I have a warlock of my own and what I normally do on AoE pulls is put a couple SoCs and then hellfire. But this isnt about my rotation. I was healing CoS on my paladin and I had a warlock in the group. Every AoE pull he would use hellfire and when it ran out he would use it again until the mobs were dead. So I was basically spamming my heals on this guy to keep him up and it was an incredible mana drain. I felt this was idiotic so I told him flat out to stop using it or I was going to let him die. To which he replied "Thats a first."
That comment alone made me wonder if I was wrong about it. Is that normal rotation for a lock to spam that spell? Seems to be an unnecessary pain on the healer. Especially since we're already dealing with lifetap. So my question is, is that spell the best possible DPS for a warlock on AoE pulls?
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Question about 5 man rotation.Follow
If you're destro you use RoF ,if aff,SoC.
It's true that HF does more damage but it's also unnecessary pressure on healer.
And HF can't crit,RoF can.
It's true that HF does more damage but it's also unnecessary pressure on healer.
And HF can't crit,RoF can.
Quote:
It's true that HF does more damage but it's also unnecessary pressure on healer.
And HF can't crit,RoF can.
And HF can't crit,RoF can.
If you have Siphon Life and Soul Link, then the effects against us are easily mitigated.
Then again, I see no reason to use Hellfire in parties or in PVP when Seed of Corruption and Rain of Fire are more efficient and can critical hit.
Edited, May 19th 2009 11:16am by sederix
You should try and see what happens if you don't heal him so much.
You play a lock, you know any good lock has a good backup plan to counter the self-inflicted damage. He might be stacking pot+healthstone+lifebloom+healing trinket for use when his HP drops or something like that. With the new Void Sac it's easier to have a pasv void to pop bubbles for hellfires. The bubble absorbs a part of the damage.
Maybe he just stops when his HP reaches a certain point and then switches to phase 2?
Maybe it doesn't hurt to ress him?
Don't paladins have great 2-target healing with Beacon of Light (aka Bacon of Light)?
Edited, May 21st 2009 1:02am by xorq
You play a lock, you know any good lock has a good backup plan to counter the self-inflicted damage. He might be stacking pot+healthstone+lifebloom+healing trinket for use when his HP drops or something like that. With the new Void Sac it's easier to have a pasv void to pop bubbles for hellfires. The bubble absorbs a part of the damage.
Maybe he just stops when his HP reaches a certain point and then switches to phase 2?
Maybe it doesn't hurt to ress him?
Don't paladins have great 2-target healing with Beacon of Light (aka Bacon of Light)?
Edited, May 21st 2009 1:02am by xorq
I recently took my Warlock through The Nexus and, having played my Death Knight a lot, was less than satisfied with the result. All in all I pulled about 850 DPS, give and take 50.
My rotation on pulls (since most are group pulls) was:
Haunt > Unstable Affliction > Seed of Corruption > next target
At one point I ditched that and just went over to spamming Seed of Corruption on as many targets as possible. Still, a Mage and Druid (tank) outshone me.
On boss encounters I figured I'd shine, because it would allow me to apply all my DoTs and do my magic:
Haunt > Unstable Affliction > Corruption > Curse of Agony (Doom was a waste since most bosses had phase shifts that dumped all debuffs)
Are these rotations completely nuts, or do I just need to upgrade my gear?
Armory.
My rotation on pulls (since most are group pulls) was:
Haunt > Unstable Affliction > Seed of Corruption > next target
At one point I ditched that and just went over to spamming Seed of Corruption on as many targets as possible. Still, a Mage and Druid (tank) outshone me.
On boss encounters I figured I'd shine, because it would allow me to apply all my DoTs and do my magic:
Haunt > Unstable Affliction > Corruption > Curse of Agony (Doom was a waste since most bosses had phase shifts that dumped all debuffs)
Are these rotations completely nuts, or do I just need to upgrade my gear?
Armory.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Mazra wrote:
Haunt > Unstable Affliction > Corruption > Curse of Agony (Doom was a waste since most bosses had phase shifts that dumped all debuffs)
Are these rotations completely nuts, or do I just need to upgrade my gear?
Armory.
Well first I would change your spec to get the most out of the Affliction Tree, plus some points in Destro. Though you ARE only level 71 so it might not be the best in terms of leveling, though the DPS output will be better.
Ideal build
For trash, if the tank is good, hit each mob with a CoA and a SoC. I just tab throught he mobs spamming SoC most of the time. If the tank isn't great at holding aggro against AoEs you can try CoA and RoF. If that still doesn't work just single target them.
On bosses your rotation should look more like
SB > Haunt > UA > Corr > CoA
Use SB as filler until Haunt's cooldown is up. SB until UA is about to wear, repeat.
Once the boss is at 25% swap SB for Drain Soul
Gear obviously plays a big part in your DPS output, but at level 71 there isn't much you can do about it other than level up and use whatever drops you get. But that rotation will pretty much stay the same as long as you stay affliction
Oh, I see why you open up with Shadow Bolt now. Hadn't noticed that Shadow Embrace stacked.
So Shadow Bolt and Haunt to apply 2x Shadow Embrace, then apply DoTs for massive bonus damage. Only Unstable and Agony needs to be reapplied since Haunt refreshes Corruption. I fill in with Shadow Bolt to keep Shadow Embrace stacked - right?
Cool, I completely forgot about all those talents. Haven't played my Warlock in ages.
I'm spec'd into Soul Link because I find that it helps while leveling since I'm drain-tanking most of the time, which is also why I'm not ready to ditch Fel Concentration. I usually run with my Succubus for additional damage and Fel Synergy easily heals the damage she takes through Soul Link. While Bane is tempting, I'm not ready to wait another five levels for Soul Link now that I finally have it. I'm on a PvP server after all.
And with Glyph of Corruption and Nightfall, I'm getting lots of Shadow Bolt procs during normal leveling. It's amazing what popping Corruption on 5+ mobs will do to the proc rate.
Death's Embrace is a boss talent, isn't it? Extra damage when the target is at 35% health? Only bosses live long enough at 35% health or lower for that talent to be really worth it. Most players my level have 10,000 health or so. At 35% health, they're down to 3,500 health which is a round of DoT ticks. 12% extra damage would hardly matter. Same goes for trash mobs. Once they drop to 35% health, it won't matter if my spells do 12% more damage.
As for the draining bonus, if I'm at 20% health (2,000 health), I'm about to punch the ticket. 30% to a 300 Drain Life tick (390) isn't going to make much of a difference.
Thanks for the build, though. I'll definitely keep it in mind once I reach higher levels.
So Shadow Bolt and Haunt to apply 2x Shadow Embrace, then apply DoTs for massive bonus damage. Only Unstable and Agony needs to be reapplied since Haunt refreshes Corruption. I fill in with Shadow Bolt to keep Shadow Embrace stacked - right?
Cool, I completely forgot about all those talents. Haven't played my Warlock in ages.
I'm spec'd into Soul Link because I find that it helps while leveling since I'm drain-tanking most of the time, which is also why I'm not ready to ditch Fel Concentration. I usually run with my Succubus for additional damage and Fel Synergy easily heals the damage she takes through Soul Link. While Bane is tempting, I'm not ready to wait another five levels for Soul Link now that I finally have it. I'm on a PvP server after all.
And with Glyph of Corruption and Nightfall, I'm getting lots of Shadow Bolt procs during normal leveling. It's amazing what popping Corruption on 5+ mobs will do to the proc rate.
Death's Embrace is a boss talent, isn't it? Extra damage when the target is at 35% health? Only bosses live long enough at 35% health or lower for that talent to be really worth it. Most players my level have 10,000 health or so. At 35% health, they're down to 3,500 health which is a round of DoT ticks. 12% extra damage would hardly matter. Same goes for trash mobs. Once they drop to 35% health, it won't matter if my spells do 12% more damage.
As for the draining bonus, if I'm at 20% health (2,000 health), I'm about to punch the ticket. 30% to a 300 Drain Life tick (390) isn't going to make much of a difference.
Thanks for the build, though. I'll definitely keep it in mind once I reach higher levels.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Mazra wrote:
Oh, I see why you open up with Shadow Bolt now. Hadn't noticed that Shadow Embrace stacked.
So Shadow Bolt and Haunt to apply 2x Shadow Embrace, then apply DoTs for massive bonus damage. Only Unstable and Agony needs to be reapplied since Haunt refreshes Corruption. I fill in with Shadow Bolt to keep Shadow Embrace stacked - right?
So Shadow Bolt and Haunt to apply 2x Shadow Embrace, then apply DoTs for massive bonus damage. Only Unstable and Agony needs to be reapplied since Haunt refreshes Corruption. I fill in with Shadow Bolt to keep Shadow Embrace stacked - right?
Exactly.
Quote:
I'm spec'd into Soul Link because I find that it helps while leveling since I'm drain-tanking most of the time, which is also why I'm not ready to ditch Fel Concentration. I usually run with my Succubus for additional damage and Fel Synergy easily heals the damage she takes through Soul Link. While Bane is tempting, I'm not ready to wait another five levels for Soul Link now that I finally have it. I'm on a PvP server after all.
And with Glyph of Corruption and Nightfall, I'm getting lots of Shadow Bolt procs during normal leveling. It's amazing what popping Corruption on 5+ mobs will do to the proc rate.
Death's Embrace is a boss talent, isn't it? Extra damage when the target is at 35% health? Only bosses live long enough at 35% health or lower for that talent to be really worth it. Most players my level have 10,000 health or so. At 35% health, they're down to 3,500 health which is a round of DoT ticks. 12% extra damage would hardly matter. Same goes for trash mobs. Once they drop to 35% health, it won't matter if my spells do 12% more damage.
As for the draining bonus, if I'm at 20% health (2,000 health), I'm about to punch the ticket. 30% to a 300 Drain Life tick (390) isn't going to make much of a difference.
Right, the build is mainly just an ideal build to shoot for that would give you optimal damage at your level against a boss or in an instance. Not all of the talents are going to be useful while leveling. I normally tell people to level with the talents that make you feel the most comfortable and give you the best chance of survival. But at level 71, I wouldn't focus too much on your DPS, just get through the grind to 80 and then start tweaking things.
I still don't see why affliction should open with shadowbolt, you're just taking 3 whole seconds of casting time to buff 5% to DoTs that are still not up. Either way the difference between applying the debuff at the start or the end of the rotation is very small, except if you chose to not apply it at the start you may get a nightfall proc and apply it for free halfway through your rotation.
The way I see it the rotation people are using does this (THE NUMBERS ARE SECONDS):
0
1
2
3 SB = 1 sb of damage + 5% of nothing.
4
4.5 Haunt = haunt + 25% of nothing.
5
6 UA = UA + 30% of UA
7 Corr = Corr + 30% of corr
8
8.5 CoA = Coa + 30% of coa
The way I think is more logical would be:
0. CoA = CoA ticks.
1
1.5. Corr = Corr ticks.
2
3
4.5 UA = UA
5
6 Haunt = Haunt + 25% of Corr + 25% of CoA + 25% of UA.
7
7.5 if nightfall procs = sb + 5% of UA + 5% Corr + 5% CoA + otherwise it will happen at second 9.
I think this way has stacked more damage by second 9 than the sb opening. It's visibly better unless there's something I'm not factoring in, and the funny part is that it's the exact opposite order to what people are using. But then I'm still not sure if CoA is better than CoE in a group environment where there is another caster.
Actually, the part of your spec that I'd criticize is that lack of imp fear imp howl and CoEx. While those do nothing for your dps, you play on a PvP server. :D
Imp fear is 5 sec snare and CoEx is 12. Diminishing returns reset if you dont fear/charm/blind for 15 sec. This allows you to kite for those 15 sec so that you can get 3 more fears. Also, I noticed no movement speed bonuses, those are useful.
I had the same glyphs as you but I ended up trading corruption for lifetap. I think they are about even but lifetap will just buff your spell power which is also good help for AoE spam.
Your minor glyph is useless. Glyph of unending breath is circumstantially useful in arathi basin. And if you're a fan of Eye of Kilrog then that one is great, it makes eye of kilrog faster than a fast mount, and it allows it to fly.
(My spec will not be good for raiding but it will do what I like it to do.)
If you look at it that way, shadow embrace is a bit of a boss talent too. It's 5 sec of casting time to apply a dispelable 10% to DoT damage. On the other hand you may put at least 1 pt there and 1 pt to imp shadowbolt so that your shadowbolts apply 2 magic debuffs for dispel flak. It also happens to stack twice and be an affliction effect which is pretty strong with contagion.
Anyway, as for 5-man rots, yes there's a problem that mobs die too fast for you to stack all your effects on them. As you can see above your dps builds up by stacking all of your effects and applying them takes a full 10-sec rot. For the first 10 sec your DPS will be low. This isn't a problem when focus firing a target that will last > 1 minute, but it doesn't work well with one that will last 15 sec (that means no aff warlocks for emalon!).
I think the only way to be decent DPS trough trash pulls is to AoE like a madman, requires calibrating with your tank's threat. A few resses don't really hurt much anyway, so long as you do your part and you're not wiping.
When I have to do focus fire my dps will always be below the others, in addition, it takes guessing how long a mob is going to last, if it's going to last over 30 sec you can do full rot. If it's going to last less than that you need to go prioritize based on casting time against expected duration...
your shadowbolt lasts 3 sec and does X damage. corr is 1.5 gcd. coa is 1.5 gcd. haunt is 1.5 casted. ua is 1.5 casted.
You compare how much time it takes for each of those to match half the damage of your shadowbolt and you remove them from your rot if you expect the targets to last less than that. You're most likely going to be doing corr-haunt-shadowbolt-Ldrain->Sdrain most of the short duration focus fire targets. I use Ldrain->Sdrain when a mob is too close to 25% but not yet there, if I spend 3 sec casting shadowbolt I may lose dps, instead I use Ldrain to do damage per tick while reaching 25% and switch to the other drain (interrupting Ldrain) when it hits 25%.
I'm often doing coa-corr-Ldrain->Sdrain but I have intensify curse so I contrast coa with 1/3 of the shadowbolt dmg instead of 1/2. The advantage of that rot is that I don't have casted spells in it so I don't need to guess accurately how short lived a mob is going to be. The other advantage is that with 3-sec shadowbolts your loss of DPS when you miss is horrible, if you miss a channeled spell you only lose 1 sec. But it is a very crappy rot for mobs that last much more than 10 sec.
Edit: rotations...
Edited, May 26th 2009 3:48pm by xorq
Edited, May 28th 2009 11:30am by xorq
The way I see it the rotation people are using does this (THE NUMBERS ARE SECONDS):
0
1
2
3 SB = 1 sb of damage + 5% of nothing.
4
4.5 Haunt = haunt + 25% of nothing.
5
6 UA = UA + 30% of UA
7 Corr = Corr + 30% of corr
8
8.5 CoA = Coa + 30% of coa
The way I think is more logical would be:
0. CoA = CoA ticks.
1
1.5. Corr = Corr ticks.
2
3
4.5 UA = UA
5
6 Haunt = Haunt + 25% of Corr + 25% of CoA + 25% of UA.
7
7.5 if nightfall procs = sb + 5% of UA + 5% Corr + 5% CoA + otherwise it will happen at second 9.
I think this way has stacked more damage by second 9 than the sb opening. It's visibly better unless there's something I'm not factoring in, and the funny part is that it's the exact opposite order to what people are using. But then I'm still not sure if CoA is better than CoE in a group environment where there is another caster.
Quote:
I'm spec'd into Soul Link because I find that it helps while leveling since I'm drain-tanking most of the time, which is also why I'm not ready to ditch Fel Concentration. I usually run with my Succubus for additional damage and Fel Synergy easily heals the damage she takes through Soul Link. While Bane is tempting, I'm not ready to wait another five levels for Soul Link now that I finally have it. I'm on a PvP server after all. Smiley: wink
Actually, the part of your spec that I'd criticize is that lack of imp fear imp howl and CoEx. While those do nothing for your dps, you play on a PvP server. :D
Imp fear is 5 sec snare and CoEx is 12. Diminishing returns reset if you dont fear/charm/blind for 15 sec. This allows you to kite for those 15 sec so that you can get 3 more fears. Also, I noticed no movement speed bonuses, those are useful.
I had the same glyphs as you but I ended up trading corruption for lifetap. I think they are about even but lifetap will just buff your spell power which is also good help for AoE spam.
Your minor glyph is useless. Glyph of unending breath is circumstantially useful in arathi basin. And if you're a fan of Eye of Kilrog then that one is great, it makes eye of kilrog faster than a fast mount, and it allows it to fly.
(My spec will not be good for raiding but it will do what I like it to do.)
Quote:
Death's Embrace is a boss talent, isn't it? Extra damage when the target is at 35% health? Only bosses live long enough at 35% health or lower for that talent to be really worth it. Most players my level have 10,000 health or so. At 35% health, they're down to 3,500 health which is a round of DoT ticks. 12% extra damage would hardly matter. Same goes for trash mobs. Once they drop to 35% health, it won't matter if my spells do 12% more damage.
If you look at it that way, shadow embrace is a bit of a boss talent too. It's 5 sec of casting time to apply a dispelable 10% to DoT damage. On the other hand you may put at least 1 pt there and 1 pt to imp shadowbolt so that your shadowbolts apply 2 magic debuffs for dispel flak. It also happens to stack twice and be an affliction effect which is pretty strong with contagion.
Anyway, as for 5-man rots, yes there's a problem that mobs die too fast for you to stack all your effects on them. As you can see above your dps builds up by stacking all of your effects and applying them takes a full 10-sec rot. For the first 10 sec your DPS will be low. This isn't a problem when focus firing a target that will last > 1 minute, but it doesn't work well with one that will last 15 sec (that means no aff warlocks for emalon!).
I think the only way to be decent DPS trough trash pulls is to AoE like a madman, requires calibrating with your tank's threat. A few resses don't really hurt much anyway, so long as you do your part and you're not wiping.
When I have to do focus fire my dps will always be below the others, in addition, it takes guessing how long a mob is going to last, if it's going to last over 30 sec you can do full rot. If it's going to last less than that you need to go prioritize based on casting time against expected duration...
your shadowbolt lasts 3 sec and does X damage. corr is 1.5 gcd. coa is 1.5 gcd. haunt is 1.5 casted. ua is 1.5 casted.
You compare how much time it takes for each of those to match half the damage of your shadowbolt and you remove them from your rot if you expect the targets to last less than that. You're most likely going to be doing corr-haunt-shadowbolt-Ldrain->Sdrain most of the short duration focus fire targets. I use Ldrain->Sdrain when a mob is too close to 25% but not yet there, if I spend 3 sec casting shadowbolt I may lose dps, instead I use Ldrain to do damage per tick while reaching 25% and switch to the other drain (interrupting Ldrain) when it hits 25%.
I'm often doing coa-corr-Ldrain->Sdrain but I have intensify curse so I contrast coa with 1/3 of the shadowbolt dmg instead of 1/2. The advantage of that rot is that I don't have casted spells in it so I don't need to guess accurately how short lived a mob is going to be. The other advantage is that with 3-sec shadowbolts your loss of DPS when you miss is horrible, if you miss a channeled spell you only lose 1 sec. But it is a very crappy rot for mobs that last much more than 10 sec.
Edit: rotations...
Edited, May 26th 2009 3:48pm by xorq
Edited, May 28th 2009 11:30am by xorq
Having just started running 5 mans with my warlock, I was pulling 1.1k on trash to 1.4k or so on main Bosses. I was using mostly and afflication spec and started off with curse, affliction, and then haunt. I would launch two shadowbolts and then start looknig to renew haunt and curse. Depending on adds, I would also through in a Seed of corruption or Rain of Fire.
Level 187-200 gear with a 13.5% crit chance. It stinks but I am still learning.
Problem I have is that the trash goes down to quickly to get al my dots through one good round.
Level 187-200 gear with a 13.5% crit chance. It stinks but I am still learning.
Problem I have is that the trash goes down to quickly to get al my dots through one good round.
xorq wrote:
I still don't see why affliction should open with shadowbolt, you're just taking 3 whole seconds of casting time to buff 5% to DoTs that are still not up. Either way the difference between applying the debuff at the start or the end of the rotation is very small, except if you chose to not apply it at the start you may get a nightfall proc and apply it for free halfway through your rotation.
I'll try to find the post on EJ but it has been proven time and time again, both in the math and experience, that getting 2 stacks of shadow embrace fist will increase your overall dps on a boss fight.
http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t37900-dots_you_affliction_warlock_thread/
Fragments of interest:
As many classes, we do not have a rotation anymore but rather a priority system. There is no fixed sequence because of different timers, some of them having random elements (like haste procs, Nightfall etc.). The general rule of thumb is: Highest DPCT first. No matter what your equip looks like, your DPCT list will always look like this:
1. Haunt
2. Corruption
3. Curse of Agony
4. Unstable Affliction
5. Drain Soul @ <25% HP
6. Shadow Bolt
From this list, you can derive the best way to dps: Cast Haunt when it's off CD, otherwise cast Corruption when it is not applied, then CoA when it is not applied, then UA, then the filler spells (Drain Soul/Shadow Bolt). Repeat this everytime you can cast a spell.
Haunt has the lowest DPCT, but casting haunt reapplies Corruption. So consider Haunt as "I'm reapplying Corruption and do some direct damage and apply / refresh two very important debuffs", making it the best DPCT spell.
When you begin a fight or completely change the target, you might want to cast a Shadow Bolt after the first Haunt to apply two stacks of Shadow Embrace immediately. In my opinion, casting Haunt is way more important (+25% damage in 1.5s) than this sole Shadow Bolt (+5% damage in 2.5s), so I personally stick to the list above.
This list is the beginning of solid DPS, not the end. There are many tricks and traps to it.
Other:
More...
Tricky part about it is we're just ordering things. DoTs do more damage the earlier you put them on. Direct damage from Haunt and Shadowbolt is the same to put them at the start or end. So we're just optmizing DoTs with DoT-improving debuffs.
Shadowbolt buff 5% to your current DoTs.
Haunt 25%.
Corr, CoA, UA are the DoTs. Corr > CoA > UA.
The reason I invert Corr and CoA is because I have Intensify Curse and because with CoA being long duration and crappy at the start I want to start it as early as I can in case it's being applied on something that will only last 30-sec or so. But I'll go with standard non-intensified DPCT...
1st cast 25% of nothing Vs. full Corr = Corr wins.
2nd cast 25% of Corr Vs full CoA damage = CoA wins.
3rd cast 25% of Corr+CoA Vs full UA = UA wins.
4th cast 25% of all 3 DoTs = now is when it pretty much matches a full DoT.
5th cast by now shadowbolt could be instant cast.
5% of all DoTs is never better than a DoTs unless you have 20 DoTs and you don't.
The only reason I would start with shadowbolt is if I get to start casting before the pull.
What's a definite, according to this, is that the SB - Haunt - UA - Corr- CoA opening is wrong because UA shouldn't go before Corr and CoA in PvE. The order for the DoTs is Corr-CoA-UA.
If it's PvP each situation calls for a different opening, and you might sometimes open with fear or death coil even. Sometimes I have to open with Deathcoil->Fear because some classes are just too aggressive and leave me no chance to respond if I don't open this way.
Edited, May 28th 2009 12:57pm by xorq
Fragments of interest:
Quote:
As many classes, we do not have a rotation anymore but rather a priority system. There is no fixed sequence because of different timers, some of them having random elements (like haste procs, Nightfall etc.). The general rule of thumb is: Highest DPCT first. No matter what your equip looks like, your DPCT list will always look like this:
1. Haunt
2. Corruption
3. Curse of Agony
4. Unstable Affliction
5. Drain Soul @ <25% HP
6. Shadow Bolt
From this list, you can derive the best way to dps: Cast Haunt when it's off CD, otherwise cast Corruption when it is not applied, then CoA when it is not applied, then UA, then the filler spells (Drain Soul/Shadow Bolt). Repeat this everytime you can cast a spell.
Haunt has the lowest DPCT, but casting haunt reapplies Corruption. So consider Haunt as "I'm reapplying Corruption and do some direct damage and apply / refresh two very important debuffs", making it the best DPCT spell.
When you begin a fight or completely change the target, you might want to cast a Shadow Bolt after the first Haunt to apply two stacks of Shadow Embrace immediately. In my opinion, casting Haunt is way more important (+25% damage in 1.5s) than this sole Shadow Bolt (+5% damage in 2.5s), so I personally stick to the list above.
This list is the beginning of solid DPS, not the end. There are many tricks and traps to it.
Other:
Quote:
What is the optimal start?
The opening sequence found most often ist Haunt->Shadow Bolt->Corruption->Unstable Affliction->Curse of Agony.
There is nothing wrong with it. Starting with Corruption makes no sense when you want to cast Haunt right afterwards, and casting Haunt later applies the debuffs too late, meaning you more or less have to start with Haunt. I am not convinced that casting the SB before the dots is better than afterwards, but nevermind. As a side note, of course you should start with the dots when you have to move into the fight, like Heigan in Naxxramas.
The opening sequence found most often ist Haunt->Shadow Bolt->Corruption->Unstable Affliction->Curse of Agony.
There is nothing wrong with it. Starting with Corruption makes no sense when you want to cast Haunt right afterwards, and casting Haunt later applies the debuffs too late, meaning you more or less have to start with Haunt. I am not convinced that casting the SB before the dots is better than afterwards, but nevermind. As a side note, of course you should start with the dots when you have to move into the fight, like Heigan in Naxxramas.
More...
Quote:
Unlike self buffs such as a trinket, DoTs will receive the benefit of any debuff added to a mob even if the debuff is added after the DoT was initially cast.
Tricky part about it is we're just ordering things. DoTs do more damage the earlier you put them on. Direct damage from Haunt and Shadowbolt is the same to put them at the start or end. So we're just optmizing DoTs with DoT-improving debuffs.
Shadowbolt buff 5% to your current DoTs.
Haunt 25%.
Corr, CoA, UA are the DoTs. Corr > CoA > UA.
The reason I invert Corr and CoA is because I have Intensify Curse and because with CoA being long duration and crappy at the start I want to start it as early as I can in case it's being applied on something that will only last 30-sec or so. But I'll go with standard non-intensified DPCT...
1st cast 25% of nothing Vs. full Corr = Corr wins.
2nd cast 25% of Corr Vs full CoA damage = CoA wins.
3rd cast 25% of Corr+CoA Vs full UA = UA wins.
4th cast 25% of all 3 DoTs = now is when it pretty much matches a full DoT.
5th cast by now shadowbolt could be instant cast.
5% of all DoTs is never better than a DoTs unless you have 20 DoTs and you don't.
The only reason I would start with shadowbolt is if I get to start casting before the pull.
What's a definite, according to this, is that the SB - Haunt - UA - Corr- CoA opening is wrong because UA shouldn't go before Corr and CoA in PvE. The order for the DoTs is Corr-CoA-UA.
If it's PvP each situation calls for a different opening, and you might sometimes open with fear or death coil even. Sometimes I have to open with Deathcoil->Fear because some classes are just too aggressive and leave me no chance to respond if I don't open this way.
Edited, May 28th 2009 12:57pm by xorq
xorq wrote:
http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t37900-dots_you_affliction_warlock_thread/
etc...
etc...
Well i can't find the post i was looking for so I can't dispute what you are saying. Though what you say does make sense. I'll give the new rotation a whirl and see how it works out. Though, in an extended fight I can't see it making that much of a difference once the DoTs are up and you get settled into your rotation.
Though if I find the post we shall return to this discussion lol
snieh wrote:
I have a warlock of my own and what I normally do on AoE pulls is put a couple SoCs and then hellfire. But this isnt about my rotation. I was healing CoS on my paladin and I had a warlock in the group. Every AoE pull he would use hellfire and when it ran out he would use it again until the mobs were dead. So I was basically spamming my heals on this guy to keep him up and it was an incredible mana drain. I felt this was idiotic so I told him flat out to stop using it or I was going to let him die. To which he replied "Thats a first."
That comment alone made me wonder if I was wrong about it. Is that normal rotation for a lock to spam that spell? Seems to be an unnecessary pain on the healer. Especially since we're already dealing with lifetap. So my question is, is that spell the best possible DPS for a warlock on AoE pulls?
That comment alone made me wonder if I was wrong about it. Is that normal rotation for a lock to spam that spell? Seems to be an unnecessary pain on the healer. Especially since we're already dealing with lifetap. So my question is, is that spell the best possible DPS for a warlock on AoE pulls?
Well, it took a while for me to figure this one out.
I got dual spec on my pally and healed on a few chances. It's been like 2 weeks since I got dual spec but then it's DUAL spec not respec, and healing is only secondary, so I haven't used it much. Thing is I have been relearning how to heal with the pally. Here's what happens.
NOTE: Do not take my post as a pally healing guide because I'm still learning how to heal.
Paladins spells are mostly single target except that they can be 2-target with Beacon.
If you put Beacon on the tank it will heal the tank for the amount healed to nearby targets. This means it will only heal the tank if you heal a WOUNDED target. If you throw a heal on a target that is at full HP it will not heal the tank.
Warlocks with Demon Armor will buff healing spells on them by 20%. So when you heal the warlock the "amount healed" from your spell will be 20% larger if you did not overheal.
This means that with beacon tank + demon armor + healing the warlock = heals on the tank will heal 20% extra for very little extra cost.
There's limitations to this because the warlock HP has to stay low at all times for this to work, if you overheal the warlock you'll not benefit from this. To benefit the most the warlock will have to be constantly lifetapping or hellfireing and you heal him when his HP is low enough to "pipe" your FULL stream of healing trough him.
So this way you can effectively heal more and heal cheaper with near zero extra effort and gives abundant hellfire for DPS.
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