I really don't like that idea, because it makes it takes so much of the game away from regular players.
For one, getting to and killing the pirate king should be a herculean effort. Getting to him and fighting him should be a massive undertaking in and of itself. And the more I think about it, the less I like the idea of the King being the kind of fight where you take 5-10 people against. His officers should be those sorts of fights, where the hardcore players get to take pressure off of the town by affecting the chain of command.
But no small group of players should have the means or capability to promptly end the event, or to milk the event for secret content only they get to have. If the server is going to try and down the Pirate King, it should be the kind of event the server really invests in. He should be more like a world boss, who can wipe the floor with a 40 man raid of even the best players if they aren't playing at their very best. He should be the kind of boss where everyone hears about him going down and think "DAAAAAAAAMN."
I wouldn't make him a world event in the sense of every single player being able to fight on equal footing, by incredibly buffs, like you sometimes see. Would I would do is make it a group effort with regards to the entire scenario.
-To have a chance of defeating the Pirate King, you need to take out his officers, so they can't offer him assistance. And they'll have a respawn timer, so they'll all need to be taken out within, say, 1-2 days.
-To have a chance of defeating the Pirate King, you need to cut the avenues of support from his troops, both in the waterways and on land, which means capturing and holding key locations while the King fight is happening. And to make it interesting, the King will issue different orders to try and circumvent this issue, meaning the more casual players manning those stations need to react.
-To have a chance of defeating the Pirate King, you need a big group of the best players around. The kind of players who can walk into an encounter with some randomized mechanics and abilities and potentially survive and win.
-These lesser tasks obviously can't just mean stationing one level capped player there and knowing it'll turn out well. They should level scale and be appropriately difficult for anyone involved.*
*The other side of this is that, should you get 100 people at each point, they shouldn't be difficult to hold. Because it means that the server is overwhelmingly deciding to support this town, instead of dealing with some other event going on. Essentially, they are trading worse scenarios everywhere else to get a better scenario here.
And the point is that the Pirate King is supposed to represent a massive achievement. Defeating him is like downing heroic Lich King. Because downing the Pirate King actually has an effect on the rest of the world. The point is for the good guys to never come out on top. Sometimes, they just manage to defend the village. Sometimes, the village gets razed. And sometimes they actually take off the dragon's head.
The point of this world is that everything needs to gain value because you can't do it all. Choosing to spend the effort to take down the Pirate King might mean you're sacrificing some northern villages to their new Dragon tyrant. It might mean the players of your server don't care that Centaurs are gaining ground in the southern desert.
It should be a game of survival. You pick what you care about, and you fight for it. But you don't save the world. Or at least, you only save the world when it's a massive, server-wide scenario.
I'm flat-out tired of games where you get to wrap everything up with a bow, and where hardcore players are always the ones to do it. I'm fine with hardcore players getting more to do, but it still needs to be challenging, and they can't hold the world in the palm of their hand anymore. It just isn't fun for the 95% of casual or non-capped players who will never get to be included in that stuff. And that will kill any MMO.
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#23227
Aug 03 2013 at 11:49 AM
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#23228
Aug 03 2013 at 11:59 AM
I get your point but the last MMO that tried to do something else (GW2) failed massively because people overwhelmingly want some sort of progress when they reach level cap and not having progress means the game gets flat and boring very fast.
And yeah, maybe it kinda sucks that the very hardcore players get to do stuff other people won't but that's the nature of an MMO.
Edit: and I'm convinced that the more people you need in a fight the less fun it will be so I am vehemently against 100+ people raids/fights because they have to more or less cater to the lowest common denominator to work and that sucks *** for anyone with above average skills.
Edit2: Also, there are no "regular" players. The player base will be a bell curve of sorts but taking away something to do for the high end of that bell curve solves nothing, it just results in boredom for more people because there is no longer anything to strive for and people will still whine about not being able to do anything until everyone can do everything and 99% of the player base is bored *********
Edited, Aug 3rd 2013 8:04pm by Aethien
And yeah, maybe it kinda sucks that the very hardcore players get to do stuff other people won't but that's the nature of an MMO.
Edit: and I'm convinced that the more people you need in a fight the less fun it will be so I am vehemently against 100+ people raids/fights because they have to more or less cater to the lowest common denominator to work and that sucks *** for anyone with above average skills.
Edit2: Also, there are no "regular" players. The player base will be a bell curve of sorts but taking away something to do for the high end of that bell curve solves nothing, it just results in boredom for more people because there is no longer anything to strive for and people will still whine about not being able to do anything until everyone can do everything and 99% of the player base is bored *********
Edited, Aug 3rd 2013 8:04pm by Aethien
#23229
Aug 03 2013 at 12:11 PM
Look at it this way, say there are 5 event levels.
1. Localized events, like new nests of creatures, the development of a new militant group, etc. These are the kinds of events that are essentially the bread and butter content for people still "leveling," meaning people still in the early stages of leveling, unlocking classes, learning the game, etc. Most events will actually spawn at this level and, if they aren't consistently taken care of, they will grow into much larger problems. These can also involve player tasks, like clearing space for a new camp.
2. "Zone" events, like Centaur incursions into the area form a new group. Events may spawn at this level, but most actually evolve out of local events. That militant group gains power in the region, and starts looking more like something akin to the Defias, for instance. That nest of monsters seeds new nests, and they start becoming a significant threat, particularly if they are intelligent. And with player events, maybe that camp is experiencing growing pains, or attracting unwanted attention.
3. Regional Events, like when Centaur control is significant enough they now control a wide swathe of the map, and their numbers desperately need culling.
4. World Events, like when that Centaur group is now so powerful they can invade/assault the local city.
5. Epic Events, like when that Centaur group has successfully grown so powerful they organize with other powerful beast groups all over and initiate a world war.
These would be inversely common, and there's more influences going on here than just moving up the ranks.
Say a localized event is that players are dealing with goblins, but that zone isn't seeing as much traffic anymore. Well, those goblins are now organizing into a stronger organization, and are now established as a zone event. Players manage to reliably take down one of their bases, and keep it down, but overall the organization grows stronger, and they transform into a regional event, seeping into the zones where the players haven't managed to reliably control access (allowing player efforts to shape the conflict). Now they're a regional event. As they continue to grow stronger, because everyone is so interested in the pirate event in the North, they rapidly approach a world event and seize the less fortified bases in their respective towns, and assault the nearest major city (if there is one), or the major villages/whatever.
Now, they are having a significant impact on the world economy and experience. What were once "lowbie" zones, are now filled with higher level, organized mobs and patrols. The closer you get to controlled territory, even within the map, the lower the enemy difficulty goes.
Now say one of those assaulted bases is the equivalent of Booty Bay, and the other is... whatever that fort near the gate to Outland is. Players are so used to not using the gate, that they end up focusing their attention on saving Booty Bay, and they manage it. And maybe they even kill the Goblin sub-Chieftain. But Goblins have still taken control of the gate to Outland, and they are expanding into that territory, through the gate, and effectively cutting supplies to the entire continent. And the Goblin Chieftain is deeply angry about losing Booty Bay, so the chances of another invasion into that town later is more likely, because his overall power wasn't diminished enough, so you'll see more aggressive goblin action in that area from then on. Furthermore, their successes might spark uprisings of other beastmen/goblins around the world, allowing for the super rapid expansion of level 1 events to level 3.
I think the constant change in zone levels is important for keeping the world fluid, and I think even the hardcore players need to be forced to make serious decisions of what they want to work for.
1. Localized events, like new nests of creatures, the development of a new militant group, etc. These are the kinds of events that are essentially the bread and butter content for people still "leveling," meaning people still in the early stages of leveling, unlocking classes, learning the game, etc. Most events will actually spawn at this level and, if they aren't consistently taken care of, they will grow into much larger problems. These can also involve player tasks, like clearing space for a new camp.
2. "Zone" events, like Centaur incursions into the area form a new group. Events may spawn at this level, but most actually evolve out of local events. That militant group gains power in the region, and starts looking more like something akin to the Defias, for instance. That nest of monsters seeds new nests, and they start becoming a significant threat, particularly if they are intelligent. And with player events, maybe that camp is experiencing growing pains, or attracting unwanted attention.
3. Regional Events, like when Centaur control is significant enough they now control a wide swathe of the map, and their numbers desperately need culling.
4. World Events, like when that Centaur group is now so powerful they can invade/assault the local city.
5. Epic Events, like when that Centaur group has successfully grown so powerful they organize with other powerful beast groups all over and initiate a world war.
These would be inversely common, and there's more influences going on here than just moving up the ranks.
Say a localized event is that players are dealing with goblins, but that zone isn't seeing as much traffic anymore. Well, those goblins are now organizing into a stronger organization, and are now established as a zone event. Players manage to reliably take down one of their bases, and keep it down, but overall the organization grows stronger, and they transform into a regional event, seeping into the zones where the players haven't managed to reliably control access (allowing player efforts to shape the conflict). Now they're a regional event. As they continue to grow stronger, because everyone is so interested in the pirate event in the North, they rapidly approach a world event and seize the less fortified bases in their respective towns, and assault the nearest major city (if there is one), or the major villages/whatever.
Now, they are having a significant impact on the world economy and experience. What were once "lowbie" zones, are now filled with higher level, organized mobs and patrols. The closer you get to controlled territory, even within the map, the lower the enemy difficulty goes.
Now say one of those assaulted bases is the equivalent of Booty Bay, and the other is... whatever that fort near the gate to Outland is. Players are so used to not using the gate, that they end up focusing their attention on saving Booty Bay, and they manage it. And maybe they even kill the Goblin sub-Chieftain. But Goblins have still taken control of the gate to Outland, and they are expanding into that territory, through the gate, and effectively cutting supplies to the entire continent. And the Goblin Chieftain is deeply angry about losing Booty Bay, so the chances of another invasion into that town later is more likely, because his overall power wasn't diminished enough, so you'll see more aggressive goblin action in that area from then on. Furthermore, their successes might spark uprisings of other beastmen/goblins around the world, allowing for the super rapid expansion of level 1 events to level 3.
I think the constant change in zone levels is important for keeping the world fluid, and I think even the hardcore players need to be forced to make serious decisions of what they want to work for.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#23230
Aug 03 2013 at 12:17 PM
Quote:
I get your point but the last MMO that tried to do something else (GW2) failed massively because people overwhelmingly want some sort of progress when they reach level cap and not having progress means the game gets flat and boring very fast.
And yeah, maybe it kinda sucks that the very hardcore players get to do stuff other people won't but that's the nature of an MMO.
Edit: and I'm convinced that the more people you need in a fight the less fun it will be so I am vehemently against 100+ people raids/fights because they have to more or less cater to the lowest common denominator to work and that sucks *** for anyone with above average skills.
Edit2: Also, there are no "regular" players. The player base will be a bell curve of sorts but taking away something to do for the high end of that bell curve solves nothing, it just results in boredom for more people because there is no longer anything to strive for and people will still whine about not being able to do anything until everyone can do everything and 99% of the player base is bored sh*tless.
And yeah, maybe it kinda sucks that the very hardcore players get to do stuff other people won't but that's the nature of an MMO.
Edit: and I'm convinced that the more people you need in a fight the less fun it will be so I am vehemently against 100+ people raids/fights because they have to more or less cater to the lowest common denominator to work and that sucks *** for anyone with above average skills.
Edit2: Also, there are no "regular" players. The player base will be a bell curve of sorts but taking away something to do for the high end of that bell curve solves nothing, it just results in boredom for more people because there is no longer anything to strive for and people will still whine about not being able to do anything until everyone can do everything and 99% of the player base is bored sh*tless.
You only need to cater to the least skilled if your intention is for players to actually clear that content. I think that's where you and I have a disconnect. I am reveling in the idea of a world where the boss often wins, because the players failed to bring him down. And I think that's fine, as long as they still win in the end. Games have been doing a lot with storytelling to try and instill the idea of not winning every battle to win the war, and I think it's time we actually allowed for content that matched that. As long as the players still get something out of it, losing the battle doesn't mean wasting time.
I want a game where downing the super powerful boss is actually rare.
And the biggest problem with GW2 is that the world isn't actually fluid or dynamic. Besides playing with friends, there's never a good reason for you to be handling events in lower leveled zones. So no one cares if those zones get seized by centaurs.
If getting seized by centaurs actually turns that zone into a high-level one, however, and creates a meaningful reason for players to not want them to expand further (perhaps because those centaurs are two zones from your capital), then there's a lot of reason for them to want to take that group down.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#23231
Aug 03 2013 at 12:30 PM
Yeah, except players want to feel an accomplishment so they want to win and content will inevitably get nerfed until it caters to the lowest common denominator. That's why I would like to see separate paths/quests for smaller groups. Well that and the fact that that way you'd actually be playing with people instead of haphazardly trying to cooperate in a massive group with 74 self proclaimed "leaders" shouting conflicting commands that nobody listens to.
Hell, it could coexist with the giant world bosses for all I care. As long as there is something challenging for small, well organized groups.
What I'm saying is not something I'd want to see instead of what you are talking about but alongside the large changing world.
Hell, it could coexist with the giant world bosses for all I care. As long as there is something challenging for small, well organized groups.
What I'm saying is not something I'd want to see instead of what you are talking about but alongside the large changing world.
#23232
Aug 03 2013 at 12:40 PM
The problem is that what you're suggesting just isn't going to be compatible with an actual dynamic world. The whole point of a dynamic world is to create a game that actually changes.
Take away players failing, and you now have WoW. Or TOR. Or any other game where encounters are scripted. It's not dynamic, and it's not interesting.
Players want to feel accomplishment, sure. But that doesn't mean that you have to down the Pirate King to feel that way. If you save the town, if you are personally challenged the entire town, if you get rewards and new content opens up because of your effort, is that not going to feel really sweet?
Personally, I think that would feel a lot better than having the King go down every single time an event like that occurs. I think the few times I assist in an event (or actually fight) that actually takes down one of the strongest bosses in the game, it would feel really freaking good. Way better than anything I've felt in another game. Because in this game, it would actually be an accomplishment.
And the world being dynamic also means that there CAN be a day where I actually end the pirate empire once and for all. If their empire reaches epic event status, then it is now time to throw down, and possibly fracture their organization so significantly that they crumble from within and leave a void for new baddies to feel.
That feels like real, worthwhile progression to me. That feels like a world in which I'm always getting better, always making a difference, and never just rerunning content because I'm bored and that's all there is to do.
Take away players failing, and you now have WoW. Or TOR. Or any other game where encounters are scripted. It's not dynamic, and it's not interesting.
Players want to feel accomplishment, sure. But that doesn't mean that you have to down the Pirate King to feel that way. If you save the town, if you are personally challenged the entire town, if you get rewards and new content opens up because of your effort, is that not going to feel really sweet?
Personally, I think that would feel a lot better than having the King go down every single time an event like that occurs. I think the few times I assist in an event (or actually fight) that actually takes down one of the strongest bosses in the game, it would feel really freaking good. Way better than anything I've felt in another game. Because in this game, it would actually be an accomplishment.
And the world being dynamic also means that there CAN be a day where I actually end the pirate empire once and for all. If their empire reaches epic event status, then it is now time to throw down, and possibly fracture their organization so significantly that they crumble from within and leave a void for new baddies to feel.
That feels like real, worthwhile progression to me. That feels like a world in which I'm always getting better, always making a difference, and never just rerunning content because I'm bored and that's all there is to do.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#23233
Aug 03 2013 at 1:21 PM
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Players want to feel accomplishment, sure. But that doesn't mean that you have to down the Pirate King to feel that way. If you save the town, if you are personally challenged the entire town, if you get rewards and new content opens up because of your effort, is that not going to feel really sweet?
There is simply a giant, grand canyon sized gap in skill between your average player and the skilled hardcore players and if only the hardcore players are able to beat the worldwide/epic threats the rest will start to whine until they, too, can do that but if everyone can beat the biggest baddest bosses then half or more of the gaming population will get bored very quickly. And I think that the first MMO that comes up with a solution that works for both parties is going to be the next big thing in MMO land.
#23234
Aug 03 2013 at 1:53 PM
The point is that the hardcore players can't defeat the Pirate King. Not until you get a huge number of them working together.
And it's not possible for them to down the king unless the normal players have actively set it up so that they could. Meaning each individual player chooses to support the attempt, because the chances of a raid group winning (even with 200 people) would be slim to none if the King is capable of calling in reinforcements.
And it's a one-time boss event - you kill him, and that Pirate King is gone. Well, one-time victory - you can try as much as you'd like while he's actually laying siege to the city. The next Pirate King will be a completely different NPC, with a completely different set of skills (at least some of which are truly random).
Finally, if the actual character limit making the attempt is high enough, the more casual players don't need to be left out. That's sort of what GW2 is doing with their dragon fights. You get to be involved, and your biggest task is staying alive, but the largest portion of the actual killing comes from the skilled players working together and not really worrying about you. And it actually works really well for their huge events.
But the point still comes down to the fact that the raid on the pirate king will fail if the town isn't being held at the same time. Which means that the elite group can't just decide it's time to kill the PK. They need to organize a server-wide event to hold the town and kill the king.
And there's plenty they can do to make those people in the town take part. While the king is distracted, they get to roll in massive cannons and take out his ships, or board raid ships for other vessels, etc. Maybe they get their magical defense towers up and running and get to use them (think vehicles in WoW, but without the atrocious response system and control mechanisms, with rewards for killing something with them). Etc.
The problem with a game like WoW is that killing the boss is the actual content. It's where the story leads, it's what the game is about. The casual player never really gets to play in the first place.
But in a game designed without the idea that the biggest, baddest boss around isn't the endgame goal, and beating him is super unrealistic in the first place, they don't care. No one has cared that they weren't strong enough to kill random world bosses in any game I've ever played. People care that they don't get to access the actual content.
I think you need to stop zooming in on the boss, and take a step back to think about the actual picture of the content. You're automatically assuming that all hardcore players will be focused on the boss. That's because that's how most MMOs work now.
The reality of what I'm picturing is that they're facing plenty of challenges way earlier in the content system where they actually see the boss as a massive undertaking of legitimately epic proportions, where they're damn proud to have managed to recapture a district of the city that looked lost, where even ending the siege in the first place, rather than losing the town, is worth celebrating.
Because that's the point. You can actually lose the town. When there's tangible risk, success gains actual value.
In every single MMO out there right now, there's no risk. At all. The worst case scenario is that you have to try again. This MMO is fundamentally different by introducing the fact that failing to protect something can actually end up with it destroyed. And that's a fundamental shift, and it needs to be considered when you look at what gives something like a raid boss its value.
And it's not possible for them to down the king unless the normal players have actively set it up so that they could. Meaning each individual player chooses to support the attempt, because the chances of a raid group winning (even with 200 people) would be slim to none if the King is capable of calling in reinforcements.
And it's a one-time boss event - you kill him, and that Pirate King is gone. Well, one-time victory - you can try as much as you'd like while he's actually laying siege to the city. The next Pirate King will be a completely different NPC, with a completely different set of skills (at least some of which are truly random).
Finally, if the actual character limit making the attempt is high enough, the more casual players don't need to be left out. That's sort of what GW2 is doing with their dragon fights. You get to be involved, and your biggest task is staying alive, but the largest portion of the actual killing comes from the skilled players working together and not really worrying about you. And it actually works really well for their huge events.
But the point still comes down to the fact that the raid on the pirate king will fail if the town isn't being held at the same time. Which means that the elite group can't just decide it's time to kill the PK. They need to organize a server-wide event to hold the town and kill the king.
And there's plenty they can do to make those people in the town take part. While the king is distracted, they get to roll in massive cannons and take out his ships, or board raid ships for other vessels, etc. Maybe they get their magical defense towers up and running and get to use them (think vehicles in WoW, but without the atrocious response system and control mechanisms, with rewards for killing something with them). Etc.
The problem with a game like WoW is that killing the boss is the actual content. It's where the story leads, it's what the game is about. The casual player never really gets to play in the first place.
But in a game designed without the idea that the biggest, baddest boss around isn't the endgame goal, and beating him is super unrealistic in the first place, they don't care. No one has cared that they weren't strong enough to kill random world bosses in any game I've ever played. People care that they don't get to access the actual content.
I think you need to stop zooming in on the boss, and take a step back to think about the actual picture of the content. You're automatically assuming that all hardcore players will be focused on the boss. That's because that's how most MMOs work now.
The reality of what I'm picturing is that they're facing plenty of challenges way earlier in the content system where they actually see the boss as a massive undertaking of legitimately epic proportions, where they're damn proud to have managed to recapture a district of the city that looked lost, where even ending the siege in the first place, rather than losing the town, is worth celebrating.
Because that's the point. You can actually lose the town. When there's tangible risk, success gains actual value.
In every single MMO out there right now, there's no risk. At all. The worst case scenario is that you have to try again. This MMO is fundamentally different by introducing the fact that failing to protect something can actually end up with it destroyed. And that's a fundamental shift, and it needs to be considered when you look at what gives something like a raid boss its value.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#23235
Aug 03 2013 at 3:56 PM
Quote:
The point is that the hardcore players can't defeat the Pirate King. Not until you get a huge number of them working together.
...
Finally, if the actual character limit making the attempt is high enough, the more casual players don't need to be left out.
...
Finally, if the actual character limit making the attempt is high enough, the more casual players don't need to be left out.
Quote:
The reality of what I'm picturing is that they're facing plenty of challenges way earlier in the content system where they actually see the boss as a massive undertaking of legitimately epic proportions, where they're damn proud to have managed to recapture a district of the city that looked lost, where even ending the siege in the first place, rather than losing the town, is worth celebrating.
But then what do you do with characters that become much stronger? You can't let the content grow with them because then new people are screwed and defending the town from pirate captain A through Z isn't a whole lot of fun anymore once you get towards the end.
Basically what I'm saying is:
1: an MMO needs a way for characters to continue to progress in a meaningful way for many years.
2: an MMO needs to stimulate people playing together in some way. (as in organized playing together, not a coincidental people happen to be doing the same thing as me).
3: in an MMO you can't realistically organize large groups of people.
#23236
Aug 03 2013 at 4:23 PM
Quote:
That together is a recipe for terrible, terrible, gameplay because it completely removes all potential difficulty in tactics and reduces each and every fight to a numbers game and nothing else (or a more or less predetermined tactic, which may as well be a numbers game). Plus such fights are about as much playing with other people as sitting in a bus is traveling with other people.
Except that IS what GW2 has done, and it hasn't been an issue at all. People who suck die, people with a modicrum of skill survive (as in, the sort of people who could survive a casual dungeon), people with skill are the ones who actually win the fight. The rewards realistically scale to how much effort you put in.
It absolutely works. And it's highly satisfying for just about everyone. The only people who don't like it are the people who demand that they get treated like gods. And, frankly, there are other MMOs they can play. They wouldn't be healthy for the health of this game in the first place, and no MMO should be designed with every player in mind.
Quote:
Basically what I'm saying is:
1: an MMO needs a way for characters to continue to progress in a meaningful way for many years.
2: an MMO needs to stimulate people playing together in some way. (as in organized playing together, not a coincidental people happen to be doing the same thing as me).
3: in an MMO you can't realistically organize large groups of people.
1: an MMO needs a way for characters to continue to progress in a meaningful way for many years.
2: an MMO needs to stimulate people playing together in some way. (as in organized playing together, not a coincidental people happen to be doing the same thing as me).
3: in an MMO you can't realistically organize large groups of people.
1. Progression requires that you can see your character grow. The actual scale of growth doesn't have to be anything like WoW has done, and there's no reason why content wouldn't scale with them. Content will absolutely get easier, but when we're talking about a boss that takes 40-80 talented players to down, then a ton of gear shouldn't mean anything more than making that 30-60.
Furtermore, the whole point of the game is dynamic change of the entire game world. Why would you be holding the power of the Pirate King as static. First of all, you're again conceptualizing the King as an enemy you'd defeat over and over again. You wouldn't. You'd defeat one King, and the next one would be entirely different. All different strategy, all different strength levels. Some kings will be weaker, some kings will be stronger. That's the point - it's not static.
Some Kings are going to be so weak that players laugh about how easy he was, and the exploratory group set to just scout out his abilities will take him down. And it'll be funny, and everyone will laugh about how weak he was to go down on the first day of his siege. And if the developers are smart, they'd add AI dialogue to that effect.
Some Kings will be so powerful that it's all you can do to keep the city from falling (if you even succeed).
Furthermore, this is an MMO with a pledged 40 classes, plus hybridization options. That alone, depending on how the skill system works, could account for a ton of progression. It's like leveling jobs in FFXI, except this time the content will actually be totally different each time you go through it. Maybe Stormwind fell and Elwyn Forest is now a 55+ zone, but Sithilus is a lowbie zone and you level your new toon by aiding the development of a recently founded trade city there. Or maybe you have a character level, and you level your class differently. Either way, you're going to always have new stuff to do - it's never going to be the same old experience.
Giant zone events have a great job of pooling people into the same central area. Add an incentive for being actually grouped, and you'll get people partying (at least that's my experience playing any MMO that has this feature now, like RIFT). Add incentives for guilds, and you'll get people together in those groups. Add meaningful, nonstop group content options for zones, and they'll use it if they don't mind being social, and they won't if they do (and that's the best you're EVER going to do).
3. There are plenty of cases of pretty massive organized events happening in WoW. Sure, they were mostly stupid events, like 400 people running naked through the Dwarven starting area to Stormwind, but it happened enough to be noteworthy. Create a meaningful way to actually get people talking to each other globally, support system to actually organize this stuff, real consequences for if they don't bother getting involved, and real bonuses if they do and succeed, and people will join up. Something as extreme as a Pirate King raid is probably going to have one or two of the most elite guilds at its core, sure.
But, again, my point is that Pirate King raids would be rare in general, and that regular content would be difficult enough that they wouldn't be what any guild has their eyes on. The raid becomes viable when you're already succeeding above and beyond what you'd expect to be managing.
It's not like the siege would start and people would ask ourselves "Okay, how do we get to the King?"
The siege starts and the best players ask "Okay, how long will the NPC forces hold out, what can we do to make that longer, and how can we keep this city from falling?"
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#23237
Aug 03 2013 at 4:41 PM
What the hell are you guys talking about now?
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
#23238
Aug 03 2013 at 4:42 PM
why can't i be the one with my group of friends to invade the town?
that to me would be more fun. especially if other players were on the side of the town.
that to me would be more fun. especially if other players were on the side of the town.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#23239
Aug 03 2013 at 4:42 PM
Mazra wrote:
What the hell are you guys talking about now?
pirates and stuff
as a side note i think some fishing and day drinking before my nap is in order
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#23240
Aug 03 2013 at 5:01 PM
Horsemouth wrote:
why can't i be the one with my group of friends to invade the town?
that to me would be more fun. especially if other players were on the side of the town.
that to me would be more fun. especially if other players were on the side of the town.
They specifically mentioned a civil war as an example of events that could completely redraw the entire map. So I'd assume it would be possible in general.
I'd be surprised if they didn't create some player factions whose cities you just could not enter peacefully.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#23241
Aug 03 2013 at 5:42 PM
Catch-up time.
The World Series has been around since 1903. Baseball was not played professionally outside the United States, and I was only three at the time so I can't say if it was played at all outside the US. So, World Series was an apt name for it at the time.
Imagine a soccer team that has the insane budget to assemble one of the best teams in the league - nothing but really expensive talent for both players and coaches.
Then imagine them having a mediocre win/loss ratio, never making it to the world cup, etc.
And you have the Mets.You missed one very important thing. The Mets consistently play great in the first month of the season, then usually from mid-July to mid-September, then they usually fold like an accordion in the final few weeks. This is important, because it isn't enough to just experience losing. As a Mets fan you must experience the embarrassment of rooting for the Mets in addition to losing. Think Charlie Brown and Lucy and the whole holding the football thing.
I used to read every word of them. Every single word. Until I finally realized it was fecking pointless SINCE YOU STEADFASTLY REFUSE TO DEVELOP AND PUBLISH A GAME!!!! 
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Also. I love how they call it the world cup with baseball when it's only American teams in the competition. It's very American.
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Mazra wrote:
I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR JOKES, BECAUSE I'M NOT FROM AMERICA!
Imagine a soccer team that has the insane budget to assemble one of the best teams in the league - nothing but really expensive talent for both players and coaches.
Then imagine them having a mediocre win/loss ratio, never making it to the world cup, etc.
And you have the Mets.
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I swear I don't set out with the intention of these things ending up so long...
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
#23242
Aug 03 2013 at 5:48 PM
Too much gbaji going on right now.
Can someone summarize the last page or so?
Can someone summarize the last page or so?
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
#23243
Aug 03 2013 at 6:26 PM
Quote:
I used to read every word of them. Every single word. Until I finally realized it was fecking pointless SINCE YOU STEADFASTLY REFUSE TO DEVELOP AND PUBLISH A GAME!!!!
Lol, if I was about 50% less apathetic, and jobs in the industry about 800% easier to come by, I would. :P
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#23244
Aug 03 2013 at 7:32 PM
Mazra wrote:
Can someone summarize the last page or so?
I got this one:
Quote:
Beer, boobs, "Here's how America and not-America are diffeent", and circlejerking
Sound about right?
#23245
Aug 04 2013 at 3:50 AM
i went day drinking . fishing
my sister and her husband n dogs showed up
then i drank more at home
the i went bar
my one friend is now engaged to a girl i introduced him to at the bar
im drunk.
my sister and her husband n dogs showed up
then i drank more at home
the i went bar
my one friend is now engaged to a girl i introduced him to at the bar
im drunk.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#23246
Aug 04 2013 at 5:45 AM
Sounds like your friend and that girl are a little drunk, too.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#23247
Aug 04 2013 at 6:42 AM
I believe the proper phrasing is:
He fell for her, hook, line, and sinker.
He fell for her, hook, line, and sinker.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
#23248
Aug 04 2013 at 10:43 AM
Should I be more shocked by the fact that an 80-year-old customer flipped me off yesterday, or by the fact that I no longer show up in the Recent Visitors tab?
Okay, maybe I do show up here...
Edited, Aug 4th 2013 9:49am by Davejohnsan
Okay, maybe I do show up here...
Edited, Aug 4th 2013 9:49am by Davejohnsan
Kaolian wrote:
After a horrific accident involving a radioactive housecat, Davejohnsan becomes “THE CAT YODALER!†By day, mild mannered veterinary supplies salesmen, but by night, daemon feline scourge of the swiss alps! Swiss cheese production falls sharply in the first quarter as lack of sleep slowly drives everyone in Switzerland insane
#23249
Aug 04 2013 at 2:40 PM
I'm usually polite to old folks, but when something like that happens, it's open season on them.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
#23251
Aug 04 2013 at 5:11 PM
they just mad cause they old
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
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