I have 518 resilience, which I'm told is a pretty fair amount. That gives me a 6.32% less chance to be crit, and if I am crit, it will be reduced by 14%. Sounds good right?
That means I will resist roughly 1 out of every 16 crit attempts and the other 15 crits will do 14% less damage. So lets say the other 15 crits do 3000, or 8000 damage. Then I'll be hit for 2580 or 6880 each. Doesn't sound like that big of an improvement.
I know the math sometimes gets involved with this game. Am I missing something?
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Does resilience really do much good?Follow
No you're getting all the formulas wrong.
You want avoidance, so you want defense.
Your resilience already makes you almost uncritable in PvE, but that's besides the point. Resil is good when you're getting started and your def is still too low to take crits out of the table. So you mix-and-match with resil gear to get out of the crits that that will do pretty well for heroics and even work for 10-mans.
However you should get your avoidance up. For this you will require a lot of defense parry and doge ratings, and the defense rating will take care of the crits, making resil unnecessary.
In theorycrafting you could just use resil dodge and parry instead of defense. But it will cost you a much much greater amount of rating points to reach the same numbers that you would reach if you just go with defense instead.
You want avoidance, so you want defense.
Your resilience already makes you almost uncritable in PvE, but that's besides the point. Resil is good when you're getting started and your def is still too low to take crits out of the table. So you mix-and-match with resil gear to get out of the crits that that will do pretty well for heroics and even work for 10-mans.
However you should get your avoidance up. For this you will require a lot of defense parry and doge ratings, and the defense rating will take care of the crits, making resil unnecessary.
In theorycrafting you could just use resil dodge and parry instead of defense. But it will cost you a much much greater amount of rating points to reach the same numbers that you would reach if you just go with defense instead.
You're not missing anything. Resilience IS pretty weak given the insane crit chance of some classes, the 100% crit damage bonus of others, and finally simply the non-crit damage at sometimes ridiculous amounts.
But this game is based on the presumption that "every little bit helps". People are getting their kicks out of food buffs and enchants that increase some stat by a fractional percentage. From that point of view, 518 resilience and it's reduction is great...
Peace of mind. That's what resilience means to me. I did - something - to improve my survivability, even though I know that it's very little and rather insignificant.
But this game is based on the presumption that "every little bit helps". People are getting their kicks out of food buffs and enchants that increase some stat by a fractional percentage. From that point of view, 518 resilience and it's reduction is great...
Peace of mind. That's what resilience means to me. I did - something - to improve my survivability, even though I know that it's very little and rather insignificant.
Stamina is more effective with resilience. I tend to think of it in tanking terms, it increases my effective health and time to live in pvp.
Don't over compensate with any one stat, if your sacrificing stamina or dps your only hurting yourself. You need to be able to kill and not be killed.
Don't over compensate with any one stat, if your sacrificing stamina or dps your only hurting yourself. You need to be able to kill and not be killed.
20 posts
Hey Devious... Well at least your not "bitter or cynical" like your last reply to me. Actually I didn't think you were either. It just seems to me like resilience isn't that much good. What I didn't spell out earlier that gearing up for resil, is at the cost of something else. To get my 500+ resil, I lose about 1k of health, 100 hit, and even some attack power. Just doesnt seem to add up. I'm such a pitifull excuse for a pvp player, that it's hard to see any comparative results. I'll try a battleground again. I used to die every 30 seconds. Lets see if I can stretch that a bit with more resil.
By the way, thanks for your post about 2h vrs. 1 hand. I tried arms and a 2h again this time forgetting about berserker and staying normal. That gave me overpower back. Between that and mortal strike, my average dps went from well under 1k to just about 2k. Now in instances, I usually end up with the highest, or maybe 2nd, dps average. What's strange is I've tried re-talenting many times and never got a good mortal strike. This last time my mortals went from 1k to 3k or more damage. Almost as if there was a bug in my character and re-speccing one more time removed it.
Well catch ya all later, thanks for the help.
By the way, thanks for your post about 2h vrs. 1 hand. I tried arms and a 2h again this time forgetting about berserker and staying normal. That gave me overpower back. Between that and mortal strike, my average dps went from well under 1k to just about 2k. Now in instances, I usually end up with the highest, or maybe 2nd, dps average. What's strange is I've tried re-talenting many times and never got a good mortal strike. This last time my mortals went from 1k to 3k or more damage. Almost as if there was a bug in my character and re-speccing one more time removed it.
Well catch ya all later, thanks for the help.
Ah that, for a moment there you doing your math as if you were talking about tanking made me think you were talking about tanking.
Well resil is somewhat about tanking anyway. It makes damage more controlable and more healable.
While those numbers may seem to not mean much at first sight they do. Most people go into PvP with specs that have pretty good bonuses to their crits. So this reduction to their crits has a greater effect than what it would seem from the numbers.
And Resil also reduces DoT damage. Which warriors in particular are unable to remove by themselves. In a bg you'd be very lucky to have someone on your team that actually does cleanses, so this is very helpful.
Of course, as some have said, resil is only good with a lot of stamina. There's no point in increasing your resistance to crits and dots if you really don't last much when being hit by non crits.
Well resil is somewhat about tanking anyway. It makes damage more controlable and more healable.
While those numbers may seem to not mean much at first sight they do. Most people go into PvP with specs that have pretty good bonuses to their crits. So this reduction to their crits has a greater effect than what it would seem from the numbers.
And Resil also reduces DoT damage. Which warriors in particular are unable to remove by themselves. In a bg you'd be very lucky to have someone on your team that actually does cleanses, so this is very helpful.
Of course, as some have said, resil is only good with a lot of stamina. There's no point in increasing your resistance to crits and dots if you really don't last much when being hit by non crits.
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It just seems to me like resilience isn't that much good. What I didn't spell out earlier that gearing up for resil, is at the cost of something else. To get my 500+ resil, I lose about 1k of health, 100 hit, and even some attack power.
Resilience really shines when you have a healer to capitalize on it. Especially if the other team is trying to focus you, the extra 0.8 seconds Resilience buys you may be all it takes for a good healer to keep you up, and having an additional player up can be the difference in a lot of PVP situations.
That being said, it's a decision like everything else how much you want to focus on resilience. But don't write it off as useless just because you're not playing in a situation where it matters.
Resilience is the single most important stat in PvP. Everytime I gear up a toon for end-game PvP there is this magic moment when I suddenly become competitive because I am no longer 3-shotted. With my warrior it was around 500-600 resil; I think resil is extra-important for us because, unless you pvp as prot, we have no way to avoid being hit or to heal ourselves.
Think of it this way -- you have a 6.32% lower chance to be critted. Can you imagine how much +hit and +spellpower an arcane mage would sacrifice to boost his/her crit by 6.32%? How much would you as a dps warrior give up to raise your crit by 6.32%?
I do agree with everyone that it works best in conjunction w stamina. But most resilience gear has pretty high stamina.
Think of it this way -- you have a 6.32% lower chance to be critted. Can you imagine how much +hit and +spellpower an arcane mage would sacrifice to boost his/her crit by 6.32%? How much would you as a dps warrior give up to raise your crit by 6.32%?
I do agree with everyone that it works best in conjunction w stamina. But most resilience gear has pretty high stamina.
I don't know how resilience is at level 80 nowadays, but I remember level 70 and PvP back then.
Nothing like going up against a Warlock with massive resilience. It was like trying to tear down a brick wall with your fingernails. You'd hit and hit and hit, but never crit. Made you realize how much you rely on crits to do respectable damage.
Nothing like going up against a Warlock with massive resilience. It was like trying to tear down a brick wall with your fingernails. You'd hit and hit and hit, but never crit. Made you realize how much you rely on crits to do respectable damage.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
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How much would you as a dps warrior give up to raise your crit by 6.32%?
Well, consider it another way, talents spent on DPS. That 6.32% cancels 5 talent points in cruelty. If you are poleaxe spec that's 6 talent points spent just to even your crit chance out. Even then, we're going from a X+10% crit to X+3.68%, which is weak for 10 talent points. Other classes have it easier with skill specific crit bonuses that are superior to overall crit bonuses (blood dk's for example).
Sadly, crit is a major component to warrior dps. Deep wounds, impale, trauma (deep wounds), blood frenzy, wrecking crew, etc...
Makes me think a fury warrior may actually do better in PvP. More steady consistent long term damage, in long duration fights. Heroic fury is a very nice addition to pvp.
Crit is the only real way warriors can spike dps in a focus fire condition. Too many GCD's to do real spike dps, too easily peeled/cc'd/etc... to be reliable.
(this is why i'm playing my DK now, and ignoring my warrior)
See my other thread as to the current uselessness of warriors in PvP. The are by far the weakest PvP class nowadays. But Arms > Fury. You don't want consistent damage in PvP, you want burst, and that's Arms. Plus, charge in combat > heroic fury.
Though with the recent arms nerf, prot may be the only viable PvP spec, and then only in BGs.
Though with the recent arms nerf, prot may be the only viable PvP spec, and then only in BGs.
I don't PvP much, but doesn't resilience also decrease damage taken from dots?
that's a pretty big one if that is still the case.
that's a pretty big one if that is still the case.
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