One of my friends plays a DK.
Pre 3.1 he was doing >2k DPS without problems. However, since then he has trouble staying above 1.7k.
His armory is http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Laughing+Skull&n=Deathninjaa
Any suggestions on spec and gear would be appreicated.
His rotation was something like IT PS DS HS HS DC HS HS DRW
I'm going to start searching the dk threads but any information you can give would be great.
Thanks
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Can someone help my friend?Follow
Well, that Sigil has got go go.
Blood Spec, no duel spec, and a sigil that helps Scourge Strike? Ok.
Glyph of Plague Strike, the Ghoul and Scourge Strike..
WELL NOW.
As far as his spec, there's nothing wrong with the points he has in Blood, however, his placement in Unholy I greatly question. In particular, those two points in Night of the Dead, which I suspect is there simply for the lower CD on Army of the Dead.
I'd take those two points out and put them in Epidemic myself.
He should also dump the Glyphs of Scourge Strike and the Ghoul. They are worthless for a Blood Spec. Have him grab the Glyph of Death Strike.
Also...actually, he should stop messing with a lot of those Unholy points. He's just hurting himself...
For DPS, there is the awesome 0/10/61 build, but for what I think he wants, this is what I would suggest:
51/2/18
Rotation is IT PS HS HS DS (RUNIC DUMP, HIS CHOICE) DS DS HS HS
Repeat.
Blood Spec, no duel spec, and a sigil that helps Scourge Strike? Ok.
Glyph of Plague Strike, the Ghoul and Scourge Strike..
WELL NOW.
As far as his spec, there's nothing wrong with the points he has in Blood, however, his placement in Unholy I greatly question. In particular, those two points in Night of the Dead, which I suspect is there simply for the lower CD on Army of the Dead.
I'd take those two points out and put them in Epidemic myself.
He should also dump the Glyphs of Scourge Strike and the Ghoul. They are worthless for a Blood Spec. Have him grab the Glyph of Death Strike.
Also...actually, he should stop messing with a lot of those Unholy points. He's just hurting himself...
For DPS, there is the awesome 0/10/61 build, but for what I think he wants, this is what I would suggest:
51/2/18
Rotation is IT PS HS HS DS (RUNIC DUMP, HIS CHOICE) DS DS HS HS
Repeat.
"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible c*** : me."
Yeah, I saw his sigil and glyphs right after I posted this. I have inscription so we will get that corrected ASAP.
Could you do me a favor and link the 0/10/61 build? He's been unholy for most of the time he has played so maybe it would be easier for him to go that route.
Thanks for your help.
Could you do me a favor and link the 0/10/61 build? He's been unholy for most of the time he has played so maybe it would be easier for him to go that route.
Thanks for your help.
Here ya go.
It's all kinds of awesome. I saw a major jump in DPS with it. For it to shine, the Glyph of Scourge Strike is a must, and Glyph of Blood Tap works well for Ghoul Frenzy; I macro'd Blood Tap and Ghoul Frenzy to work together.
Standard Rotation is: IT PS BS BS Unholy Blight DC DC SS (Repeat, replace IT/PS with SS though)
Use Ghoul Frenzy at the start of every fight, and you'll be rockin.
It's all kinds of awesome. I saw a major jump in DPS with it. For it to shine, the Glyph of Scourge Strike is a must, and Glyph of Blood Tap works well for Ghoul Frenzy; I macro'd Blood Tap and Ghoul Frenzy to work together.
Standard Rotation is: IT PS BS BS Unholy Blight DC DC SS (Repeat, replace IT/PS with SS though)
Use Ghoul Frenzy at the start of every fight, and you'll be rockin.
"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible c*** : me."
Thank you very much! I really appreciate it.
Why doesn't your friend ask for help himself?
I told him to go to allakhazam and his reply was "I'm not a mage".
<Insert shaking head emoticon.>
I wish I had money for premium...
I wish I had money for premium...
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Cunk wrote:
I told him to go to allakhazam and his reply was "I'm not a mage".
Tell him to kindly fook off. If he wants help he needs to take the time and effort to learn on his own. Until then he's a terribad moron with a doormat for a friend.
That "I'm not a mage bit" I find remarkably funny. That's the only class forum I posted in for a good long time...
Given his choice of glyphs with Blood Spec, he needs to make friends with a mage though. He could really use an intellect buff.
Given his choice of glyphs with Blood Spec, he needs to make friends with a mage though. He could really use an intellect buff.
"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible c*** : me."
MentalFrog wrote:
Tell him to kindly fook off. If he wants help he needs to take the time and effort to learn on his own. Until then he's a terribad moron with a doormat for a friend.
Well, thanks for the help anyway... oh wait, you didn't help. You just took time out of your day to insult me and my friend.
In that case you are the one who can "fook off".
My reply to what you said was just a joke. He was over my house and was wondering about specs so I jumped on here because I knew I would get a quick reply with helpful information which BillyRayValentine was kind enough to give.
My friend has been switching specs by looking at what other DKs in the game are using. Over the past couple days he has been messing around with different specs to see which one he liked the most. He didn't want to spend the money on new glyphs and such as he didn't know what he would end up speccing into.
I didn't think I would have to type all of that out but with people assuming they know the whole story I was way off.
There is no friend is there? Admit it, you just wanted advice without getting flamed. So much for that.
OK, first of all, you need to learn how to prioritise your stats.
You've got pure crit gems in your gear when you aren't even hit capped. Hit > crit to the cap, in all cases, all the time. Who cares if you crit .03% more often if those possible crits are missing 2% of the time?
You don't HAVE to match the gem to the socket, only do it if the benefit of matching the gem (AKA socket bonus) over rules the benefit you'd get from gemming good gems. For example, I see that in your legs you get six hit rating from matching your sockets. Put an orange gem in that yellow socket, they sell one with Strength and Hit, or one with Strength and Crit. You'll keep the 6 hit socket bonus, gain 6 hit / crit from the gem, and gain another 6 strength from the orange gem as well.
Actually, I'd advise replacing all of your crit gems with either Strength / Hit or Strength / Crit gems.
Through proper gemming you could get much closer to the hit cap, and your DPS should rise significantly.
Be sure to use a proper rotation. IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS ad nauseum seems to work. Keep up bone shield and UB as much as possible, and use HoW to gain that RP boost if you're low on RP and have a GCD free.
I feel like I'm missing something, but you get the point. Oh, and if there's less than 3 seconds left on diseases, use IT -> PS instead of relying on SS to refresh them. Alternately you could use Pestilence if you have the proper glyph.
Edited, May 1st 2009 9:47pm by jaysgsl
You've got pure crit gems in your gear when you aren't even hit capped. Hit > crit to the cap, in all cases, all the time. Who cares if you crit .03% more often if those possible crits are missing 2% of the time?
You don't HAVE to match the gem to the socket, only do it if the benefit of matching the gem (AKA socket bonus) over rules the benefit you'd get from gemming good gems. For example, I see that in your legs you get six hit rating from matching your sockets. Put an orange gem in that yellow socket, they sell one with Strength and Hit, or one with Strength and Crit. You'll keep the 6 hit socket bonus, gain 6 hit / crit from the gem, and gain another 6 strength from the orange gem as well.
Actually, I'd advise replacing all of your crit gems with either Strength / Hit or Strength / Crit gems.
Through proper gemming you could get much closer to the hit cap, and your DPS should rise significantly.
Be sure to use a proper rotation. IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS ad nauseum seems to work. Keep up bone shield and UB as much as possible, and use HoW to gain that RP boost if you're low on RP and have a GCD free.
I feel like I'm missing something, but you get the point. Oh, and if there's less than 3 seconds left on diseases, use IT -> PS instead of relying on SS to refresh them. Alternately you could use Pestilence if you have the proper glyph.
Edited, May 1st 2009 9:47pm by jaysgsl
Quote:
OK, first of all, you need to learn how to prioritise your stats.
You've got pure crit gems in your gear when you aren't even hit capped. Hit > crit to the cap, in all cases, all the time. Who cares if you crit .03% more often if those possible crits are missing 2% of the time?
You don't HAVE to match the gem to the socket, only do it if the benefit of matching the gem (AKA socket bonus) over rules the benefit you'd get from gemming good gems. For example, I see that in your legs you get six hit rating from matching your sockets. Put an orange gem in that yellow socket, they sell one with Strength and Hit. You'll keep the 6 hit socket bonus, gain 6 hit from the gem, and gain another 6 strength from the orange gem as well.
Actually, I'd advise replacing all of your crit gems with either Strength / Hit or Strength / Crit gems.
Through proper gemming you could get much closer to the hit cap, and your DPS should rise significantly. Also, be sure to use a proper rotation. IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS ad nauseum seems to work. Keep up bone shield and UB as much as possible, and use HoW to gain that RP boost. I feel like I'm missing something, but you get the point. Oh, and if there's less than 3 seconds left on diseases, use IT -> PS instead of relying on SS to refresh them. Alternately you could use Pestilence if you have the proper glyph.
You've got pure crit gems in your gear when you aren't even hit capped. Hit > crit to the cap, in all cases, all the time. Who cares if you crit .03% more often if those possible crits are missing 2% of the time?
You don't HAVE to match the gem to the socket, only do it if the benefit of matching the gem (AKA socket bonus) over rules the benefit you'd get from gemming good gems. For example, I see that in your legs you get six hit rating from matching your sockets. Put an orange gem in that yellow socket, they sell one with Strength and Hit. You'll keep the 6 hit socket bonus, gain 6 hit from the gem, and gain another 6 strength from the orange gem as well.
Actually, I'd advise replacing all of your crit gems with either Strength / Hit or Strength / Crit gems.
Through proper gemming you could get much closer to the hit cap, and your DPS should rise significantly. Also, be sure to use a proper rotation. IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS ad nauseum seems to work. Keep up bone shield and UB as much as possible, and use HoW to gain that RP boost. I feel like I'm missing something, but you get the point. Oh, and if there's less than 3 seconds left on diseases, use IT -> PS instead of relying on SS to refresh them. Alternately you could use Pestilence if you have the proper glyph.
You need to learn how to use line breaks.
While hit is important, there is nothing wrong with getting crit up there, too. Things like
UB and WP aren't going to miss, but they will get a DpS boost through crit. Also, Hit is not > Expertise. You need that too. Plus, with 6.9% hit, it is safe to start working on other things and shifting that priority lower until you can get more without sacrificing other stats. He should actually focus on Expertise for a while.
Prioritizing doesn't mean you can just get rid of other stats until you cap one. Due to DR, it is often superior to leave one below cap and work on another, until you get better gear that lets you have both.
You are right about gem bonuses. If you aren't a JC, you can usually just ignore it (the bonus is almost never better than what you can get just using different gems).
[removed for my error about str gems]
Other than that, one more thing. HoW uses a GCD. It should only be used if there is nothing else to do (meaning, you are out of RP and glyphs are on CD, as is your Blood Tap and ERW).
Edited, May 1st 2009 9:53pm by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
I'll gladly take your advice (I was generalising a lot, giving a better starting point then he has. I wasn't so much complaining about the lack of hit gems as wasted raw crit gems. Crit / Strength was also advised.)
I really do apologise about the line breaks. I'm a local grammar **** here and I guess I'm just getting used to my temporary monitor with an ultra low resolution breaking the lines too soon visibly. I'll get to correcting that for ease of reading and lack of detail.
I really do apologise about the line breaks. I'm a local grammar **** here and I guess I'm just getting used to my temporary monitor with an ultra low resolution breaking the lines too soon visibly. I'll get to correcting that for ease of reading and lack of detail.
If I may interject, looking at the current spec, gear and stats and all, I've found that Wandering Plague with less than 25% crit is not as powerful as it could be; have you tried pulling points out of Dirge and Wandering Plague to try them with Icy Talons? With the spec's reliance on autoattacks (BCB and Necrosis) the 20% speed boost will make a difference with a 2h weapon.
Quote:
If I may interject, looking at the current spec, gear and stats and all, I've found that Wandering Plague with less than 25% crit is not as powerful as it could be; have you tried pulling points out of Dirge and Wandering Plague to try them with Icy Talons? With the spec's reliance on autoattacks (BCB and Necrosis) the 20% speed boost will make a difference with a 2h weapon.
Well, yeah. WP with a lower proc rate is less powerful than WP with a higher proc rate...
It is nice because it gives you 200+ threat on every mob with 10% crit, with EACH mob every disease duration.
WP is MORE than worth it with less than 25% crit.
And you should have a Shaman in a 25 man raid, so IT is a waste. But, if you won't have one, you can go for it.
But I still wouldn't give up the AoE threat.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Quote:
And you should have a Shaman in a 25 man raid, so IT is a waste.
Well.... there is a way for enhance to spec and not take the haste raid buff which provides higher personal dps. So Imp Talons can often provide higher rDPS even with a couple of shaman. Just as a note
It's all very situational, and for the most part it seems like whether your friend wants to focus more on single target threat generation or AoE threat generation is the question now.
You're absolutely right though, even with 20% crit there's plenty of AoE threat generation and a significant amount of single target as well from Wandering Plague.
I personally find AoE threat generation not so much a priority as most AoE pulls with decent DPS are over before the mobs can do much other than wonder how all those daggers and ice shards got lodged into their skulls.
You're absolutely right though, even with 20% crit there's plenty of AoE threat generation and a significant amount of single target as well from Wandering Plague.
I personally find AoE threat generation not so much a priority as most AoE pulls with decent DPS are over before the mobs can do much other than wonder how all those daggers and ice shards got lodged into their skulls.
Quote:
Well.... there is a way for enhance to spec and not take the haste raid buff which provides higher personal dps. So Imp Talons can often provide higher rDPS even with a couple of shaman. Just as a note
What raid-buff talents to Shaman get without talenting it? It is 2 points for one, but 6 for the other (and it requires you to take Imp IT).
And, if you have multiple Shaman, they aren't giving up other wind totems for it.
I wouldn't suggest IT without knowing the raid make-up (well, unless stipulating the make-up it would be good for).
If his raid situation makes it possible, I'd say sure. But, either way, he won't see higher threat or DpS from it unless he is already running without a Shaman or takes Imp Icy Talons and gets 5%.
But, there is another pretty big problem with Unholy going for IT over a Shaman--Glyph of SS. You should probably be using this, so you won't be refreshing your FF every 20 seconds. So, you have to sacrifice either personal TpS or a raid buff. Because higher TpS means that every other DpS can do more, and another DK or a Shaman can give a buff equal to or slightly worse (if not Enh) than I would say the higher threat is superior.
Edited, May 6th 2009 10:22am by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
I'm not suggesting a deep Unholy build go after Imp Talons. Only a crazy person would do such a thing! Sorry for that confusion =)
If you're deep Frost (2-hand) I can't really justify not taking it. It's a better raid buff than Windfury given the small mitigation benefit and with 2 shaman in the raid allows for other wind totem buffs. Can't say what they're dropping in my raid (although I have a 70 shaman, I'm not well versed in their raid situation to be honest). Just wanted to clarify the statement above.
Also: Wandering Plague is a solid talent and I defy you to not have decent crit in the iLevel gear you need for serious Ulduar progression. Honestly I wouldn't go Unholy without it.
If you're deep Frost (2-hand) I can't really justify not taking it. It's a better raid buff than Windfury given the small mitigation benefit and with 2 shaman in the raid allows for other wind totem buffs. Can't say what they're dropping in my raid (although I have a 70 shaman, I'm not well versed in their raid situation to be honest). Just wanted to clarify the statement above.
Also: Wandering Plague is a solid talent and I defy you to not have decent crit in the iLevel gear you need for serious Ulduar progression. Honestly I wouldn't go Unholy without it.
Shaman FaQ wrote:
Wrath of Air - Gives a spell haste benefit to members within range. As you could have guessed, use this totem in caster heavy parties, or parties where a windfury totem wouldn't be prefered.
Windfury - Raises melee and ranged haste to all members within range. Great for all melee groups and hunters. Used to be an on hit/extra hit aggro generating and dps machine that was changed in WOTLK. But it's still a great help for tanking classes aggro generation.
Grounding - Redirects the next harmful spell cast at the Shaman or his party members within range of the totem, to the totem, absorbing the spell. While this totem used to be much more effective against casters in general, it is still effective at catching cc effects or harmful spells. A well timed grounding totem can turn the tide of battle too. In its current state, if a harmful spell is enroute to the totem, such as a fireball, and an instant cast spell is cast at the Shaman or his party that gets redirected. Both spells will be absorbed by the totem.
Nature Resistance - Put you at a moderate level of Nature Resistance, does not always stack with other nature resistance buffs. Sparingly useful, use it to increase your parties nature resistance.
Sentry - Puts down a sentry totem at your location with 100 health that allows you to see from the totems point of view. Also shows you when it gets destroyed. You can right-click the buff to switch views between your character and the totem. Has very very limited use.
Windfury - Raises melee and ranged haste to all members within range. Great for all melee groups and hunters. Used to be an on hit/extra hit aggro generating and dps machine that was changed in WOTLK. But it's still a great help for tanking classes aggro generation.
Grounding - Redirects the next harmful spell cast at the Shaman or his party members within range of the totem, to the totem, absorbing the spell. While this totem used to be much more effective against casters in general, it is still effective at catching cc effects or harmful spells. A well timed grounding totem can turn the tide of battle too. In its current state, if a harmful spell is enroute to the totem, such as a fireball, and an instant cast spell is cast at the Shaman or his party that gets redirected. Both spells will be absorbed by the totem.
Nature Resistance - Put you at a moderate level of Nature Resistance, does not always stack with other nature resistance buffs. Sparingly useful, use it to increase your parties nature resistance.
Sentry - Puts down a sentry totem at your location with 100 health that allows you to see from the totems point of view. Also shows you when it gets destroyed. You can right-click the buff to switch views between your character and the totem. Has very very limited use.
Well, if you have one Shaman and a DK, you can get WoA and IT. If you get two Shaman, they COULD go for Grounding, but if that isn't raid-wide it may not be useful.
And, if one is an Enh Shaman, I would prefer they put the two points there over IT--but this is from a tanking perspective, only. So, the haste buff from Imp IT is less important and can actually have negative effects.
Otherwise, though, I would say they should take it. My old Frost build had it because I couldn't guarantee a Shaman.
Plus, I would still take Imp Icy Touch as a Frost DK, so I wouldn't group that in with IT.
Here is the build I'd take without IT.
Here is the build I'd take without it.
Honestly, as a tank, if it is at all possible for a Shaman to drop it, I consider it better. The loss of 4% damage to all weapon strikes, RSs and Weapon-based abilities (like Oblit) is much harder to swallow than 5% Haste. Especially when it comes at the cost of longer diseases, Rune Tap and an ability like DC (or any other 1 point). Or you could grab them, but lose KM, which is an awful loss in threat.
Because a tank needs to be cranking out high TpS to let the DpS do as much as possible, I would prioritize that over the raid buff if a Shaman could take it. Because, that TpS IS a raid buff--it just doesn't get an icon.
So, if you can't guarantee a Shaman--take it. If you can grab one, but have a caster heavy raid and the spell haste is better, then take it.
But, if you can get two, pass it up for other threat-generating and utility talents like RT, THWS, DC and Epid.
(Note--this is from a tank perspective only. If you are deep frost for DpS, you should take it unless a Shaman in your raid has their buffing talent. Because you don't need to be focusing on cranking out as much damage as you possibly can <note: Not referring to threat cap> the sacrifice to the raid isn't as large).
Though, I would still prefer a Shaman to do it if possible. 20% from 2 talent points is > 20% from 6. But, if your mages need their spell haste buff, it is better they get that if you only have one Shammy.
And I've been babbling.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
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