I know this isn't a great topic, but I think I need some help...
Here is my gear: Link
I'm currently at a steady ~2.6k dps (w/IF, PW:F and Divine Spirit) on the Heroic target dummy after I've 'setup' my target (applying inital DoTs and VE).
My question is, is my DPS low for that kind of gear? I'm running 25 naxx for gear and with raid buffs I certainly pull my own weight (it's a plus that I don't die on most encounters), but when I hear about other DPS numbers and 2.5k being 'low', and 4k dps being expected for ulduar, I'm wondering how I'm supposed to get my DPS up to that point.
Am I wrong for using a Dummy to measure my DPS (I typically call it my 'base DPS')? Should I start using Patchwork or some other general raid boss as a baseline for my DPS? I've already recently re-ordered my gems after looking over things at elitistjerks.com and the gear/gem guide at shadowpriest.com. The only thing that changed is that I put in some dragon's eye gems to replace a couple of forest emeralds gems (they were in there to activate my Meta).
I'm just feeling like I'm hitting a ceiling that's no where near where the floor for some content is. I PuG most raids (though my guild is trying to setup some 10 naxx raids) and I don' expect to PuG Ulduar (beyond FL and some of the other early bosses), but it's discouraging when people want 4k DPS and I'm putting out 2.6k...
Any advice? Or if I keep filling out with Naxx 25 gear, should it steadily increase?
Edit: Forgot to say how I do my rotation >.<
to start: VT>MB>MF(for shadoweaving stacks)>DP>SW:P>MB
Then for cool-downs, I prioritize:
DP
SW:P
VT(usually to refresh just for MB is off CD)
MB
SW:D
MF
Edited, May 12th 2009 12:54pm by BakaShinobi
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In your gear, I'm thinking a 'pro' could pull off 2800 or 2900.
The thing is, with all due respect to great players like Theo and Bodhi, the people around here are fairly elitist, claiming stuff that's actually far beyond the actual requirement for a specific field of play. We are currently running Ulduar 10, and while our top (3) DPS are hitting 4K, the bulk of our raiders are between 2.6K and 3K. In our guild, which has downed all of Ulduar 10 except Vezax and Yogg-saron (we got Vezax to 5%), 2600 DPS would be worth about a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10.
If I were you, I really wouldn't worry too much - don't try to live up to the insane requirements the long-time posters here see as 'normal', that will only get you depressed. Seeing as you're still wearing heroic items 2600 DPS is definitely good enough. No matter how bad some people might like to see it, 4000 DPS isn't "expected" for Ulduar. Ulduar 25 hard mode perhaps.
You might want to read up on Elitistjerks or shadowpriest.com to see if you can maximize your rotation or spec. I suspect doing so might get you to 2.8/2.9K unbuffed, but you really shouldn't be unhappy with 2600. Also, trash dummies are in most cases good enough for DPS testing. Using Patchwork over a trash dummy is pointless, as they're effectively the same to a DPS.
Long story short; always strife for improvement, but don't worry - 2600 unbuffed right now is fine.
The thing is, with all due respect to great players like Theo and Bodhi, the people around here are fairly elitist, claiming stuff that's actually far beyond the actual requirement for a specific field of play. We are currently running Ulduar 10, and while our top (3) DPS are hitting 4K, the bulk of our raiders are between 2.6K and 3K. In our guild, which has downed all of Ulduar 10 except Vezax and Yogg-saron (we got Vezax to 5%), 2600 DPS would be worth about a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10.
If I were you, I really wouldn't worry too much - don't try to live up to the insane requirements the long-time posters here see as 'normal', that will only get you depressed. Seeing as you're still wearing heroic items 2600 DPS is definitely good enough. No matter how bad some people might like to see it, 4000 DPS isn't "expected" for Ulduar. Ulduar 25 hard mode perhaps.
You might want to read up on Elitistjerks or shadowpriest.com to see if you can maximize your rotation or spec. I suspect doing so might get you to 2.8/2.9K unbuffed, but you really shouldn't be unhappy with 2600. Also, trash dummies are in most cases good enough for DPS testing. Using Patchwork over a trash dummy is pointless, as they're effectively the same to a DPS.
Long story short; always strife for improvement, but don't worry - 2600 unbuffed right now is fine.
Ok, here's my 2 cents. I'm in no way elitist, and as far as I can tell, for your gear, your dps is acceptable. However, you could bump it up a notch by doing a couple of things.
Firstly, your priorities should be
VT(usually to refresh just for MB is off CD)
DP
MB
MF
SW:P
SW:D
SW:D is strictly a space filler these days, depending on when you use it it can actually lower your dps. Most players don't even use it at the moment due to its poor damage return.
Just to so you can tell how the damage scales with the gear you have, in my current gear I'm pulling about 3900 on the dummies. The set bonus contributes to a lot of it admittedly, but the rest of it comes from the crit sp and haste difference.
In short you really don't have much to worry about, but I'd encourage you to try dropping swd for a while and see how it works out for you
Firstly, your priorities should be
VT(usually to refresh just for MB is off CD)
DP
MB
MF
SW:P
SW:D
SW:D is strictly a space filler these days, depending on when you use it it can actually lower your dps. Most players don't even use it at the moment due to its poor damage return.
Just to so you can tell how the damage scales with the gear you have, in my current gear I'm pulling about 3900 on the dummies. The set bonus contributes to a lot of it admittedly, but the rest of it comes from the crit sp and haste difference.
In short you really don't have much to worry about, but I'd encourage you to try dropping swd for a while and see how it works out for you
Thanks for the input so far.
I've started using SW:D less and making it a 'low priority' spell. Should I still use it over MF or just use it if I only ave about 1 second left on cool-down for other spells?
Thanks again for the comments.
I've started using SW:D less and making it a 'low priority' spell. Should I still use it over MF or just use it if I only ave about 1 second left on cool-down for other spells?
Thanks again for the comments.
Quote:
or just use it if I only ave about 1 second left on cool-down for other spells?
Precisely this
Edited, May 12th 2009 3:09pm by thegreatmothra
You're doing around the same group DPS that I am doing, with a couple of the same pieces but mostly better. So, I would have to say your DPS is low for the gear you have.
Part of what you are experiencing could be cast rotation, and not gear at all. I notice that there is a huge gap in your rotation where you are just re-applying instant cast spells that are generally low DPS on their own. That gap could be where you are losing your DPS. I'll try to suggest something different, if you want to comment.
Start with Vampiric Embrace, then Shadow Word Pain (Pain could come before that; I dont see any difference). Mind Blast, then apply Devouring Plague and Mind Flay during Mind Blast's cool-down. Mind Blast again, then re-apply VT and MF again until Mind Blast returns. I time all my attacks based on the duration of VT and Mind Blast's cool-down, so you have about once per MB to apply any instant-cast spell including your shield, and still sustain DPS. You only have time to Mind Flay once if you use any other spell during those 11 seconds.
If it's a short fight, I would skip Devouring Plague or Death, since Mind Flay critical hits a lot and you dont want to lose that time just for re-applying a DOT. I notice that I can easily be out DPS if I dont quickly build Shadow Weaving during those fights, so MF does that faster and sustains DPS.
If it's a large group, I like to cast Vampiric Embrace or Devouring Plague on my target (that is not going to be attacked by much else other than the tank), then use Mind Sear instead of Mind Flay. After two or three times, it's usually safe to Mind Blast when it's ready.
In my build, I went for Unbreakable Will and Improved Shield, instead of Shadow Power. I only have slightly more spell damage than you do, and way less critical hit (we have about the same haste). Since you are better geared, this comparison suggests to me that it is your rotation that could be the main problem, because you are speced to do more damage from more sources than I am.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Antonidas&n=Foulmud
Edited, May 12th 2009 9:51pm by sederix
Part of what you are experiencing could be cast rotation, and not gear at all. I notice that there is a huge gap in your rotation where you are just re-applying instant cast spells that are generally low DPS on their own. That gap could be where you are losing your DPS. I'll try to suggest something different, if you want to comment.
Start with Vampiric Embrace, then Shadow Word Pain (Pain could come before that; I dont see any difference). Mind Blast, then apply Devouring Plague and Mind Flay during Mind Blast's cool-down. Mind Blast again, then re-apply VT and MF again until Mind Blast returns. I time all my attacks based on the duration of VT and Mind Blast's cool-down, so you have about once per MB to apply any instant-cast spell including your shield, and still sustain DPS. You only have time to Mind Flay once if you use any other spell during those 11 seconds.
If it's a short fight, I would skip Devouring Plague or Death, since Mind Flay critical hits a lot and you dont want to lose that time just for re-applying a DOT. I notice that I can easily be out DPS if I dont quickly build Shadow Weaving during those fights, so MF does that faster and sustains DPS.
If it's a large group, I like to cast Vampiric Embrace or Devouring Plague on my target (that is not going to be attacked by much else other than the tank), then use Mind Sear instead of Mind Flay. After two or three times, it's usually safe to Mind Blast when it's ready.
In my build, I went for Unbreakable Will and Improved Shield, instead of Shadow Power. I only have slightly more spell damage than you do, and way less critical hit (we have about the same haste). Since you are better geared, this comparison suggests to me that it is your rotation that could be the main problem, because you are speced to do more damage from more sources than I am.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Antonidas&n=Foulmud
Edited, May 12th 2009 9:51pm by sederix
Scholar
38 posts
Quote:
Start with Vampiric Embrace, then Shadow Word Pain (Pain could come before that; I dont see any difference)
Just a quick note, if you do this. Be sure to reapply SW:P when you have 5 stacks of shadow weaving up. Else you're missing a lot of DPS on your 100% uptime DoT.
Quote:
Just a quick note, if you do this. Be sure to reapply SW:P when you have 5 stacks of shadow weaving up. Else you're missing a lot of DPS on your 100% uptime DoT.
Not really, because it's refreshed every 3 seconds or less.
I've tried several chagnes to my style (keeping SW:D use to only ~1 second filler) and I haven't noticed much change, though I was hitting some bad lag, so I'll probably check that out again.
Last night I was in a joint guild Naxx 25 run and I was pulling over 3k DPS (to single targets) with raid buffs on and was normally high on the damage meter (top 10). And this was a group were many people didn't need much gear and only a few people needed major upgrades.
I'm probably going to just keep running Naxx 25 and check out my single target DPS some time later, after a few more Naxx 25 runs.
Thanks for all of the advice and help so far.
Last night I was in a joint guild Naxx 25 run and I was pulling over 3k DPS (to single targets) with raid buffs on and was normally high on the damage meter (top 10). And this was a group were many people didn't need much gear and only a few people needed major upgrades.
I'm probably going to just keep running Naxx 25 and check out my single target DPS some time later, after a few more Naxx 25 runs.
Thanks for all of the advice and help so far.
Quote:
Quote:
Not really, because it's refreshed every 3 seconds or less.
Quote:
Just a quick note, if you do this. Be sure to reapply SW:P when you have 5 stacks of shadow weaving up. Else you're missing a lot of DPS on your 100% uptime DoT.
Not really, because it's refreshed every 3 seconds or less.
Nope, you have to apply it after the 5 stacks of shadow weaving or it will not receive the bonus of the later sacks. When shadow word pain refreshes it ONLY takes into account variances in your crit and spellpower. %age damage increases like shadow weaving are only calculated on the initial casted application. This is why you refresh your shadow word pain on (for example) a boss like thaddius once you have the encounter specific aura.
Edited, May 14th 2009 1:22pm by thegreatmothra
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