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Arms PvE questionsFollow

#1 May 04 2009 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
Helo ....dual spec has made tanks getting to the DPS world so here it goes

Only for PvE:


Glyph of overpower:
Is this Glyph good in PvE? From what I see there is an 100% chance when a parry occurs for overpower to flash which can not be blocked, parried ,dodged....so..is that..ehm..good or bad glyph to have?
If this glyph is good then is it ok to set expertise to 0 to increase my parry chances??(lol)

Weapon mastery:
I m a bit confused... if I take the talent I get less dodges meaning less overpowers....so..ehmm..does one take the talent or not considering tha overpower needs the mob to dodge?

General question about overpower:

Is a talent that we need to flash all the time?? Why am i trying to reach the hit rating and the exp rating caps if by reaching those practically means that I m getting less overpowers? Also I see the talent of Weapon mastery to be contradictory of the overpower talent...am I getting this the wrong way???


Gear: Engineer vs BS
The BS mace and Helmet are great boosts to hit rating, expertsise caps that all guides support. I dont understand why the Engineer goggles only have crit rating while the tanking one have at least a vast amount of expertise? Is this a bug? I mean an Engineer has the skill to create expertise stat on tank and not DPS gear?? Its a bit aquard...? Why should any one bother create DPS goggles as an early DPS???

Gear Weapon:
I have currently the Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver an axe oflvl 200 with axe speciallisation: http://eu.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=37852 but I see many players going for mace speciallication ...is mace speciallication better?

Arms Rotation:

From what I hear there isnt one clear rotation...is that correct? Everytime something pops you just click it , correct??If there is a rotation can someone help in that?

From my understaing Tanking and being arms are kind of similar....meaning that as I tank we usually charge and shockwave ,now as a DPS i charge and Mortal strike ,correct? Then when I blocked something I expected revenge to occur ...now as a DPS I m waiting on overpower or execute if I get a dodge correct ? My Tank-Devastate button is now my mortal strike/Slam in the sense that when y have rage y instantly (almost) get them activated. Is the above correct?

Heroic Strike
Is Heroic strike used at all? I see numerous posts of talents examples that dont use the 3/3 talent on less rage cost...why is that?

Rend:
We use rend in the begging of the fight and keep refreshing it, correct?

Anger managment:
Also I see many talent posts without this... why?

Change stances:
An arms warrior needs to change stances? In which cases?

DPS:
How much DPS does a noob warrior makes on single targets with only blue lvl 80 items but with correct rotation/talents on a hc instance boss? Any general tips for best DPS on a new geared toon?


Hope I didnt tire you guys. Feel free to post any tips

#2 May 04 2009 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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387 posts
I'd advise against the glyph of overpower. Also, I will pretend I never read that 0 Expertise suggestion. You MAIN source for overpower is the talent "taste for blood", which pratically guarantees you an overpower every 6s as long as rend is up (this should be 100% of the time anyways)

About weapon specialisation: Specialise in the best weapon you got. Yes, that means respeccing when you get an upgrade (like, respeccing to maces when you decide to get the titansteel lollipop)
#3 May 04 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
This should answer most of your questions, its from the quick and dirty arms guide on tankspot.com
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f177/48619-quick-n-dirty-arms-guide.html

Quote:
Quick and dirty Arms guide
For patch 3.1

This guide is meant to be a basic introduction to Arms DPS. My experience with the spec is from my own theorycrafting, the ongoing discussion over at EJ, and of course, actually mucking around with the spec as much as possible on the PTR. If people find this useful, I'll try to update it with new developments, hints, etc. that come from playing it on live. Hopefully it'll help answer a few questions as people try DPSing without Fury in 3.1

First, some benefits an Arms warrior brings to a raid:
Trauma - 30% more bleed damage (Does not stack with a Druid's Mangle)
Blood Frenzy - 4% more melee damage (Does not stack with a Combat Rogue's Savage Combat)

How does it compare to Fury?
From what I've seen, it's about the same, actually. A Fury warrior scales better with rage than an Arms warrior, and in a raid setting this ends up bringing the two to roughly the same level. Granted, my experience in this matter is limited, so take it with a grain of salt. It may very well be that Arms is stronger than Fury in some/many/most scenarios. Time will tell.

Now then, on to the guide.

Glyphs
Rending/Execution/MS
Glyph of Bladestorm is bad.

Specs
Single target - Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Better AoE - Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Tweaks
As discussed below, using HS is an option in an Arms build. If you do find yourself using it, taking Imp. HS might be a good choice. It wouldn't make a huge difference, but every little bit can help.

Similarly, you can be flexible with the point you put in Weapon Mastery depending on your expertise.

Rotation
The rotation is simple, really. Your basic goal is to use every GCD available. There isn't really a rotation in this, per se, but instead a priority queue:
- Maintain Rend
- Mortal Strike
- Execute
- Overpower
- Slam

This is not set in stone. You're going to want to adjust dynamically depending on what you rage intake is, movement, etc. With a bit of practice, you'll have a feel for it. Some notes:

TfB deserves special notice, because it's going to trigger in a changing fashion. Here's a breakdown, assuming you're using Glyph of Rending (note that Rend ticks every 3 seconds, for 7 ticks with the glyph):

Code:

1 TFB
2
3 TFB
4
5 TFB
6
7 TFB
-- Rend Reapplied --
1
2 TFB
3
4 TFB
5
6 TFB
7

This pattern repeats itself. Notice that the first time, TfB will proc off the last tick, while the second time, it won't. This means that the first time, you're going to want to let Rend fall off naturally. While you could go and reapply rend the third time right after your seventh TfB proc, you're not going to see a DPS gain from this. TfB won't proc any faster, you're reducing your damage per rage, and most importantly, you're reducing your damage per GCD. Arms is a GCD locked spec, so you need to make the most out of each one you get.

I'm going to repeat that again to make it clear: let Rend fall off.

The key with Arms is to make the absolute most out of every GCD, and letting Rend fall off helps you do that.

Heroic Strike
Should you use heroic strike? Maybe. It really depends on your rage intake, and if you're riding a lucky white crit streak. You'd only want to use it if you have more than around 70 rage (assuming you're expertise/hit capped), but you'll really have to try it for yourself to get the hang of it.

Gearing
First things first, you want to be expertise and hit capped. This is quite easy to do as an Arms warrior - you just need the 8% hit, and 14 extra expertise (for a total of 18 on your character sheet). Why do you want to cap these? First, they're solid DPS stats. I'm not going to say whether they're the best DPS stats for you, but they have one, huge, auxiliary benefit: guaranteed rage income. This is very handy to have when you've got the hang of your basic priority queue, as it allows you to watch a swing timer and plan based on that, safe in the knowledge that rage will be on its way.

But why cap expertise when OP is always available?
Because Arms is a GCD-locked spec. You need to make the most out of every GCD. While it's true that using OP after a dodge can make up for lost damage, the net effect is still a GCD you effectively spent doing nothing. This is a DPS loss. On the other hand, it does mean that expertise is less of a DPS gain to us than it would otherwise be. I can't put an exact number on it, since I haven't done the math and I don't intend to. It's ridiculously easy to cap expertise as Arms, so you should just do it.

Now then, stat priority. Your primary DPS stat is going to be either ArP or AP (and subsequently, Strength). Your primary focus should be on AP until you're above about 3.2k (rough number - you'll probably have to find the right value yourself), at which point ArP takes over as the best stat. Once ArP becomes better than AP your goal is to cap it while keeping your Strength/Crit levels reasonable. ArP gets better and better the more of it you have, so once you start stacking you should keep stacking - in fact, whenever you begin your ArP stacking, completely regem for it.

Even while stacking ArP, you should try to maintain a balance of other stats, of course (ArP is no good without healthy amounts of Crit/AP to go along with it), but always keep in mind that ArP is your best DPS stat. How much ArP do you need? Here's a chart courtesy of Landsoul over at EJ (OP here Official 3.1 changes and discussion - Page 17 - Elitist Jerks)
Code:

Buffs/Debuffs Rating to cap
None 1232
Sunder 1074
Sunder + FF 1039
Sunder + FF + Arms 916
Sunder + FF + Arms + Mace 731

After that, you're looking at Strength, then crit. Crit deserves special mention here as you really should try to keep it higher than 35% raid buffed in order to keep your buffs up and maintain a nice rage income. Don't worry too much if your crit takes a low dip, but do keep it in mind.

Haste is a pretty bad stat for Arms warriors, for two reasons. First, our white damage just isn't that high in the first place. Second, we scale pretty badly with it due to Slam - it gets worse the more haste you have. You really don't want to be stacking Haste if you can find any other DPS stat.

Weapon Spec
Simply put, use Mace until you start passing the ArP cap, and then swap to an axe. Mace is only worth it if you need the ArP, and also only worth it if you're at the point where you're trying to cap ArP.
#4 May 07 2009 at 3:28 AM Rating: Decent
I read the Tank spot section as also as numerous debades about the rotations used some of which even Ripz had posted before posting this article. The theory of his rotation as well as others is just painfull for me to use after being prot like forever...maybe thats the reason I hit almost everything that pops when it pops without using up GCD 's

Ofcourse setting expertise to zero was a joke but the fact is that arms talents are contradictory or at least are contradictory to my logic....meaning that taking some talent will make your opponent not to dodge while another talent in the same tree will proc when a dodge occurs...i find it bizzare...( Mind this .. im a noob arms player)

Also many sites support haste rating to be really bad for warriors and especially bad for Arms warriors but my imba?? weapon has haste rating and I also have Leggings of Innumerable Barbs: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39280 with haste rating ... :((

I also took some glyphs yesterday like Mortal strike and rend and execute and still I suck terribly on the hc test dammy...max 1300DPS I saw once and normally 1100-1200 DPS

In my first hc attempt (without glyphs) on Nexus I scored a 1500 DPS total(due to bladestorm) , so sad... :(( and scored 1100 DPS on single target boss (Normally I would kick my self with so little DPS)

I know that my Hit cap sucks and my exp sucks too but this is all the gear I got to put on to max hit+Expertise :

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dragonblight&cn=Geotank&gn=Sweet+Revenge

Gear will come soon...but is it ok with this gear that I see this kind of DPS???? If I change to furry with another good offhand will I see any difference since ppl say that with furry spec the rotation is more clear ??? (And the guides supporting Furry are richer in extenth , in analysis and less contradictory )
#5 May 07 2009 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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1,622 posts
geotank wrote:
I also took some glyphs yesterday like Mortal strike and rend and execute and still I suck terribly on the hc test dammy...max 1300DPS I saw once and normally 1100-1200 DPS

In my first hc attempt (without glyphs) on Nexus I scored a 1500 DPS total(due to bladestorm) , so sad... :(( and scored 1100 DPS on single target boss (Normally I would kick my self with so little DPS)

You're doing something wrong with your rotation. My off-spec gear is marginally better than your's (mainly because I'm not wasting spots on defensive gear) and I'm able to do 2-3k on bosses in 5-mans. On AoE pulls, (with a good tank) I'm able to crack 4-5k with Bladestorm up. Keep in mind, I have crappy green gems, not gemmed correctly, relatively low hit, and 0 expertise.

Maybe get a scrolling combat text addon so you're not missing Sudden Death / Overpower procs and read up on Arms a bit more?

Edited, May 7th 2009 1:41pm by tabstopper
#6 May 07 2009 at 11:57 PM Rating: Good
No no no...its not about reading......its simply cause I suck as a DPS :P

Yesterday I discovered I have to be behind mobs and not in front.... ( how stupid so used to stand in front of mobs as prot)
Also I re arranged my buttons a bit and scored a good 2000 DPS!!! ( me !! imagine that!!) on a single boss target ( Good thing he wasnt moving around lol)

Ta-da!!... I scored a 1700 average DPS(my 3rd hc as DPS)
:)) So happy ,I think I m gonna cry after last night...


On my 4th hc I ll be more prepared :))


Thank you all for replies :)

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