Which spec is best - a consideration.Follow

With the right gear, yes. But...

At 200 iLevel or before Unholy tends to provide better output (which I believe the quoted author noted in his reply but is not represented here). Well, but... Unless you gear for more crit (and Expertise/hit) in which case Frost can outperform both deep builds. Also, mixed 32/39 can do better than all three "deep" trees when comparing all-bosses averages. Hmmm.... not such an easy question to answer after all.

My point being that overarching statements like the quoted are too simplistic to be taken as gospel. Each spec has advantages and disadvantages, and interplays with stats from gear differently. Not to mention that some players will take to certain playstyles more easily and others to, well, others. Until you actually see your numbers from raiding parses it's hard to know what will provide the highest output for you and your gear. Only generalizations and guesses can come from theory.

Best advice is to try each spec in a full raid, run WWS and see how it goes. My start point for running math on builds is the all-bosses average from a regular Naxx farm run which gives me a solid benchmark with known variables. From there I can usually get a decent comparison to other builds that I've tried on other runs. Barring the ability to get reliable, regular numbers from raiding you can use target dummies with some caveats: Stats scale with full raid buffs but not all scaling is equal. Blood and Unholy in particular scale differently with Kings/Mark/etc. Be cautious when comparing dummy numbers to raid numbers between builds and try to compensate for the difference in your guess-timations. Target dummies don't move. But you, my friends, will have to. Resulting in loss of uptime on target and missed rotations which drops DPS a bit. This is the primary reason why using an all-bosses parse is better. You might have to do something else. Yes it's true, for some encounters you may be asked to off-tank (Horsemen anyone?) which, of course, destroys your DPS. Just remember these points when comparing target dummy numbers and that should save you a ton of "but, but, on the dummy I did 525% more damage as this spec" kind of things.

All of the specifics of the builds will of course change in a couple of weeks with 3.1+, but the idea that there is always a top DPS build without regard to the variables involved tends to get under my skin and should be expunged from our discussions in my humble opinion. Stats and builds and player skill all inter-relate to provide the final output. While there will always be a theoretical "best" when given a specific set of variables, that does not mean that it's always the best for every single player in every single possible gear set up.

To regular posters, this is not new but we need to keep the above in mind when responding to new players. To those of you brand-spankin' new to the forum and/or the class, please see above.

Thank you for tolerating my rant and wall of text. On-topic discussion, as always, is encouraged.

Good luck and here's to phat lootz!

Thanks for taking it personally and for not bothering to read the note:

"which I believe the quoted author noted in his reply but is not represented here"

This post was not directed specifically at you even though your ego seems to believe it was. Also thanks for the down-rate. I take it as a compliment from you. Untwist your panties and take a breather.

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The post is directed at the large number of posts regarding "the best spec" which are found in several of the class forums, including here, and to our often summary (and therefor inaccurate) responses to them. I'm hoping, albeit with no expectation of success, that we can start posting with more clear and level-headed answers so that newer players won't be burdened with the cliff notes version of how to be better in their game. Yes, short answers are often correct but they are only correct within a certain set of circumstances which newer players/posters will not be aware of. And this can set them up for fail. That is what I'm hoping to warn against.

I guess no good deed goes unpunished. =(

Thanks for the above. I think we just had a misunderstanding, no worries. =)

Now let's hope that the next bunch of new posters looking to beat out the mages in OS10 will do more than ask "wut spec for deeps?"

C'mon guys, laugh!

I'm fairly new with DKs and I just have a couple of general questions.

I'm constantly hearing that a deep blood spec is only good with "above average" gear. So, for a level 65 such as myself, if I am outfitted in mostly blues and I take the time to gear-up decently as I level, would unholy still be a better spec until I'm 80?

I've been reading various forums and this one seemed like the best one to post my question as of now. Any advice and/or comments are appreciated.

What you're hearing about is probably the disease-less Blood raid spec which is excellent with top of the line gear (iLevel 213+).

For leveling every single one of my tests (2 toons in beta and my live-server DK) showed only nominal difference in the three "deep" builds for questing. Feel free to respec to whatever you find interesting, try out every talent if you please. You do not need to optimize to level your DK and have fun doing it.

This is an important thing that I'd like to emphasize: You do not need "the best raid spec" to level. If anything you want efficiency in a leveling spec. Talents that make questing easier and/or help make you more self-sufficient are great for leveling but often a complete waste for raiding.

Cheers.