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Best Raiding SpecFollow

#1 Mar 25 2009 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
I am currently raiding in a modest but sucessful guild clearing all WOTLK minus 25 EOE. I have tried a few specs and find that all are sub par to other's that can replace me.

For example:
Enhancement would be replaced by one of the many DK's, warriors too :(
Elemental would be replaced by mages, locks, well any range dps does similar if not better dps :(
Resto would be easily replaced by a tree and priests can basically do it all too :(

As i see it any of those could add the same if not more to a raid then i can. I dont have anything to offer that the raid can't get elsewhere.

I am well geared so thats not the issue but i was wondering which spec offers the most to a raid? More importantly, and i understand that this is speculation, which spec will be best in Ulduar? I read about the gear in there and notice that most is MP5 orintated, which leaves me to believe that healers are in more demand. But i've also heard that some guilds only take a resto shaman if they need an extra healer and that it isnt a typical designated healer for raids. Should i work to a specific spec or just scrap it and get working on one of my many alts?

If im only going for heroism/blood lust i'd rather not go.
#2 Mar 25 2009 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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2,101 posts
Staesn wrote:
If im only going for heroism/blood lust i'd rather not go.


So to shorten up your post, basically what you want to know is, which spec will make me top meters?

Edit: Most classes have been homogenized to where multiple classes can bring the same thing to the table. Blizz has made a pretty clear stance on "bring the player not the class". So, aside from bloodlust/heroism and the versatility of totems, you are pretty much right there with the rest of the DPS and healing classes.

Side note: kind of silly, but you bring to the table that your the only spell casting class that wears mail(if you go elemental or resto, if you go enhance you just ***** some hunters, no biggie). So you will bring less competition for other classes for gear rolls. That's something isn't it.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 3:03pm by SynnTastic
#3 Mar 25 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
No on the contrary! I don’t need to be on the top of the charts to be appreciated, in fact choosing to be a hybrid class I knew I wouldn’t be the best at any one job but with that being said I didn’t think that I would get squeezed out of a raid spot when at my best (as far as gear) I am not able to pull my weight anymore. Im asking what the best raid spec is so that when Ulduar comes out I can still best help my guild. If that means leveling up an alt ASAP and being more of an asset that way then that’s what I’ll prolly do. I was just noticing that current builds of all three shaman specs are not able to secure a spot as easily as the other hybrid classes. Prot Pallys and Boomkins specifically are very useful in raids.
#4 Mar 25 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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2,101 posts
Don't know what to tell you mate. Everything I have seen leans far more on player inadequacies rather than class inadequacies.

I'm not accusing you of being a poor player, so before flying off the handle let me explain.

I could see this being a concern if you were in a hardcore raiding guild, where you were min/maxxing trying to get the best possible set-up for ulduar having cleared all the content and achievements. But, you guys haven't cleared EoE 25 yet, so it shouldn't be much of a min/max case.

Which makes me suspect that, you are probably having problems with that fight. Most peoples initial reaction to a fight like that, when they can't clear it is that the DPS is too low, we need to replace DPS. I mean the fight has a hard enrage, so low DPS must be the reason why we are hitting the enrage timer right? Meanwhile, the real cause of your raid not being able to down Maly is that you aren't properly stacking sparks, which results in being in phase 1 too long. But blaming people with low DPS is much easier, since there is a visual after the fight. But in the end I am just guessing at potential issues, it could be you, it could be your gear, it could be anything, like poorly placed blame.

Only thing we can do is look at your armory, tell you where to improve. If you aren't able to pull your weight, it could very well be you or your gear, or you may be absolutely fine, and some things are just going wrong with the raid and you are the target of frustration. I've never seen a shaman(elemental or enhance) not able to pull their weight against equally skilled, equally geared players. That isn't to say I haven't seen other classes and players beat them on the meters, but I've never seen them so far out of the running for the top to make it noticeable.



Edited, Mar 25th 2009 4:55pm by SynnTastic
#5 Mar 25 2009 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Side note: kind of silly, but you bring to the table that you’re the only spell casting class that wears mail (if you go elemental or resto, if you go enhance you just ***** some hunters, no biggie). So you will bring less competition for other classes for gear rolls. That's something isn't it?


That’s what is getting me in trouble in the first place. We got 10 naxx on farm and I keep getting off spec gear. We have one other raiding shaman and we basically got about half of the off spec gear from 25 naxx now too. Except for the melee set I have two full raiding sets.

I was an elemental shaman since 70 and one weekend last month I was politely asked to respec for a 10 naxx run. I did so and was shocked and a bit saddens to find out that gear score websites ranked my "off spec" set higher then my dps set.

Looking ahead to Ulduar and a chance to correct that I was disappointed to find out that I didn’t see enough range dps gear compared the mp5 type gear that is available aside from tier gear. That made me think that speccing and being a healer would be best.

But also today I read that many guilds are opting for a balance of healers excluding shamans. That makes me a sad panda. So that’s how I came up with the question What is the best raiding spec for shamans?

p.s. I noticed that when I looked at your profile you don not have a shaman listed on ZAM, if you do that’s cool. I was just wondering what credentials you have to speak upon shamans.
#6 Mar 25 2009 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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1,162 posts
Quote:
I've never seen a shaman(elemental or enhance) not able to pull their weight against equally skilled, equally geared players. That isn't to say I haven't seen other classes and players beat them on the meters, but I've never seen them so far out of the running for the top to make it noticeable.



Absolutely right.

As elemental, you should be close to the other DPS. Maybe you won't be topping the charts but you shouldn't be more than a few hundred DPS behind the others which shouldn't make a big difference in the long run.

For resto, healer are always in high demand and resto shaman are pretty good raid healer so a raid should always have a spot for you as resto.

Can't really comment on enhancement since I never raid with that spec.


Edit to add: I've noticed a trend lately with elemental shaman. They seem to think that hit rating is a melee stats exclusively. If you are not hit cap, it might be the reason why you are far behind in DPS. We had another ele shaman in our naxx10 last week, in T7.5, way better geared than me but he was 1.5k DPS behind. His hit rating was 34.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 4:01pm by feelz
#7 Mar 25 2009 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
There are many reasons we haven’t downed Maly in 25 man and the largest issue is having 25 geared raiders. I am not on of them. I check out websites and look for upgrades, as I said it’s not my gear that’s slowing me down.
Its not that I can't do dps either, last night in three wings of heroic naxx I was over 3k dps overall for the whole night. What I was noticing is that a few months ago when I was over geared compared to our guild I was one of the top 3 dps consistently. Now I’ve dipped to 9th or so. I only see myself slipping more do to others getting geared beyond what any elemental shaman can do. That’s what got me thinking of going at it as a healer. Well I spend a few days reading about Resto shamans to know what I would be getting myself into and it sounds like they are the least needed healer.
Im sorry if this is turning into an argument, its not intended to be and I value your input as I would any one else but what I really want to know is if anyone thinks a shaman spec is better then the other for raids. If they are as I see it will reroll my priest or mage and deal with retiring my shaman till a later date.
#8 Mar 25 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
I've noticed a trend lately with elemental shaman. They seem to think that hit rating is a melee stats exclusively. If you are not hit cap, it might be the reason why you are far behind in DPS. We had another ele shaman in our naxx10 last week, in T7.5, way better geared than me but he was 1.5k DPS behind. His hit rating was 34.


My outdated sig states that I have the required 263 for 25 man content, but in situations where there is no spriest or boomkin to add the 3% I have trinkets so supplement the necessary hit to stay capped.

I made that mistake earlier though, went into my first 10 naxx as a pug with a friends guild and one guy whispered me what my hit was at... my response was "what’s that" I humbly admit to not knowing all and that’s why im here on the boards trying to learn more. Two days after that I learned my hit cap, trained my roommates in it and also sponsored my guild, through my Jewelcrafting, in +16 hit gems to make sure others were capped also.
#9 Mar 25 2009 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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2,101 posts
Staesn wrote:

p.s. I noticed that when I looked at your profile you don not have a shaman listed on ZAM, if you do that’s cool. I was just wondering what credentials you have to speak upon shamans.


No worries, my shaman is elemental. Hasn't gone Naxx 25 yet(actually only cleared Naxx 10 once with her), rarely get to play with her actually, since my main is a priest, and well ya know, healers.. high demand... yada, we need you, yada, LFHeals, yada...

I raid on a regular basis with an elemental shaman, who does really well, constantly in the top 4. Then I also run with another enhance shaman, who kind of sucks and well usually sits at the bottom.

From time to time we bring in an elemental shaman who always tops the charts with pretty staggering numbers. It has a lot to do with gear differences and player skill though. The enhance that sucks is just as geared as the elemental that performs well, he just sucks. The one that performs outstanding has both great gear and is a great player so naturally he performs better.

I've also ran a few pugs on my shaman who had some enhancement shamans that had pretty good numbers. Mine, I'm disappointed in personally, but it's a gear issue, I can only do so much. I put out about 2.8k dps, which isn't much, but I suspect with some more Naxx 10/25 gear she will get to where I want her to be. Here she is.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 4:47pm by SynnTastic
#10 Mar 25 2009 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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2,396 posts
Let's get back to the original topic at hand:

Staesn wrote:
I have tried a few specs and find that all are sub par to other's that can replace me.

For example:
Enhancement would be replaced by one of the many DK's, warriors too :(
Elemental would be replaced by mages, locks, well any range dps does similar if not better dps :(
Resto would be easily replaced by a tree and priests can basically do it all too :(

As i see it any of those could add the same if not more to a raid then i can. I dont have anything to offer that the raid can't get elsewhere.

I am well geared so thats not the issue but i was wondering which spec offers the most to a raid?

Should i work to a specific spec or just scrap it and get working on one of my many alts?

If im only going for heroism/blood lust i'd rather not go.

SynnTastic seems to be dancing all around the answer but unless I missed it he never just came right out with it and you don't quite seem to be picking up on his subtle hints, so here it is: there is no spec of Shaman, not even Resto, that is going to guarantee you a raid slot.

Blizzard's mantra since WotLK has been "bring the player, not the class". In that they've been fairly successful. There are very, very few things that any one class can bring that another can not. In fact, Shaman actually have one of those very rare things in Heroism/Bloodlust.

The bottom line is, switching specs is not going to guarantee you a raid slot. Switching classes won't either, so I don't recommend you go do that either. There is no where else you can go that is going to make you a unique and beautiful snowflake. The only things that are going to decide whether or not you attend a raid beyond your guild's commitment to you is the role that is needed (I.E. healer, DPS, or tank), and the quality of play you are capable of exhibiting within that role.

If you want to really distinguish yourself, I would recommend nothing more than polishing your skills.
#11 Mar 25 2009 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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514 posts
My guild had cleared EoE25, and almost OS2D (got both drakes down but wipe due to accident,.. sigh)

Top healers used to be some uber pallies. But a resto shaman overtook them (and made them overheal a lot) when he swapped all his gems to +haste :)

I'm Ele, ... almost never the top DPS, but consistently amongst the top 10.
I don't mind being the heroism bot :P I just make sure I pull my own weight in all the raids, throwing heals when neccessary, etc.

Also, my guild recently got an enh shaman as well. Melee DPS went up a notch becoz of him (I belief it's the WF totem).

We are very useful to bring along, especially in 25m content. (1 of each spec would be ideal IMO)
#12 Mar 26 2009 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
Thank you for your comments. I appreciate the comments, altho it hasn't cleared up my situation. I guess I will stay pat and see what Ulduar brings. I can always feel good about having two epic sets of gear and knowing that I will own dual-spec and only improve my versatility :)
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