Spirit on plate healing gear? - Blue PostFollow

Below is a quote from a blue post discussing the MP5 itemization on plate healing gear.



What really troubles me is the possibility of illumination getting a nerf, and using spirit as a true "regen" stat for healadins. If they are to do that, would that mean they would change all of the current gear to include spirit? Really I don't see a reason to change this. Discuss.

Also, on our Ulduar10 last night we downed XT and Hodir hard mode. Pretty easy fights now. Had 3 healers on XT, holy pally (me), a disc priest and a resto shammy. Only had myself and the disc priest on Hodir. I will say the hard modes are very exciting and they bring a fun challenge to the table.

"We itemized your gear wrong, but instead of itemizing it right, we're going to nerf some other stuff so you'll have to want the crap stats we shouldn't have put on your gear in the first place."

They did design Illumination on purpose, right? It didn't just, like, get delivered by the Talent Stork and there's nothing they can do about it? Because if so, they've already very consciously and deliberately given us a regen stat. It's called crit. Something that's also become a huge regen stat for holy priests, again via talents they made up their very own selves, and filling a void they created, also presumably on purpose, with nerfs to spirit and regen overall.

And now we're in for another complete 180 on how they feel about spirit and spirit-based regen? Enough already with the spirit fickleness.

As it is right now I don't see any need for a change. My mana is not unlimited. I need to play wisely and itemize correctly. Isn't that the goal?

I would never play my paladin as Holy again. I'd probably just vendor all my gear if they changed it to spirit.

Horrible idea, and whatever blue that was should be slapped.

Pallies HAVE regen stats, and we TRY to use them. They're called Crit and Intellect! Now stop putting garbage on our gear instead!

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/17223095980-discuss-itemization-without-insulting-devs.html

I think that everyone is missing out on identifying GC sarcasm here.

It's the kind of change they may want to do so that "healer ring/neck/etc" is just as good for any healer class.

My issue is this, easy mode Ulduar Heroic I am over geared just stepping in with Naxx gear. So I had no mana issues and the rest of the guild from tanks to dps were just as overgeared using the last tier of gear so we steamrolled Yogg-sarron. Now we are working on hard modes and even T8.5 and various other upgrades I am screaming for mana.

I did Thorim (25 man) Hardmode on Thursday. You do nonstop holy light casts on your tank or he dies, I mana pot, get riptide, loh mana back, and go balls out just to keep my tank alive and by the end its just pushing it to another level. Even upgrading to BIS Ulduar its not going to be that much of a change he is always going to hit like a mack truck on the tanks. So comes back to balancing for two different tiers of players.

ok, this really is aimed at the whole thread, not just Amallthia, so please don't take this personally. this comment here is very typical of the attitude i've seen here and on the official forums. you hit the nail on the head here with your statement of ultimate arrogance... 'you the DESIGNER are MISINFORMED about us the CREATED.' are you serious?

i'm curious if some of you stop to think about what GC is saying, or if you just see 'you should want MP5' and start QQ'ing and saying the designer doesn't know the class. don't get me wrong, I love that I can stack int/crit/haste and ignore MP5. its fun. its effective. its one less useless stat to stack letting me stack other more useful stats. but if GC says the developers intended MP5 to be relevant to pallys, and that if it isn't then something isn't working as intended, how the heck can you say they are wrong about the intent of the class.

for those who haven't been keeping up on what GC has been posting, his main point is that other healing classes need spirit or MP5. if holy pallys don't and can instead stack crit for similar effect, then the same stat budgets will make a holy pally far more effective than others. that may be tons of fun for pally healers atm, but down the road may mean pallys dominanate healing so much blizzard needs to nerf other aspects of our healing to bring us back in line. when we crit twice as much as other healers because we stack crit instead of mp5 I could see SP coefficients or base healing amounts of our heals nerfed.

I hope there is a better way to balance us. I like stacking int and crit for mana regen. but if the designers say we should like MP5, don't tell them they don't know paladins. tell them mp5 is no fun. that's fine. but if the made a stat too good for us, it doesn't mean they don't know the class they designed, it may just mean there's a lot of things to balance, and int/crit fot out of balance for us...

so, for now stack int/crit/haste and ignore mp5. I will be. but when they change some abilities to make us like mp5 don't complain. adapt and overcome. life is full of changes. if you don't like mp5 roll a priest and stack spirit... there's a fun stat too...

Yah, that part I agreed.

I also said that no matter what they will keep it balanced one way or another, if number crunches say that the ability to stack or forego one stat or another is so good that it makes one healer class able to simplex and make the other healers obsolete then it's getting balanced so that it heals for the same amount no matter what. Seriously, even if they put strength and agility on the healer gear they're going to balance and redesign until you heal the same as other classes with same tier gear.

The part I didn't agree is in that we don't know better or that we can't tell what they do wrong or that they did wrong and so on and so on.

PvP was added as an after thought to the game./quote]

PvP was an integral factor of WoW on release, even if BG's weren't released until later and Arena didn't come around until TBC. The game was designed with PvP in mind, it wasn't a decision after the fact. Anyone that beta tested or played at release know this, blizzard has stated this, and its pretty much common knowledge.

Moving on...

The problem is that despite claims of being the people who designed the game and claiming to have an all knowing and infallible understanding of the classes because of that fact its pretty clear that they don't have a good understanding at all. Look at itemization in Vanilla wow, if you played in TBC look at the year long arguments on the O-boards about Ret paladins being trash in raid due to being threat capped due to lack of threat reduction talents that all dps classes get (blizzard finally figured that one out thank god). It took almost three years for the homogenization of classes, stats etc to start so they could start working on an even playing board.

Then it comes back to disparity in skill. Hard mode 25 man content in Ulduar is hard, like makes 3 drakes look like the joke fight that it is. Iron Council easy mode I never go below 90% mana and it is a joke with the gear, on hard mode I am almost OOM the entire fight, popping mana pots, LoH for mana, hell I even get a melee swing or two in for a chance at 8% mana.

How do you fix itemization when its designed to be used in hard modes that make 3 drakes look like Gothik, but given to you in easy modes that only require a fraction of the itemization? Of course most healers aren't having mana issues when they are using gear designed for bosses that hit for 50-60% more with splash damage almost quadruple what you see in an avg fight.

In T7 single targets healers aren't needed, though we do alright on gimmick fights. Patchwerk, Raz, Beacon tank + raid heal on Saph.

T8 easy mode has been nerfed so that there is nothing challenging to single target heal, so you can do whatever and mana is not an issue.

T8 Hardmodes are going to push you to the limit because almost everyone will see tanks taking massive spike damage scaling up to and past 30k, with 40k spikes (think regular hits like fusion punch on IC 25 man, and fusion punchs hitting for twice that).

no, he's saying that naxx is easy. there are no fights in there where you require a tank specialized healer (pally or disc priest) to be on the tank. those 'gimmick' fights just show off a pallys particular skills, but hardly need a pally. i've run both 10 and 25 naxx w/o a pally or disc priest healer and not even noticed a difference.



lol, good luck. that's like picking up a porcupine and asking it not to stab you.... ;)



Bode is one of the best pally healers and has been in top rated guilds as long as i've known him. because of this he has a large, abnoxious, but deserved ego. he's not a friendly person, but he does try to help in his own offensive way if that makes sense to you. its best not to let his ego or his offensive manners bother you and either ignore him or take what he says to learn from and not the way he says it.

as far as ulduar and mana, there are very few fights on normal mode that are a mana challenge for a pally. my guilds lack of clearing it has more to do with learning the fights and people getting out of things that hurt. our pallys end most fights with a good amount of mana left wether we're successful or a wipe. if you're finding that ulduar is a challenge for your guild, that's normal. if you're finding that managing mana as a pally is hard for you, you might need to reevaluate your gear or playstyle.

last note, Bode went from a top 300 guild (or something like that) to a top 100 guild recently. both of those i'm sure have the gear and skill to make normal mode fights in ulduar seem easy. there's a reason those guilds are tp rated and theres a reason they accepted him there. take his comments about ulduar with a gran of salt. many fights there are easy on normal mode (first 2 quarters are all pretty simple imo). these fights have unfortunately been nerfed to not be a tripping block for most guilds. getting into the watchers and i'm sure the last 2 bosses you have to start thinking a little more and not just muscleing your way through. ulduar is harder than naxx, but not incredibly so. i'm sure your guild will be clearing it soon too.

oh, if you want to know what makes mana management easy for a pally I recommend reading Bode's little guide here. its a great guide that will make mana easy for you. a note on that... the name of the guide is one more example of Bode's manner... its not tips for holy pallys or anything like that, but he'll tell you how you should play your toon.... it is really good advice though and I recommend reading it.

Also I am not about to call anyone bad but lets get back to why they designed easy mode content.

It is there so anyone who wants to can go see the bosses and experience it, it is designed on the assumption that you are undergeared and don't have a lot of raid experience or are possibly a pug and is scaled to that level of play. There is nothing to really stone wall you in terms of progression, in terms of gear checks, etc like with Gruul, Vashj, Muru.