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#1 May 08 2009 at 7:01 AM Rating: Default
Ok so yesterday the first thing I did when I got home was to get on my lock (71) and run a reg UK to test out my UI and spec (destro). I was very pleased as I pulled 1100 dps and 31% of the total damage (beating a fresh 80 dk dps in the process) and replaced my first bc epic with the blue dagger off first boss. After this I healed H UK on my druid with a very good group save one person who got beat by the tank in dps. The ele shaman pulled about 2600 dps and the ret pally was doing well over 3k. However, the lock (demo specced) was only pulling 1000 on bosses...less than my lock of 9 levels lower was doing. Now I understand that my lock is fully epicced in t4/t5 with enchants and that this lock was a fresh 80 in mostly blues/crafted epics with no enchants. I also understand that destro is good in pve and demo is not the best choice for pve except with a very skilled player and good spec. However, we are talking about a 9 level difference! Any 80 should be able to pull at least 1.5k dps regardless of gear.

My point is, it seems that right now all locks are either really good or really bad. For example, I have seen two really good locks lately. One guy in my guild named Echoclaw does not have the best gear but he knows how to play and is always top 2 or 3 in dps no matter what we are raiding. Another lock on my server named Jasonn just recently got the Gladiator title last arena season. Yea that's right, a lock got the gladiator title. He is always dueling outside of Org and I have yet to see him lose. He is simply amazing. But then there are the bad locks...no idea of a rotation, never putting up soulstones, don't carry enough shards, have imp attack during boss fights and get killed in 5 seconds, don't give out healthstones, never use fire/spellstones, etc. I guess this is a QQ post, but whatever rate me down if it makes you feel better, I don't really care.
#2 May 08 2009 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
Bigbrownbear wrote:
rate me down if it makes you feel better, I don't really care.

OK, but only because I couldn't understand why you posted, other than to say "IM GRATE! EVRI1 ELSE SUCKS!"
#3 May 08 2009 at 10:45 AM Rating: Default
No, if you read my post at all you would notice that I did not say anything close to that. I was just saying that for most other classes you can be bad but still do fairly well with decent gear. Warlocks are completely different. I have to say that this is my best class in PvE. My best PvP class is easily druid as feral or resto. I am actually quite bad at PvP with a lock and rarely win 1v1. Did you not read the part where I pointed out 2 of the many very good warlocks I know (of)? Never did I say that "IM GRATE! EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS!" I actually said quite the contrary. 1.2k dps is probably much lower than what I should be pulling given my gear level, considering locks in my same gear pulled nearly 2k during BC. All that I was saying is that there seems to be fewer people in the middle with locks. Everyone I see is either really bad or really good.

I was kind of enjoying reading your posts before now, but now I can see why you have nearly 10k posts and still have a decent rating. I'm sorry that I am the last one to hop on the "ohmikeghod is a jackass" train.
#4 May 08 2009 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
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423 posts
Well as I see it,there are slackers regardless of class.
I've seen quite few locks with very good gear,then i see most of their gear is crit gemmed and they have some stupid talent points.
But it's the same with any other class.

Maybe that particular lock was poorly specced,used bad rotation or something similar,or simply was doing something else while doing instance.
Try to give them an advice or direct them to a web site,some will be very thankful and will cherish that others will tell you
to gtfo and stfu etc etc,but at least you tried =)

Good players will always get the best out of the class,as you said for your lock buddies.
#5 May 08 2009 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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357 posts
I've noticed this as well since WotLK came out. One problem was in BC you could spam shadowbolts and do stupid amounts of damage so many locks forgot how to play. Going from a year of basically hitting the same button over and over again to 3.0's affliction spec, so drastically different it's insane.

However, I think the main reason is that many warlocks don't understand the specs they are using. Why if haunt or shadow's embrace falls of the target you fail, why they see other locks draining soul for so much of a boss fight, why this glyph is better than the other, why this good looking talent is crap and this so-so looking talent is a beast. Many just see a bunch of spells and go with the tried and true never let a dot fall off method instead of the priority system that is in place now.

But in the end it comes down to those that want to learn and understand why and how the different specs work and actually use that knowledge in the game will be the good locks, those that don't will be the sub-par locks, and those that master it will be the locks everybody is being compared to as being normal. I only wish I could master it like some of the very few locks I've seen that have, it's a thing of beauty.
#6 May 09 2009 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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660 posts
Bigbrownbear wrote:
have imp attack during boss fights and get killed in 5 seconds.


And the problem with an imp attacking during a boss fight is......?

In most boss fights it will outlast the succubus who is very squishy and will usually go down from minor splash damage. Granted you could use a Doomguard for EVERY boss fight, but that just doesn't happen since it has a 1/2 hr cooldown. The infernal is situational and is normally only used toward the end of a boss fight anyway.

Felhunter? Almost never used during a boss fight. Situational at best.

And the go to pet for a Demo lock is the Felguard. But I am not counting this since you are Destro.

So do tell....which pet would you be using?
#7 May 09 2009 at 5:04 PM Rating: Default
I think you misunderstood me. If your imp is out in a raid, it should be on passive. If it is on passive, it is not attacking, and it is phase shifted (and therefore not dying so that your raid maintains blood pact). With the demonic synergy talent (or w/e it's called), you can keep just about any pet up though I can't really see why you would use anything other than your imp unless demo specced. Anyways sorry for the misunderstanding...I probably should have been more clear but I really did mean having the imp actually attacking the boss rather than just sitting at your side phased like it should be.
#8 May 09 2009 at 5:37 PM Rating: Default
Imp's blood pact is over written with a warrior's stam boost ability, so an imp out in a raid/instance/group with a warrior is pretty useless. I'd probably use fel hunter on passive (if you don't want it to attack, obviously), for more resists, if a warrior is in the group. That's if you're not demo spec, of course.
#9 May 09 2009 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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266 posts
Destro is heavily buffed by the imp, if you actually read the talents you'll see that the imps attacks actually buff you for a decent amount. And fyi, WotLK was scaled down, the patch in BC that nerfed every boss in BT and Sunwell was actually blizzard adjusting the game mechanics so that when they released WotLK it was tuned to the average pug. WotLK Beta was easier then the content that hit Live, which is why we saw the nerfs to such bosses as ignis and Xt-002 because they did not turn out the way blizzard had wanted, the entire expansion has been based around a PuG being able to step into a raid and kill bosses without hitting a wipefest wall at the first boss.
#10 May 10 2009 at 3:43 AM Rating: Good
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660 posts
Bigbrownbear wrote:
I think you misunderstood me. If your imp is out in a raid, it should be on passive.


Still have to disagree there. There is no need for a caster minion to be on passive. Defensive, yes. Aggressive, never.

Quote:
If it is on passive, it is not attacking, and it is phase shifted (and therefore not dying so that your raid maintains blood pact).


And doing 0 DPS at that.. making it rather useless, especially if the buff gets overwritten by a warrior shout. There is a reason that points are spent on the Demonic Power talent. The imp may not have crazy DPS but a little more is a little more. If your pet is what is getting you killed, you're doing something wrong.


Quote:
I can't really see why you would use anything other than your imp unless demo specced.


Imp provides a little under 200dps in most cases. The succubus is pushing 230-240. The Fel Hunter is **** poor and not worth mentioning.

The imp is at range so the survivability is much higher than the squishy succubus. Though if the boss doesn't AoE, multi-target or do splash damage, the succubus is a good choice for added DPS. Replace either one with the Infernal toward the end of the fight for extra DPS.

I use a Doomguard at every boss encounter I can (assuming the cooldown is up), survivability is high and so is the DPS.

A passive pet does 0 DPS......



Edited, May 10th 2009 8:37am by Aniclator
#11 May 10 2009 at 4:17 AM Rating: Good
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357 posts
The pet you should use depends on your spec. Demon should obviously use felguard, destro should use the imp due to the talents in the destruction tree boost the imps damage and give you a boost, and affliction should use the doomguard whenever possible, when on cool-down use the imp/succubus depending on the fight/group make-up. All specs should throw down an infernal to boost damage for a minute.

Keeping your imp on passive is a bad idea for almost every fight however. While the imp doesn't do incredible damage, it does do damage. To say it's not important would be the same thing as saying enchants or gems aren't important, it's only +5 damage for a blue gem compared to a green, but it all adds up.

The difference is in BC, aside from demonology and even then it was usually fire and forget, pets were pointless. The best raiding spec made you sacrifice your minion and affliction wanted the imp on passive so he could be the mana battery. However now the Dark Pact talent is a waste because life-tap/haunt gives you more mana per global cooldown and the imp is an integral part to destruction. In WotLK people forgot how to keep them alive.

Even though they have an aoe reduction you still want to pull your pet away from the boss in many cases. Due to the imp being stationary if someone standing by him gets a void zone you need to move your imp out of it or he'll die. You almost always want your pet attacking you just got to remember to take care of him now compared to BC when many Warlocks never worried about their minions at all.
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