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#15377 May 10 2012 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Hey protein, I have a sciencey question for you, since you're like a biologist or something. I've been doing research on alternative treatments for my ADHD. The main cause of ADHD is not having enough of dopamine, norepinephrine, and/or serotonin. Stimulants claim to increase the levels of dopamine and norepinephrine, but I've got a few aggravating side effects from the one I'm on, and they're expensive to boot. Some supplements that are supposed to help are 5-HTP, L-Glutamine and L-Tyrosine, so I'm going to try taking those this month (after I get them in the mail) instead of the Ritalin and see how it compares. I'm also considering trying L-DOPA at a later date, but I'm hesitant to try it right away since possible side effects of that particular chemical seem pretty nasty. I was just wondering if you had any opinion on whether taking those supplements might be effective in combating a deficiency in dopamine and norepinephrine.


That I don't know. I've never studied them directly, and even then it's more of an 'ask your doctor' thingy. You probably know more about that subject than I do. Smiley: wink

But if you're ever looking for a biomarker for cyanogenic exposure caused by eating too much cassava I may be able to help you. Smiley: grin



Edited, May 10th 2012 1:47pm by someproteinguy
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#15378 May 10 2012 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
So much talk about eating protein. Not sure if excited or just scared...

Smiley: eek
Thoroughly aroused?
#15379 May 10 2012 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
Okay, fair enough. If you're curious about educating yourself though, check this out. I understand most of it, although I've only read the first three on the next page, so far. I didn't figure that you would need 8 separate articles explaining how/why/why not Tyrosine could be used to treat ADHD.
#15380 May 10 2012 at 2:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
So much talk about eating protein. Not sure if excited or just scared...

Smiley: eek
Thoroughly aroused?


No, I don't want to get my hopes up.
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#15381 May 10 2012 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
Pigtails, what I'm saying is that you don't have a way to make yourself produce significant enough quantities to make a difference, especially at reasonable cost. When I lived in the US, I was majorly into this sort of stuff. Smiley: grin

Also, I'm way too excited that I scored, and well. I wish this could continue... way too sad it can't at the moment.

I have an exam in the morning. I shall go to sleep in a little bit.
#15382 May 10 2012 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
Well, I'm going to give it a shot for a month and see what happens. There were a few people on the products who commented that they had ADHD and that the supplements helped them.
#15383 May 10 2012 at 3:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Okay, fair enough. If you're curious about educating yourself though, check this out. I understand most of it, although I've only read the first three on the next page, so far. I didn't figure that you would need 8 separate articles explaining how/why/why not Tyrosine could be used to treat ADHD.


On the contrary, I usually prefer to read the original studies, rather than a synopsis. It nice to have a look at the scientists thinking at the time, and in what kind of context they think their work is relevant.

Anyway this line from the 1991 by Sandra Woods and Jerrold Meyer,

Quote:
For example, it would be important
to extend the results of this study and previous
observations, i.e. the potentiation of the discriminative
stimulus properties of systemic MPD by TYR, to include
the administation of oral TYR.


Did they ever follow up on that to your knowledge? Or should I dive back into pubmed? Smiley: lol

Edited, May 10th 2012 2:49pm by someproteinguy
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#15384 May 10 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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I made spinach soup, it tastes jummy.
#15385 May 10 2012 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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Do you eat it with eggs?
If not, ur doin' it wrong!
#15386 May 10 2012 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Did they ever follow up on that to your knowledge? Or should I dive back into pubmed? Smiley: lol


Go go google scholar...

Bleh nothing I could find, or anything recent anyway. Smiley: frown

Only this synopsis in a 2011 review that seems to cite a 1985 study (my bold):

Quote:
L-tyrosine, an essential precursor for dopamine
and norepinephrine, has been shown to be beneficial
for attention in adults with ADHD.81 Around
5-10 percent of ADHD cases respond to L-tyrosine
supplementation and are most likely those individuals
who have impairments in neurotransmitter
metabolism.
82 In one case study evaluating the
effect of tyrosine supplements on a patient with
ADHD and co-morbid phenylketonuria, tyrosine
was found to reduce ADHD symptoms, possibly
through the action of augmenting dopaminergic
activity.83


But I'm totally just shooting in the dark here...




Edited, May 10th 2012 3:05pm by someproteinguy
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#15387 May 10 2012 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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No eggs, I just made it because I still had spinach that I had to use for something.
I did put some bacon on top though and I may add some mozzarella or hüttenkäse next time.
#15388 May 10 2012 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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From a study of 16 individuals in 1987...

Quote:
Our first finding was that L-tyrosine was therapeutically
effective after 2 or more weeks. This delay is
similar to that found by Gelenberg et al. (9) in the
tyrosine treatment of depression and to that encountered
with the use of tricyclic antidepressants and
monoamine oxidase inhibitors in the treatment of
depression. The delay seen with antidepressants parallels
changes in receptor function and suggests that
analogous changes may have to occur before L-tyrosine
becomes therapeutically effective. In our previous
trials of d,l-phenylalanine (8), the pharmacological
response was immediate, so we did not predict the
delay in L-tyrosine response; therefore, a placebo response
is not likely, even in an open trial.
The second finding was that all the patients who
responded to L-tyrosine became tolerant to its therapeutic
effects. The clinical reports on the effects of
L-tyrosine in depression (9, 10) do not discuss the
length of time that the treatment remained effective or
whether tolerance developed.
In conclusion, the three precursor studies-L-dopa
(5), d,l-phenylalanine (8), and L-tyrosine-have not
elucidated the putative functional defect in attention
deficit disorder, residual type. Furthermore, none of
these substances appears to have any clinical utility in
the treatment of the disorder.


I'm learning... and +1ing... but learning too. Smiley: grin

Edited, May 10th 2012 3:15pm by someproteinguy
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#15389 May 10 2012 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Okay so...

TL:DR = they did a few studies back in the 80's and 90's that were mostly inconclusive or at least not very encouraging. So they determined these weren't the silver bullets to cure ADHD and people kind of stopped looking at it. However there seems to have varying, and sometimes promising, results in people from time to time for reasons that haven't been really explored very well.

Did I get that right? Smiley: confused

Edited, May 10th 2012 3:33pm by someproteinguy
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#15390 May 10 2012 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, that sounds about right. It's not like I'm thinking it's for sure going to work. Plus Tyrosine is only one piece of the puzzle. I just want to give it a shot, since it's far cheaper than my drugs, and I'm a lot less likely to have extreme nausea on these supplements.
#15391 May 10 2012 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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OMNOMNOM Chocolate -probably NSFW-
#15392 May 10 2012 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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I really, really hope those aren't supposed to be used.
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#15393 May 10 2012 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
That'd be a good way to give yourself an infection. Smiley: lol
#15394 May 10 2012 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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I'm pretty sure they're strictly meant for oral pleasure.
#15395 May 10 2012 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
I notice in that paper they also said :-

Quote:
Disadvantages to tyrosine supplementation for ADHD:

Beneficial responses of tyrosine for ADHD treatment are often short lived (and usually disappear within 2 to 4 weeks, as the body appears to "adapt" or tolerate the higher levels of tyrosine supplementation.



Not sure about over there but here in Australia Ritalin & Dexamphetamine are pretty much the only 2 treatments used for ADHD. Here they are fairly cheap (we pay $7 for 100 tabs from our wholsaler and charge about $20). The Strattera is a lot more expensive ($100+ a box).

The SSRI's are as a rule not used for ADHD as several studies have shown little/no benefit.

RareBeast

(your friendly neighbourhood pharmacist)
#15396 May 10 2012 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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mmmm
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#15397 May 10 2012 at 6:21 PM Rating: Good
Does that depend on dosage though? The first dosage I had of generic Ritalin (5mg 2x a day) was pretty cheap. I like it was something like $4 for a two week supply? The dosage we finally settled on is pretty high, 40mg 2x a day, but that's the first dosage where I noticed a difference. And I think he was wrong about Ritalin not having an issue with tolerance, because I've noticed that if I take it regularly for like a week or so, I start to lose the benefits. If I take a day or two off, then I can get the benefits again. A month supply of the meds cost me about $45, and my bupropion costs me about $15 a month.

One thing to keep in mind though is that their study was very small. Only 6 people IIRC. I fully recognize that it goes both ways though. With only six people in the study, it's just as likely that I won't get any benefit at all, will only have a limited time benefit, or have it actually work for me.
#15399 May 10 2012 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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Makes what so much easier? Smiley: dubious
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#15400 May 10 2012 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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Getting your credit card info?
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#15401 May 10 2012 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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Seems legit.
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