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#1827 Feb 22 2010 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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I take red and blue socket bonuses. Yellow, not so much.
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#1828 Feb 23 2010 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Finally got my 4 set bonus for my lazerchiken. I like it alot. And since I won the legs in a 25man Vaults, I was able to buy a new belt. I love my new gear :) I just need to replace my trinket now...
#1829 Feb 24 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think our guild finally found a replacement holy pally, albeit a reluctant ret. convert. Our main Pally heals got moved to the evening shift at work and can only come a couple of times a week. Now we just have to find a good DPS to take the ret pally's spot. Good news is one of our tanks wants to switch to DPS for a bit; of course then we need a new tank. However I'm about ready to take over tanking on my druid, so I can fill that gap; but first we'll need another healer to take my place. It just goes on and on.... :p

In unrelated news VoA runs make my bear happy.
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#1830 Feb 24 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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I'm officially going to **** the glyph market beyond repair.

I found out the person undercutting me like a crazed madman is in fact 3 different people playing one account. They just so happen to be the aussies that used to be in my guild before they decided to ninja the gbank and transfer off.

Let Operation: Glyph Jackhammer, commence.
#1831 Feb 24 2010 at 7:42 PM Rating: Good
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Write everything down and make a story out of it to entertain me please.





Also, feral dps is ****** up.
I'll stick to being a bear and roflstomping my way through instances. (<3 seriously.. tanking kicks ***)
#1832 Feb 25 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I'll stick to being a bear and roflstomping my way through instances. (<3 seriously.. tanking kicks ***)


Northrend instances tonight. Smiley: nod

I'm actually quite excited about this, haha.
#1833 Feb 26 2010 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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We gone done got some more raiders.

This makes me happy.

Granted we didn't kill bosses outside of the first 4 but having a more stable group makes killing new guys in the near future a certainty.

This is good as the first four guys don't drop **** for a feral tank.
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#1834 Feb 26 2010 at 5:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Distant Land(264), Frostbitten Fur Boots, 4PT9.25, Bracers of Swift Death, Sentinel's Winter Cloak.. yup the past 2 weeks have been good to me and my tanking set =D

In a 10-man best of the server pug group that's chewing our way through 9/12 in one night second week in, almost got the blood queen.. and sunday we're finishing the clear for kinslayer =D

It's been a wild ride, heh.
#1835 Feb 26 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
Since there were questions about the UO proc and uptime and such, I'll clarify a few things after using it for a week.

It only procs on melee strikes. Eating magic damage doesn't work. I forgot to look at Marrowgar and see if I was getting procs from eating Saber Lashes or not.

The proc lasts 10 sec, and has no ICD on re-procs. Long enough that as long as the boss doesn't stop swinging at you, it stays up, but I was losing it on BQ and princes because they turn and fire attacks at other people. Trash packs stack it very quickly for obvious reasons (but loltrash).

All in all it's still really nice for tanking in general and will be helpful on LK. The armor on it makes for a good fulltime EH buff (to the tune of ~2200 EH given my current stats), and if you're taking hits, you get a nice chunk of extra breathing room on top of that. If you're only really taking magic damage though (BQ mirror tank, maybe Sindragosa though I won't be swapping it out on that personally since Frost Breath is predictable and it's her melee damage I want to get down as far as possible) then you're better off with a CSK.

Thinking in terms of EH I'm not sure whether Black Heart or a CSK would be better alongside it. Black Heart wins hands down with the proc up but when you average that proc out (45 sec ICD), one has to wonder. Rawr is still telling me Black Heart though, and I'm inclined to trust it; it favors SMZ gems on all my gear so I'd expect it to put CSK up there with the higher base stamina if it didn't like the armor proc anymore.

I'm pretty sure Glyph is retired, it's not as good as either of them. It was good when T9 was king but CSK gives you a usable oh sh*t button and is better base EH.

Edited, Feb 26th 2010 10:08am by Norellicus
#1836 Feb 27 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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What's CSK and SMZ?

I'm using the Glyph of Indominability (seriously hate that word) with the Frostborn trinket from ToC10. The Frostborn is the only one I wouldn't think of replacing, since it provides much needed dodge rating (takes me from 38% to 40% or so) and has a lovely on-use armor effect. With Black Heart and Indominability running, I've got 43k armor or so.

As for the second trinket slot, I can't decide if I should go with Indominability for some passive mitigation (and another on-use, bleh) or the Black Heart for some more stamina and a sweet auto-proc. I'm currently only using Indominability because it takes me above 5k GearScore, which is sort of a requirement to tank anything above 5-man heroics these days (5.2k for Naxx10 and link achievement while you're at it!).

I feel kind of weak with this health pool, though. I have some 32k unbuffed and while I do have more dodge than most Paladins, Death Knights or Warriors going into ICC, I completely lack parry and block. The ICC aura kinda hit us Druids hard since dodge is our only avoidance stat.

I think I'll go back to using the Frostborn and Blach Heart combo, though. Gives me an additional 1200 health before talents and kings, so that's nice, plus 7k armor every once in a while.

Sucks when your favorite trinkets have low GearScore ratings.
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#1837 Feb 27 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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Why is cower so useless. I could really use a threat reduction tool that works. Tanks seem to have a lot of trouble holding threat off of me. I don't link having to back off of the mob because it seems even just white hitting I am still taking loads of threat. It's not like the tanks are not geared either. Unless its a warrior with vigilance on me then I pull threat.
#1838 Feb 27 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
What's CSK and SMZ?




Edited, Feb 27th 2010 2:59pm by Horsemouth
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#1839 Feb 27 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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The DrunkDrood of Doom wrote:
Why is cower so useless. I could really use a threat reduction tool that works. Tanks seem to have a lot of trouble holding threat off of me. I don't link having to back off of the mob because it seems even just white hitting I am still taking loads of threat. It's not like the tanks are not geared either. Unless its a warrior with vigilance on me then I pull threat.


Druids don't get innate threat reduction, do they? It's really odd. There's no threat modifier tied to Bear form, is there? We rely on out-damaging our opponents with Maul and Lacerate doing extra threat, but it's not like we do increased threat by switching into Bear form, do we?

Edit: Thanks for the links, Horse. Is the Skeleton Key really worth much? I believe I saw some stuff about it bringing basically nothing to the table, except additional health. "Great for showing off in heroics" or something like that, I think they said.

Edited, Feb 27th 2010 9:43pm by Mazra
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#1840 Feb 27 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
The DrunkDrood of Doom wrote:
Why is cower so useless. I could really use a threat reduction tool that works. Tanks seem to have a lot of trouble holding threat off of me. I don't link having to back off of the mob because it seems even just white hitting I am still taking loads of threat. It's not like the tanks are not geared either. Unless its a warrior with vigilance on me then I pull threat.


Druids don't get innate thread reduction, do they? It's really odd. There's no threat modifier tied to Bear form, is there? We rely on out-damaging our opponents with Maul and Lacerate doing extra threat, but it's not like we do increased threat by switching into Bear form, do we?

Edit: Thanks for the links, Horse. Is the Skeleton Key really worth much? I believe I saw some stuff about it bringing basically nothing to the table, except additional health. "Great for showing off in heroics" or something like that, I think they said.

Edited, Feb 27th 2010 9:15pm by Mazra


Cat form has innate threat reduction. Bear form has a threat boost.

Bear is a 1.3 multiplier, cat is ~29% reduction.
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#1841 Feb 27 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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I see. Odd that it's not mentioned in the tooltips.
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#1842 Feb 27 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
The skeleton key is great if you just need more stam. Combine the use effect with another oh sh*t button (or even by itself, it'll shave off 90% of one incoming melee hit which is often enough to get healers back on top of you) and it's not really terrible.

I'll probably pick one up for posterity's sake after I get my 4p (7 more badges!), since the only stuff I'd be buying with frost after that would be dps gear.

Edited, Feb 27th 2010 3:58pm by Norellicus
#1843 Feb 27 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
Double post, but editing my original several hours later is counterproductive for new thoughts.

Maz, the dodge nerf hit everyone equally. Nobody lost more than anybody else. Your total avoidance dropped by 20% is all, and boss damage was brought down accordingly. I hate tanking ToC/GC now because it's seriously scary to watch how fast my health fluctuates. ICC is a lot better for having the debuff and allowing easier incoming damage.

We also have block though. Savage Defense is, for all intents and purposes, a shield block, and given our crit rates will be going off about as often. It's obviously not the same mechanic because you can't be unhittable with it like you can with BV on anub adds, but for boss tanking it's the same effect.

Your health is definitely low though if you're walking in with 35k unbuffed (I'm assuming that's bear form). Look at getting more stamina gems in there if you need to, you really want to reach 50k buffed even in 10 man.
#1844 Feb 27 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Norellicus wrote:
Maz, the dodge nerf hit everyone equally. Nobody lost more than anybody else. Your total avoidance dropped by 20% is all, and boss damage was brought down accordingly. I hate tanking ToC/GC now because it's seriously scary to watch how fast my health fluctuates. ICC is a lot better for having the debuff and allowing easier incoming damage.

We also have block though. Savage Defense is, for all intents and purposes, a shield block, and given our crit rates will be going off about as often. It's obviously not the same mechanic because you can't be unhittable with it like you can with BV on anub adds, but for boss tanking it's the same effect.

Your health is definitely low though if you're walking in with 35k unbuffed (I'm assuming that's bear form). Look at getting more stamina gems in there if you need to, you really want to reach 50k buffed even in 10 man.


So I sacrifice avoidance for health now? A while ago it was the exact opposite. What good is a 50k health pool if my healers can't keep me up?

Anyway, yes, Savage Defense is somewhat a block ability, but compare it to a Paladin going in there. His dodge will probably be 0, unless he's got lots of it, but he'll still have, what, 15-20% parry chance? 40% block chance with Holy Shield up. And that little nifty Sacred Shield thing. Once that baby procs, it's like a Savage Defense with charges.

Edit: In hindsight, Death Knights are probably getting shafted worse, though. No block rating at all and no absorption thingy either. Guess I shouldn't complain.

Edited, Feb 28th 2010 5:06am by Mazra
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#1845 Feb 28 2010 at 12:44 AM Rating: Good
Speaking from pure speculation, healers aren't going to have a much easier time keeping you up when you take a string of hits from Rotface and can't dodge them because you're running away from the Unstable Ooze Explosion (which comes down too fast to backpedal out of).

Festergut with 3 inhaled blight can be pretty scary damage output too. BQ hits for 10k average. Both of these are dodgeable of course, just trying to reiterate that icecrown radiance didn't somehow make dodge more important than it was before; you still should be getting your health up first and foremost, and let the dodge carry along with it. You don't have to go overboard, I still have a lot of Shifting Dreadstones on my gear to match socket bonuses for a little extra agility, but I'm still putting Zircons in yellow and blue sockets.

Edited, Feb 28th 2010 1:57am by Norellicus
#1846 Feb 28 2010 at 4:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Overlord Norellicus wrote:
Speaking from pure speculation, healers aren't going to have a much easier time keeping you up when you take a string of hits from Rotface and can't dodge them because you're running away from the Unstable Ooze Explosion (which comes down too fast to backpedal out of).

Festergut with 3 inhaled blight can be pretty scary damage output too. BQ hits for 10k average. Both of these are dodgeable of course, just trying to reiterate that Icecrown radiance didn't somehow make dodge more important than it was before; you still should be getting your health up first and foremost, and let the dodge carry along with it. You don't have to go overboard, I still have a lot of Shifting Dreadstones on my gear to match socket bonuses for a little extra agility, but I'm still putting Zircons in yellow and blue sockets.


Here is a good read on the dodge aspect of ICC radiance. Avoidance is still strong but as Norellicus was saying you need that base HP before you can really do anything. 50k is needed in ICC, you can get away with high 40s, especially on the 1st four bosses but it really starts to matter after that point.

For gems I have a JC red in the shared weapon, Shiftings in all reds and most blues, I use 2 JC blues until I get a new weapon so I can change to 3 tank blue JC gems, and epic blues in yellow sockets. Dodge is still really good which is why I like have GoI, sexy armor plus dodge when I need it to help give some room for healers. I'll add epic Stam to blues if I feel then need beyond the JC gems. Reds will always get Shiftings just because I can and haven't really felt the HP boost would make a difference. Same logic behind a mix of JC blue, Shifting and Zircon in blue sockets.

Armor is hawt shiznit on most figths. We have *** loads of armor and Shiftings give us more armor, more crit to feed SD and threat in general. We have the option still to not gem for pure Stam and if needed Def, other tanks don't have that option beyond meta requirements.

Maz, this whole expansion beyond Naxx has been about HPs; near infinite healer mana has made it that way.
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#1847 Feb 28 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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That explains why Warriors and Paladins alike are running around with pure stamina in their gem sockets.

Guess I'll have to regem. Anyone got a spare 2k gold?
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#1848 Feb 28 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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Why is cower so useless. I could really use a threat reduction tool that works. Tanks seem to have a lot of trouble holding threat off of me. I don't link having to back off of the mob because it seems even just white hitting I am still taking loads of threat. It's not like the tanks are not geared either. Unless its a warrior with vigilance on me then I pull threat.



Not too much of an issue now in most cases. Back in early BC days, I regularly had to move away from the boss and sit down for 15-20 secs to let the tanks build a bit of a threat lead. I made sure I moved somewhere nice and visible because it really pissed the tanks off :)


#1849 Feb 28 2010 at 11:58 PM Rating: Good
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What is it with Shadow Priests? Seriously, what?

Either they're gearing up and performing sub-par to everything else or they're decked in full T10 and overaggroing everything with their Mind Sear spam crap.

It's such an off class specialization, really.
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#1850 Mar 01 2010 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Horsemouth wrote:
Here is a good read on the dodge aspect of ICC radiance. Avoidance is still strong but as Norellicus was saying you need that base HP before you can really do anything. 50k is needed in ICC, you can get away with high 40s, especially on the 1st four bosses but it really starts to matter after that point.


I do like that blog but having started reading it I can not stop and I have a lot to do in work :(

I have offtanked (I was on the boss for Rotface but I can't remember him hitting particularly hard anyway) everything in 10 man up to prof (haven't had to step in for anything else yet) with health in the late 40's. I must admit it became dicey at times in the 3rd phase of Prof as he gradually hits harder and faster so I took the first four stacks of the debuff that he puts on you and then went kitty to burn him down with the other DPS. My gear for tanking is getting better thankfully but as it is my offspec it can be a slow process at times :)
#1851 Mar 01 2010 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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KevMc wrote:
I do like that blog but having started reading it I can not stop and I have a lot to do in work :(


Kalon has ceased his blog, it is a great loss to the feral community. His insight will be missed.

As a side not I actually logged in tank gear and got to see what my wow-heroes score was for the first time in months.

I really should move more yellow sockets to blue gems but am lazy and waiting for new gear. ;)
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