Is No One Specced Subtelty Anymore?Follow

If all you're doing is using daggers and stealthing around for RP purposes, go for it.

If you want to actually do damage, both combat and assassination blow it out of the water.

Edit: As a comparison, Subtlety is a utility tree with some neat tricks, but much lower damage. Look at what each tree brings:

Assassination: Mutilate, higher poison damage, some increased energy regeneration, Hunger for blood (15% damage next patch), 6% increased damage, increased crit.
Combat: 5% hit, 2.5% chance to not be dodged/parried, Killing Spree burst, 4% AP/2% damage, great energy regen.
Subtlety: More combo points*, a bunch of stealth moves which will be used between 1-6 times in a boss battle at most, 15% agility and 10% AP.

*To be fair, Subtlety worked okay because of a bug with Honor Among Thieves where it stacks with other HAT rogues in your party (so you get 3 CP per crit instead of 1, assuming you had three HAT rogues). This lead to insane damage... but I believe was fixed in 3.0.8 (or will be soon). Without this bug, HAT rogues just can't keep up with the other specs.

Edited, Mar 30th 2009 9:49am by LockeColeMA

What Feyras isn't mentioning is that well played hat with the right group is doing the most dps in T8 content out of any class or spec ;)

But yeah, sub is bleh. It's situational in pvp (5v5, mage/rogue 2v2). Pve it's lawls, if you want to use daggers, mutilate is your ticket.

I play Shadowdance. I use it alot for Ulti stun locking, just pop off cheapshots and 3-5 point evis on targets then lay down a kidney shot at the end for >20 second stun duration. Helps also to make people blow off there cool downs.

There is no subtlety only ZuulHAT spec.

HAT is an abomination though, even without that previous bug it completely short-circuits all rogue mechanics in order to do EZ DPS. The nerfed retribution mana return because they didn't like the idea of a class completely ignoring a class mechanic (in the case of retribution it was the mana bar) but they're ok with it for rogue?

If any of my friends go HAT spec, I will spork out their eyes.

Yeah rogue DPS is haaaard.

So you mean juggling 2-3 timers and using abilities is supposed to be hard?

Man, my DK must be harder than I thought.

The problem I always had as subtlety rogue is you lose dps taking the time to get yourself in the right position to start off your super attacks. Yea those big ambushes look great, too bad everybody else has done double that in normal attacks while you were hidden walking around to the back of the enemy. And in PVP there are so many AE's going off any more hard to get those good stealth attacks alot of times (especially WG).

I still like to play around with sub once in awhile, mainly when I get bored.
I find sub to be a lot of fun but just not that practical for anything serious (especially with my gear)

Also... why is everyone an admin?

At least half the time I'm on the boss with a tricks to the tank before the tank even gets to them =P Nothing like starting early.

What point? That DKs have a few buttons more to push during a fight? Besides, if you after two posts didn't get the message that I didn't think Rogue DPS was hard, I very much doubt you're in the position to call anyone a ******. The point I personally made, was that Muti dps was not only the one Rogue specc that required more than facerolling, but out of four dps classes it was the class that took most care in playing.

The thing is, Theo, no matter how you twist and turn raiding, there's no real challenge in it. There's no real difficulty in any current encounter in WoW. There's only degrees of work between the different classes. So enjoy your DK. You're still no more of a "skilled player" than the HAT Rogues. They just chose a simpler tool for the job.

Heh, true. Then again, that just proves my point. Right now, PvE content consists just of gearchecks, not player skillchecks.

After watching new players/bad players fail at the hegian dance for 10 weeks straight, I'd argue that there is a skill check involved with raiding =P

Staying out of fire is hard, after all.

Rofl. We've killed him all 10 weeks.. and KT.. and 2drake/maly.. it's just the same 5 people die EVERY F!$#!@#$@#CUN.TING WEEK TO EVERY FIRE THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE IN THE GAME and they are still brought to raids. You can tell I'm okay with the idea.

I'd have gquit ages ago but I'm top dkp and want a sinister revenge.