I was so anxious to be able to duel spec and make finding a group so much better. Now that duel specs are out there was a consensus of a bunch of crappy healer and tank pali was going to influx the game. I did not buy into it but now I see what Everybody meant. Im a holy pali and I cannot tell you how many groups i have been in where the Prot Pali tank does not want to use Sanc because giving themselves king gives them extra Health and Mana. Then i have to explain give yourself Sanc and I will give you BoK, and the importance of BoSanc. Not to mention the Huge dmg spikes that leads me to believe that one of the palis was not using HS. This is not an isolated instance it has happened 3 times already. Anybody have other stories with Ret, Holy? RANT OVER
Edited, Apr 28th 2009 11:51am by ryuenza
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I haven't come across this problem so far. The dual-specced paladins I encounter are mostly holy/prots that have dabbled with ret spec so they can relax for a while. My only beef with dual-spec is having my bag-space limited by having (choosing) to carry the gear for my other spec around, which currently runs to 17/18 items.
On the other hand since I can willingly change between holy and ret, it's made daily quests a lot less hassle.
On the other hand since I can willingly change between holy and ret, it's made daily quests a lot less hassle.
The only thing about dual spec that I hate is how lazy players are.
When I see a group of a FANTASTIC Tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 mage DPS, and a SP that, despite there being ZERO HEALERS responding to go, refuses to change to Holy or Disc and the party breaks.
Now with Pallies I understand. You can be Prot/Ret. There's a chance you can't heal. Druids I get, you could be Boomkin/Feral. Shamans I get, you could be Elem/Enhance. Fine.
But a Priest? If you're a priest, you should be ready to heal if asked. YES you can roll on DPS items(why not, they are pretty much the same aren't they? they made Healing and Damage the same) but to be so selfish you refuse to swap to healing?
You're a priest. I don't care that they offer DPS spec, you can heal. If you're so stuck up to healing, you deserve to sit and rot lfg like the rest of the DPS who can't find a healer either.
When I see a group of a FANTASTIC Tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 mage DPS, and a SP that, despite there being ZERO HEALERS responding to go, refuses to change to Holy or Disc and the party breaks.
Now with Pallies I understand. You can be Prot/Ret. There's a chance you can't heal. Druids I get, you could be Boomkin/Feral. Shamans I get, you could be Elem/Enhance. Fine.
But a Priest? If you're a priest, you should be ready to heal if asked. YES you can roll on DPS items(why not, they are pretty much the same aren't they? they made Healing and Damage the same) but to be so selfish you refuse to swap to healing?
You're a priest. I don't care that they offer DPS spec, you can heal. If you're so stuck up to healing, you deserve to sit and rot lfg like the rest of the DPS who can't find a healer either.
27 posts
When a priest wont change spec.. that would be frustrating.
Things may have changed post WOTLK, but I don't think BoSanc ever was a manditory blessing for tanking, nor was Devotion or Ret aura for that matter. Unless threat/mana/hp/whatever specific issues arise... Did things change so that BoSanc is now a must?
27 posts
Quote:
Things may have changed post WOTLK, but I don't think BoSanc ever was a manditory blessing for tanking, nor was Devotion or Ret aura for that matter. Unless threat/mana/hp/whatever specific issues arise... Did things change so that BoSanc is now a must?
BoSanc regenerates the tanks Mana which is very limited to begin with and reduces all incoming dmg by 3% so yes its mandatory. NO MANA tank dies
Tsuvati wrote:
The only thing about dual spec that I hate is how lazy players are.
When I see a group of a FANTASTIC Tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 mage DPS, and a SP that, despite there being ZERO HEALERS responding to go, refuses to change to Holy or Disc and the party breaks.
Now with Pallies I understand. You can be Prot/Ret. There's a chance you can't heal. Druids I get, you could be Boomkin/Feral. Shamans I get, you could be Elem/Enhance. Fine.
But a Priest? If you're a priest, you should be ready to heal if asked. YES you can roll on DPS items(why not, they are pretty much the same aren't they? they made Healing and Damage the same) but to be so selfish you refuse to swap to healing?
You're a priest. I don't care that they offer DPS spec, you can heal. If you're so stuck up to healing, you deserve to sit and rot lfg like the rest of the DPS who can't find a healer either.
When I see a group of a FANTASTIC Tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 mage DPS, and a SP that, despite there being ZERO HEALERS responding to go, refuses to change to Holy or Disc and the party breaks.
Now with Pallies I understand. You can be Prot/Ret. There's a chance you can't heal. Druids I get, you could be Boomkin/Feral. Shamans I get, you could be Elem/Enhance. Fine.
But a Priest? If you're a priest, you should be ready to heal if asked. YES you can roll on DPS items(why not, they are pretty much the same aren't they? they made Healing and Damage the same) but to be so selfish you refuse to swap to healing?
You're a priest. I don't care that they offer DPS spec, you can heal. If you're so stuck up to healing, you deserve to sit and rot lfg like the rest of the DPS who can't find a healer either.
Maybe they (A) haven't purchased dual spec, (B) have shadow PVE/shadow PVP, (C) shadow PVE/disc PVP. Maybe they dont have the gear to main heal a heroic, maybe they dont want to heal a heroic. Quit telling people how to play. What about paladins who go ret/ret? Why is enh/ele OK in your books? What about druids who go boomkin/feral dps?
Don't tell people how to dual spec. If you want a healer so bad, make your own.
I actually said Druids in there if you read it.
And how does making a class I don't like help me gear a class I do? If I wanted a healer SO BAD I'd log my Ret, spec Holy and toss on my gimp MP5 gear.
I don't want to have ANY healer, I want a good one who will keep the tank alive and let my Mage gear up.
That was a realllllllly stupid point.
And how does making a class I don't like help me gear a class I do? If I wanted a healer SO BAD I'd log my Ret, spec Holy and toss on my gimp MP5 gear.
I don't want to have ANY healer, I want a good one who will keep the tank alive and let my Mage gear up.
That was a realllllllly stupid point.
TinyTin wrote:
Things may have changed post WOTLK, but I don't think BoSanc ever was a manditory blessing for tanking, nor was Devotion or Ret aura for that matter. Unless threat/mana/hp/whatever specific issues arise... Did things change so that BoSanc is now a must?
Yes, Virginia, BoSanc is a must.
Most of our Mana Regen comes from BoSanc.
We get Damage Reduction from BoSanc.
BoSanc makes a Prot Paladin godly solo, and in groups too.
I can't think of any other blessing that even comes close. Sure, Kings would give me +10% Stamina and +10% Strength, yeah. But that doesn't even hold a candle to the DR% and the huge mana regen.
Heck, in raids, if there's a DK tank in the group and a prot paladin... trust me, BoSanc makes a tank DK -godly-.
Or, if you're running an instance, it is worth it to slap a Greater BoSanc on the Tank DK and then switch specs back to your other spec if possible, the blessing is That good.
Quote:
Most of our Mana Regen comes from BoSanc.
Against a single target this is not the case. Divine Plea+SA provide much more to the point that Kings is better if the boss doesn't actually melee you much(any caster type boss).
Quote:
I can't think of any other blessing that even comes close. Sure, Kings would give me +10% Stamina and +10% Strength, yeah. But that doesn't even hold a candle to the DR% and the huge mana regen.
Heck, in raids, if there's a DK tank in the group and a prot paladin... trust me, BoSanc makes a tank DK -godly-.
Or, if you're running an instance, it is worth it to slap a Greater BoSanc on the Tank DK and then switch specs back to your other spec if possible, the blessing is That good.
Heck, in raids, if there's a DK tank in the group and a prot paladin... trust me, BoSanc makes a tank DK -godly-.
Or, if you're running an instance, it is worth it to slap a Greater BoSanc on the Tank DK and then switch specs back to your other spec if possible, the blessing is That good.
BoSanc no longer provides anything but mana and 3% damage reduction. So it is no longer even close to 'godly' for a DK or any other tank. The only time its 'godly' for a prot pally is when you're aoe grinding as you will never run oom which means you will most likely never die.
Edited, Apr 28th 2009 4:06pm by mahlerite
They nerfed BoSanc to no longer give Rage/Rune Power?
*rolls eyes* Okay, that was stupid...
*rolls eyes* Okay, that was stupid...
Zariamnk wrote:
They nerfed BoSanc to no longer give Rage/Rune Power?
*rolls eyes* Okay, that was stupid...
*rolls eyes* Okay, that was stupid...
Their reasoning for this is that it made it a "mandatory" buff for raids *also rolls eyes*
Wonder how long it'll be before they change Bloodlust/Heroism since it's a "mandatory" buff.
nothing is mandatory in a 5man. if i am the lone pally in a heroic i will always use Kings(more health, more threat, more block, more dodge, more crit, more mp). but since you have 2 pallies in group i dont understand why someone would not want both Kings and Sanc. however, i wouldnt waste my time trying to convince someone of the benefit of having both buffs...cuz thats a great indicator of how the rest of the run will go.
i have a better case for you: a prot pally that constantly uses Divine Shield. i tell him to stop doing that, that he is dropping aggro and killing our mage(#2 threat). he says DS doesn't drop his threat(which is true). then i explain the difference between aggro and threat. he leaves frustrated, i tank the rest.
i wouldn't put it on the priests shoulders. i've main healed every 5man Heroic(except OK) as Ret. i'll even OH to pick up the slack sometimes.
i have a better case for you: a prot pally that constantly uses Divine Shield. i tell him to stop doing that, that he is dropping aggro and killing our mage(#2 threat). he says DS doesn't drop his threat(which is true). then i explain the difference between aggro and threat. he leaves frustrated, i tank the rest.
Quote:
The only thing about dual spec that I hate is how lazy players are.
When I see a group of a FANTASTIC Tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 mage DPS, and a SP that, despite there being ZERO HEALERS responding to go, refuses to change to Holy or Disc and the party breaks.
Now with Pallies I understand. You can be Prot/Ret. There's a chance you can't heal. Druids I get, you could be Boomkin/Feral. Shamans I get, you could be Elem/Enhance. Fine.
But a Priest? If you're a priest, you should be ready to heal if asked. YES you can roll on DPS items(why not, they are pretty much the same aren't they? they made Healing and Damage the same) but to be so selfish you refuse to swap to healing?
You're a priest. I don't care that they offer DPS spec, you can heal. If you're so stuck up to healing, you deserve to sit and rot lfg like the rest of the DPS who can't find a healer either.
When I see a group of a FANTASTIC Tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 mage DPS, and a SP that, despite there being ZERO HEALERS responding to go, refuses to change to Holy or Disc and the party breaks.
Now with Pallies I understand. You can be Prot/Ret. There's a chance you can't heal. Druids I get, you could be Boomkin/Feral. Shamans I get, you could be Elem/Enhance. Fine.
But a Priest? If you're a priest, you should be ready to heal if asked. YES you can roll on DPS items(why not, they are pretty much the same aren't they? they made Healing and Damage the same) but to be so selfish you refuse to swap to healing?
You're a priest. I don't care that they offer DPS spec, you can heal. If you're so stuck up to healing, you deserve to sit and rot lfg like the rest of the DPS who can't find a healer either.
i wouldn't put it on the priests shoulders. i've main healed every 5man Heroic(except OK) as Ret. i'll even OH to pick up the slack sometimes.
Tsuvati wrote:
I actually said Druids in there if you read it.
And how does making a class I don't like help me gear a class I do? If I wanted a healer SO BAD I'd log my Ret, spec Holy and toss on my gimp MP5 gear.
I don't want to have ANY healer, I want a good one who will keep the tank alive and let my Mage gear up.
That was a realllllllly stupid point.
And how does making a class I don't like help me gear a class I do? If I wanted a healer SO BAD I'd log my Ret, spec Holy and toss on my gimp MP5 gear.
I don't want to have ANY healer, I want a good one who will keep the tank alive and let my Mage gear up.
That was a realllllllly stupid point.
well, I think you pretty much answered why the priest shouldn't have to heal. to be honest, both of my Paladins have healing secondary specs. one is ret/holy and one is prot holy. some of us aren't here to help pugs like you gear up. I don't need heroics enough to heal them, therefore I won't heal them anymore. if we don't find another healer i'll level an alt or go farming for stuff that might really be useful. that changes if its a guildie of course. I will help them gear up and i'll heal to do so if its really needed. but some of us (you included clearly) don't enjoy healing enough to do it in pugs. dual specs is not for you to tell others how to play. its for you to choose what type of flexibility you want and let others do the dame for themselves.
There's a difference between taking a tool that fits your needs when it does, and grabbing a tool you don't even need and then trying to "make the most out of it".
1- About tanks a healers:
There's characters like healers and tanks which are fun in groups but suck at solo. Back at BC those chars where nearly unplayable because of how much solo content was forced into you even if you don't want it. So even if you WANTED to be a healer you would not play that char much or not spec for healing at all because of this. Specially if you only had one high level char in that server.
What dual spec does is allow people who WANT TO play healers and tanks to be able to do so without a ton of discouraging drawbacks because it no longer takes away your ability to solo.
What it shouldn't be doing is making people play specs they don't want to just so that they can fit into some group for a run.
2- About PvE and PvP:
The other side of Dual Spec is that it allows people to spec in different ways for PvE and PvP. In the case of people who wanted to play the same char in PvE and PvP they don't do good enough with a PvP spec in raids and suck majorly in PvP if they have a raiding spec. Dual allows you to go shadow/shadow or ret/ret or enh/enh so that you can raid and PvP with the same char without needing constant respecs.
You shouldn't be using dual specs for anything that you weren't already using respecs for in the past.
1- About tanks a healers:
There's characters like healers and tanks which are fun in groups but suck at solo. Back at BC those chars where nearly unplayable because of how much solo content was forced into you even if you don't want it. So even if you WANTED to be a healer you would not play that char much or not spec for healing at all because of this. Specially if you only had one high level char in that server.
What dual spec does is allow people who WANT TO play healers and tanks to be able to do so without a ton of discouraging drawbacks because it no longer takes away your ability to solo.
What it shouldn't be doing is making people play specs they don't want to just so that they can fit into some group for a run.
2- About PvE and PvP:
The other side of Dual Spec is that it allows people to spec in different ways for PvE and PvP. In the case of people who wanted to play the same char in PvE and PvP they don't do good enough with a PvP spec in raids and suck majorly in PvP if they have a raiding spec. Dual allows you to go shadow/shadow or ret/ret or enh/enh so that you can raid and PvP with the same char without needing constant respecs.
You shouldn't be using dual specs for anything that you weren't already using respecs for in the past.
My main complaint is that I am now too well known on my server as a healer, I get whispered regularly to heal Heroics, but when I ask if I can roll on the DPS drops for my offspec, the DPS complain. It has got to the point where I refuse to heal Heroics now unless I can roll on the DPS loot because there is no Healing stuff I need from them and would rather do them on my offspec.
I currently have no Heroic gear for my offspec but I can pull 2k dps selfbuffed, so I would be a valuable addition to any party yet they all want me to heal. It seems like the 3000+g I have spent on Dualspec and equipping my ret set was wasted, my main spec is after all my main spec. And everybody wants my main spec because it is best.
I currently have no Heroic gear for my offspec but I can pull 2k dps selfbuffed, so I would be a valuable addition to any party yet they all want me to heal. It seems like the 3000+g I have spent on Dualspec and equipping my ret set was wasted, my main spec is after all my main spec. And everybody wants my main spec because it is best.
I'm honestly sick of this being an issue. You should all be thankful that blizz added dual spec at all for whatever reason YOU will use it. Instead of "Waa this priest/shammy/pally/druid won't heal" how bout you be grateful that there ARE more tanks and healers. If everyone was like Tsuvati "I dont want to heal. I want others to help gear up my mage. Waa" then we would have a bunch of 12yr old idiot mages running around. I understand that it sucks to see a group disband because a potential healer did/would/could not heal, but srsly cry moar.
I can see the frustration. But let me give this from a different perspective. Im Prot/Holy now. Prot being my main spec. Im working on a healing set for the arena with my wife but I am terrible with healing. I would never subject a group to my healing especially a heroic. Its quite possible these others were in the same boat. They didn't believe their gear/skill was up to a heroic in the off spec.
BoSanc is my preferred buff. I never cast kings on my self unless an other paladin has Sanc and this includes raids.
BoSanc is my preferred buff. I never cast kings on my self unless an other paladin has Sanc and this includes raids.
I have only noticed one negative - Players are playing rolls in groups that they are not really experienced at.
Had a tank in VH admit he forgot he was the tank - Everyone was just standing there - looking at him, he forgot he was NOT DPS and WAS a tank.... Just forgot to run in to the mob first... hahah
Have seen a lot of healers or tanks that are suddenly not healing/tanking and telling people what to do... Had one healer yelling at my mage because he was only doing 1750 DPS... I had to point out that I was #2 on DPS meter and the fact that his priest could out DPS us was moot - he was a Holy priest now/today and if his DPS gear was on, we'd quickly wipe no matter how much DPS he could throw out.
Haha - just people not used to their 'new' roles...
Had a tank in VH admit he forgot he was the tank - Everyone was just standing there - looking at him, he forgot he was NOT DPS and WAS a tank.... Just forgot to run in to the mob first... hahah
Have seen a lot of healers or tanks that are suddenly not healing/tanking and telling people what to do... Had one healer yelling at my mage because he was only doing 1750 DPS... I had to point out that I was #2 on DPS meter and the fact that his priest could out DPS us was moot - he was a Holy priest now/today and if his DPS gear was on, we'd quickly wipe no matter how much DPS he could throw out.
Haha - just people not used to their 'new' roles...
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