalizing - you should be in stealth for most of the BG, whether you are flag capping or defending (WG,AB), taking/defending towers (AV/EOTS). I don't consider Strand as a BG on the grounds that it sucks so hard.

Don't be afraid to be an opportunist in BGs.

Stay stealthed for a bit, don't pick 1v1 fights. BGs aren't a series of duels - don't worry about killing everyone you see, kill people when it matters (at flags, in towers, flag carriers, healers). Move with a group. You get credit for their kills too.

At your level, Ambush can still put a serious hurt on some clothies, as can Backstab if you open with a CS. As a Rogue in 70-79 BGs (just started leveling him again), I'll often hang out in stealth with another player around. When someone (read: another rogue) comes and attacks them, I'll open up and get the kill probably 85+% of the time.

Same thing in WSG, I'll tend to move with a group, but in stealth. A group who thought they were getting into a 3 on 3 fight and has their healer gibbed by a rogue they didn't see until "too late" tends to go down hard.

Keep in mind that (unlike PVE) you can often restealth without using Vanish even once you've entered into a fight - just have to get far enough away, which isn't that hard if you're not being focused.

Last thing - as many people have said (or implied) control is at least as important in PVP as is damage. Don't forget that Blind can be used to help peel someone off your healer. Protect your healers (you'll get heals and win more) and target the other team's healers, since you're going to be damn good at killing them as a rogue.

Anyway, just some rambling thoughts, hope it helps you out.

If you're new to pvp, my best recommendation for spec would be shadowdance. Get a macro that lets you shadowstep-premed-ambush. 9k ambush 10k evis crits are so much fun =P by the time you get the gear to survive more than a second in arena, you'll have had a lot of fun, gotten to understand other people's reaction times (bad) and gotten bored of ambush restealth ****, you'll have tried mutilate and will be all stoked up to rape **** in arena.

I can crit clothies for 7k w/ 3k AP in a mut spec. I'm sure it's possible.

Not really, weapons play a much less deal then you think. I have a pic of me doing a 1200 mainhand mutilate crit with a 6-12 damage dagger, and a 1675 crit with my 317 offhand dagger on the target dummy. 750 attack power adds roughly 100~ damage to your weapon, so as long as you have enough of that you'll be hitting huge regardless of how good your daggers are.

Of course good weapons matter, but saying a 370 damage weapon is way stronger then a 310 damage one isn't very accurate, it's roughly a 450 AP difference. I could probably get my attack to 6k in sub with a couple buffs and using a trinket, and with a 310 damage dagger I seriously doubt i'd be poking people for anything remotely close to 9k.

Eviscerate would do 10k though, for sure.

Edited, May 25th 2009 1:01pm by Zafire

^this

I sometimes ***** up because I get too impatient and just want to kill something. But it's worth taking a few seconds to size up the situation. The first people I look for are cloth healers in their backlines; since many BG players will pound on a warrior/dk/pally with a healbot forever, it's up to us rogues to take them out. Of course, you'll be very exposed and probably die after you do, and if you don't like that you can try playing defense to your own healers or others who are getting focus-fired by other rogues etc.

I notice you (op) said you were using SnD in pvp? Generally this isn't done for the thing you noticed--targets often move around, making white damage less important to taking them on as compared with yellow (special attacks). SnD will be wasted if you're frost-novaed or feared etc, but if you'd used that as an evis or rupture or etc. it won't be.

Mounted players in the open--apply crippling poison to your weps, which should always be on whether by itself or from the Mut talent. You'll be plenty faster than a mounted player with crip on him.

I may have misunderstood though. If they're moving along in a straight line, and you're almost in range while stealthed to sap or open on them, a well-timed distract can either make them run towards you, or stop them in their tracks. It's also quite useful just to delay part of a big group from getting to your big group. As in, your team has 5 defenders and 7 enemies are mounted coming towards you. Move ahead of your group a bit and distract half of them. The rest will be without that backup for a few seconds (depending on how good or bad the enemies are at immediately recovering from distract), which can make the difference. Also, some of the ones you distracted will immediately dismount and fire off aoes to try to find the evil rogue. Just go back to your group and pwn the ones you didn't distract while the ones you did are being dumb by dismounting too far away.

Edited, May 30th 2009 1:57pm by Palpitus