I intend to spec my pally Holy/Prot after today. I feel like I have a pretty good grip on Holy but I am wondering what spec the pro tanks are looking at for post 3.1.
Thanks!
I found some other threads on this topic after posting this but if you have any new idea's since then let me know.
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=2;mid=1238781076263999589;num=6;page=1
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=2;mid=1237790129299951957;num=16;page=1
Edited, Apr 14th 2009 9:09am by Shojindo
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3.1 Prot Build: Question for the full time tanksFollow
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZE0tAbuMGsIufdxb
This is the build I am planning on using.
This is the build I am planning on using.
I haven't really changed my mind too much. I'm liking the fact I can spec into Pursuit of Justice for tanking now. I know, I know, Tuskarr's Vitality >.> It's what I have on my boots right now, but I'm going back to Greater Fortitude now. From what I understand, PoJ is a bigger speed boost than the enchant, which to me is very much worth forgoing other talents I could pick up instead.
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=scZE0xA0uMGsIufdxf00b
If I wasn't going with PoJ, I'd take those points and the points from Heart of the Crusader and finish out Seals of the Pure and get Stoicism. But unless there's a crap ton of stuns going on in Ulduar, I'm gonna go with this :)
Or maybe Stoicism instead of the 3 pts in Seals ... Bah, I have time before the servers come back up to decide.
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=scZE0xA0uMGsIufdxf00b
If I wasn't going with PoJ, I'd take those points and the points from Heart of the Crusader and finish out Seals of the Pure and get Stoicism. But unless there's a crap ton of stuns going on in Ulduar, I'm gonna go with this :)
Or maybe Stoicism instead of the 3 pts in Seals ... Bah, I have time before the servers come back up to decide.
Thats real close to what I came up with Maulgak. Except I had the last two points in Seals of the Pure rather than pursuit. I do miss pursuit though when I don't have it. I got spoiled with it on my Ret. Hmmm...tough call XD
Edited, Apr 15th 2009 4:19pm by Shojindo
Edited, Apr 15th 2009 4:19pm by Shojindo
I think that, even with the changes, Prot Pallys are highly dependant on whether there are Ret pallys in the raid. For my group - we don't have any Ret Paladins. So - I aim to pick up a few ret-like buffs.
I'm going to get 10pts in T.1 Ret, then Heart of the Crusader, then PoJ. Having that 3% crit from Crusader is a nice add for my DPS. I'd rather give them the crit - than add 6% damage to my judgements. My threat is not yet a problem - if it becomes a problem - I'll have to stop giving the DPS that crit buff....
If we get a Ret Paly, I'll likely drop it and go get my +Damage on Judgements.
I'm going to get 10pts in T.1 Ret, then Heart of the Crusader, then PoJ. Having that 3% crit from Crusader is a nice add for my DPS. I'd rather give them the crit - than add 6% damage to my judgements. My threat is not yet a problem - if it becomes a problem - I'll have to stop giving the DPS that crit buff....
If we get a Ret Paly, I'll likely drop it and go get my +Damage on Judgements.
Quote:
My threat is not yet a problem - if it becomes a problem - I'll have to stop giving the DPS that crit buff....
Instead of not providing a buff, why don't you just go deeper into ret to pickup more threat? Something like 0/51/20 maybe.
My statement was meant to imply I'd pick up the increase in Judgment damage.
I forget what it buffs your Judgments, but let's say 20%.
If I'm doing 1k Judgments (Example... 1k is an easy number to use)
That equates to a 1.2k Judgment…
Rough/Quick math –
3x1000 = 3000 Threat
3x1200 = 3600 Threat
600 more…
(I know that’s not a perfect way of doing it, but the napkin math is as far as I go in theory-craft…)
Edit: Also - I wouldn't reduce my mitigation (i.e. take less tanking talents). If there is a point where DPS can out threat me - They are going to need to adjust... Not me. At the current rate - That would equate to sustained DPS >4k. My guild just doesn't have that... I'm sure some do.
Edited, Apr 15th 2009 10:39am by Borsuk
I forget what it buffs your Judgments, but let's say 20%.
If I'm doing 1k Judgments (Example... 1k is an easy number to use)
That equates to a 1.2k Judgment…
Rough/Quick math –
3x1000 = 3000 Threat
3x1200 = 3600 Threat
600 more…
(I know that’s not a perfect way of doing it, but the napkin math is as far as I go in theory-craft…)
Edit: Also - I wouldn't reduce my mitigation (i.e. take less tanking talents). If there is a point where DPS can out threat me - They are going to need to adjust... Not me. At the current rate - That would equate to sustained DPS >4k. My guild just doesn't have that... I'm sure some do.
Edited, Apr 15th 2009 10:39am by Borsuk
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#scZVhxAMuMGsIufdxf00b
That's my build.
Divinity is a total and utter waste for a tank. If a whole whopping 5% of healing makes or breaks you staying alive something is wrong with your healers.
I grabbed 2 points of Pursuit of Justice because I really love that speed boost (And adore not having to mess with Tuskarr's Vitality).
3 points in Seals of the Pure. I'd put more but i didn't have any left. I had none pre 3.1 so the threat and damage boost was nice. But after getting some of the t7 and my Red Sword of Courage threat was no longer a problem. I grabbed it just for the boost.
I love Stoicism. But its expendable.
Improved hammer of justice gives me 20 sec cooldown of hammer of justice (After Judgements of the Just). a 20 sec hammer of justice really expands my ability to control mobs and added power against casters.
That's my build.
Divinity is a total and utter waste for a tank. If a whole whopping 5% of healing makes or breaks you staying alive something is wrong with your healers.
I grabbed 2 points of Pursuit of Justice because I really love that speed boost (And adore not having to mess with Tuskarr's Vitality).
3 points in Seals of the Pure. I'd put more but i didn't have any left. I had none pre 3.1 so the threat and damage boost was nice. But after getting some of the t7 and my Red Sword of Courage threat was no longer a problem. I grabbed it just for the boost.
I love Stoicism. But its expendable.
Improved hammer of justice gives me 20 sec cooldown of hammer of justice (After Judgements of the Just). a 20 sec hammer of justice really expands my ability to control mobs and added power against casters.
Quote:
Divinity is a total and utter waste for a tank. If a whole whopping 5% of healing makes or breaks you staying alive something is wrong with your healers.
My guild puts a Paly Healer on me. That means that whopping 5% incoming heals is larger because the Holy Paly is also putting 5% more outgoing heals.
This is my math might be wrong, but if both Healer and Tank are Palys with this ability - it might equate to >10% increase to heals.
10,000 Base Heal
500 5% Out-Going Heal Buff
10,500 Incoming Heal
525 5% In-coming Heal Buff
11,025 Effective Heal on Paly Tank
1025 Bonus Heal Due to Buffs
10.25 % Gain
Can we get a smarter person (Bodhi or similar) to confirm???
If you don't roll with a Paly healer, yeah, it's only 5% and that might not be a manditory talent, but if you have a paly healing you - (and the mechanics stack the way I showed) - that's 10% more heals. That could be huge.
Don't forget that Divinity is not just 5% more healing done TO you, but also 5% more healing done BY you. That means it affects JoL healing, Earth Shield, etc.. (correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty sure certain reactive abilities are affected by this, which is why Divine Plea was changed to only affect HL/FoL/HS).
Quote:
If you don't roll with a Paly healer, yeah, it's only 5% and that might not be a manditory talent, but if you have a paly healing you - (and the mechanics stack the way I showed) - that's 10% more heals. That could be huge.
And thats not counting imp devo aura for another 6%. It all adds up and trust me you're gonna need it in Ulduar, those bosses hit hard.
The ideal prot pally spec after 3.1 is kind of hard to put into a talent calculator because it depends on what other pallies are in the raid in a few places, as well as what kind of content you're doing. I could be brief and post my own spec, but it was made to maximize what I can bring to the raids I do, not to be a cookie cutter for others to follow. Instead it's much easier to discuss the talents where people normally make their mistakes.
In the prot tree:
5/5 Divinity is pretty much useless. It does not equate to 5% more health. What it really produces is the occasional save when you are hit to low health, healed (but not to full), and then brought back down to a point where the margin of difference is greater than your current HP. In all other cases it will have 0 effect. For a more concrete example: If you get a 13k heal w/o divinity, it is 13650 with 5/5 Divinity. For this difference to be live or die, the hit that comes next, without any other heals landing, must hit you for between 13000 and 13650. For smaller heals the window becomes smaller. That is why Divinity sucks.
Stoicism is pretty terrible, too. Stuns from PvE mobs last, at most, 3 seconds. A 30% reduction saves 1 second. For 3 talent points that it terrible.
Reckoning is terrible and if you don't understand why, either it was never explained to you or you're too stubborn to listen.
Guardian's Favor is laughable.
This leaves the only filler prot talents as DS/DG or DS/iHoJ. I went DS/iHoJ because I'm doing Ulduar. 20 second stun comes in handy for Razorscale, Ignis and Iron Council. DS is useful (so far) only on XT-002, but the point had to go somewhere.
Further down the prot tree, many people take 2/2 Spiritual Attunement. This MAY be needed for heroics, but with 100% DP uptime and BoSanc it shouldn't be. For raids it is entirely wasted. With 1/2 SA you SHOULD be able to maintain a full mana pool, or at least your rotations, if you're playing properly.
In the Ret tree:
Benediction is a bad talent, even for a filler.
2/2 iJudg is overkill but arguably useful. Anyone telling you absolutely not because it "breaks the 969" obviously isn't thinking. It doesn't change anything about the 969 (since you won't be able to judge early if you're holding to the rotation) but it does give the option to change things up if necessary. I skipped it, though.
HotC: Take it if no other pally has it or if the one who does dies all the damn time.
Crusade is better DPS/TPS than Sanctity of Battle, Conviction, or Seals of the Pure.
In the Holy Tree:
If you're getting Seals of the Pure, you better be speccing down to Imp. LoH. If you're not going that far down, there's no point to even starting the trip.
You can see my spec here:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Tichondrius&cn=Tyneside&gn=Cult+of+Reason
In the prot tree:
5/5 Divinity is pretty much useless. It does not equate to 5% more health. What it really produces is the occasional save when you are hit to low health, healed (but not to full), and then brought back down to a point where the margin of difference is greater than your current HP. In all other cases it will have 0 effect. For a more concrete example: If you get a 13k heal w/o divinity, it is 13650 with 5/5 Divinity. For this difference to be live or die, the hit that comes next, without any other heals landing, must hit you for between 13000 and 13650. For smaller heals the window becomes smaller. That is why Divinity sucks.
Stoicism is pretty terrible, too. Stuns from PvE mobs last, at most, 3 seconds. A 30% reduction saves 1 second. For 3 talent points that it terrible.
Reckoning is terrible and if you don't understand why, either it was never explained to you or you're too stubborn to listen.
Guardian's Favor is laughable.
This leaves the only filler prot talents as DS/DG or DS/iHoJ. I went DS/iHoJ because I'm doing Ulduar. 20 second stun comes in handy for Razorscale, Ignis and Iron Council. DS is useful (so far) only on XT-002, but the point had to go somewhere.
Further down the prot tree, many people take 2/2 Spiritual Attunement. This MAY be needed for heroics, but with 100% DP uptime and BoSanc it shouldn't be. For raids it is entirely wasted. With 1/2 SA you SHOULD be able to maintain a full mana pool, or at least your rotations, if you're playing properly.
In the Ret tree:
Benediction is a bad talent, even for a filler.
2/2 iJudg is overkill but arguably useful. Anyone telling you absolutely not because it "breaks the 969" obviously isn't thinking. It doesn't change anything about the 969 (since you won't be able to judge early if you're holding to the rotation) but it does give the option to change things up if necessary. I skipped it, though.
HotC: Take it if no other pally has it or if the one who does dies all the damn time.
Crusade is better DPS/TPS than Sanctity of Battle, Conviction, or Seals of the Pure.
In the Holy Tree:
If you're getting Seals of the Pure, you better be speccing down to Imp. LoH. If you're not going that far down, there's no point to even starting the trip.
You can see my spec here:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Tichondrius&cn=Tyneside&gn=Cult+of+Reason
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