I've read through a bunch of topics here on the forums, including the FAQ, but I haven't seen a topic dedicated to this concept including heirloom items.
Right now my rogue is 35 (almost 36), and combat. Thanks to my main's raiding and having nothing to spend emblems on, I have both types of heirloom daggers, the emblem sword, and the shadowcraft shoulders. I am somewhat lazily saving up emblems now for the Hand of Justice trinket and the PvP Thrash Blade sword.
I know combat is the way to go until Mutilate becomes viable. I know I somewhat shot myself in the foot by buying the PvP dagger instead of the PvP sword, since now both sword spec or close quarters combat are fairly useless. But, that's how it went, and I'm still leveling quick.
Now, at level 50 I can go Mutilate. But I don't know if this is a good leveling spec or not. There are pros and cons, which I will list, but I'm wondering if anyone has experience leveling a rogue with heirloom items and which spec they found better. I'm bored at work, so there's my reasoning for asking :-P
Combat: 75% offhand damage instead of 50%
5% increased chance to hit
2.5% decreased chance to be parried/dodged
Faster energy regeneration
Decreased Sprint cooldown
Mutilate: 15% movement speed increase
5% crit rate
110 max energy instead of 100.
Stronger poisons (20% increase)
Faster combo point generation
Increased energy regeneration (but less than Combat)
Mutilate (stronger damage, more combo points than SS)
They're two very different styles. While mutilate really appeals to me, especially with the 15% increased speed, I think losing the 10+% damage I'd get from Precision/Combat Expertise might offset it. However, the middle row of Combat has been VERY lackluster; I find myself "wasting" points because I can't really use sword spec/cqc, so I'm just tossing points until I can hit the energy regen/damage increasers in the highest tiers.
So, advice? Anecdotes? Your own leveling experiences? Inquiring minds want to know!
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In my opinion it is pretty simple. 1vs1 Mutilate blows combat out of the water but with multiple mobs combat does alot better with its cooldowns. But things like Vanish and Sprint can save you from pretty much every sticky situation so I found Mutilate alot better for leveling.
This may be my personal opinion, but Mutilate really doesn't begin to shine until you can start stretching your reach into other talent tress. I was combat swords all the way to level 70 (and eventually 80) but played with mutilate often in-between. just because you CAN go Mut at 50 doesn't mean you should (or have to).
When you're level 60-70 and can start investing points into combat and/or subtlety, I would say to really give mutilate a good try. But until then I think that combat will make for quicker leveling/grinding as well as a more enjoyable experience.
EDIT: More stuff to add...
I'd also like to mention that run speed doesn't really make or break you while leveling, it can be nice but it is far from necessary. I particularly liked the expertise and hit from combat talents while leveling 1-60/70 mostly because those stats are somewhat difficult to come across on low level gear.
Edited, Mar 24th 2009 7:11am by Jonofthedead
When you're level 60-70 and can start investing points into combat and/or subtlety, I would say to really give mutilate a good try. But until then I think that combat will make for quicker leveling/grinding as well as a more enjoyable experience.
EDIT: More stuff to add...
I'd also like to mention that run speed doesn't really make or break you while leveling, it can be nice but it is far from necessary. I particularly liked the expertise and hit from combat talents while leveling 1-60/70 mostly because those stats are somewhat difficult to come across on low level gear.
Edited, Mar 24th 2009 7:11am by Jonofthedead
IIRC, with the mutilate leveling spec you take the DW specialization/precision/and CQC for the dagger damage. After that you go into sub and get RS. You end at level 80 with 3/3 points in Serrated Blades.
That is the mutilate spec I leveled with, and it worked great for me. Now, you do lose out on Blade Flurry, Combat Potency, and Killing Spree, but you drop thing pretty fast with mutilate. I take on three level 80 mobs without any serious issues, and I haven't really been playing my rouge. Thus, making my gear sub-par.
As for using heirlooms, I don't have any experience with them personally.
That is the mutilate spec I leveled with, and it worked great for me. Now, you do lose out on Blade Flurry, Combat Potency, and Killing Spree, but you drop thing pretty fast with mutilate. I take on three level 80 mobs without any serious issues, and I haven't really been playing my rouge. Thus, making my gear sub-par.
As for using heirlooms, I don't have any experience with them personally.
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Jonofthedead wrote:
This may be my personal opinion, but Mutilate really doesn't begin to shine until you can start stretching your reach into other talent tress. I was combat swords all the way to level 70 (and eventually 80) but played with mutilate often in-between. just because you CAN go Mut at 50 doesn't mean you should (or have to).
When you're level 60-70 and can start investing points into combat and/or subtlety, I would say to really give mutilate a good try. But until then I think that combat will make for quicker leveling/grinding as well as a more enjoyable experience.
EDIT: More stuff to add...
I'd also like to mention that run speed doesn't really make or break you while leveling, it can be nice but it is far from necessary. I particularly liked the expertise and hit from combat talents while leveling 1-60/70 mostly because those stats are somewhat difficult to come across on low level gear.
Edited, Mar 24th 2009 7:11am by Jonofthedead
When you're level 60-70 and can start investing points into combat and/or subtlety, I would say to really give mutilate a good try. But until then I think that combat will make for quicker leveling/grinding as well as a more enjoyable experience.
EDIT: More stuff to add...
I'd also like to mention that run speed doesn't really make or break you while leveling, it can be nice but it is far from necessary. I particularly liked the expertise and hit from combat talents while leveling 1-60/70 mostly because those stats are somewhat difficult to come across on low level gear.
Edited, Mar 24th 2009 7:11am by Jonofthedead
Exactly the type of opinion for which I was looking! Yes, I can see how Mutilate would be great if you could take some of the other talents (like Feyras mentioned), but a little lackluster until then. Sounds like I should get my main into some more heroics (groan) for shards to get that Thrash Blade, and stick with combat swords. I am only taking my character to level 65ish (her name is "Junkboxing"... guess what her mission in life is?), so if Mutilate doesn't really work until after that point I'll probably stick to Combat and put a speed enchant on my boots every few levels or something.
Quote:
In my opinion it is pretty simple. 1vs1 Mutilate blows combat out of the water but with multiple mobs combat does alot better with its cooldowns. But things like Vanish and Sprint can save you from pretty much every sticky situation so I found Mutilate alot better for leveling.
Metal, when did you switch to Mutilate?
Once you can get mutilate, it's hands-down the fastest leveling you can do. Rogues are too squishy to do multi-mob killing. Focus on your single-target burst.
With WP/WP, you'll zerg mobs down inside CS as mut.
With WP/WP, you'll zerg mobs down inside CS as mut.
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34 posts
I'm with a previous poster, 1v1 mut > 1v1 combat, multiple mobs, combat is going to win.
Personally, I switched to mutilate at 50 and never looked back. But part of the reason was because I was SO sick of spamming sinister strike. And it turned out to be a lot of fun to ambush > mut > evis pretty much everything to dead.
Your mileage may vary.
Personally, I switched to mutilate at 50 and never looked back. But part of the reason was because I was SO sick of spamming sinister strike. And it turned out to be a lot of fun to ambush > mut > evis pretty much everything to dead.
Your mileage may vary.
I'd advocate leveling combat daggers to 50+ then swapping to Mutilate. The heirloom dagger would serve both builds well enough. Also, get the shoulders. 10% + rested bonus = happy leveling.
Good luck!
Good luck!
I went 41/5/rest in sub while leveling through northrend, but then again I was pvping pretty hardcore during the first week of release =D
I prefer it simply because you have a hell of a lot more outs. Prep is usually the difference between soloing group quests and a graveyard run. Not to mention that Dirty Deeds> Close Quarters Combat and Precision combined. 11k Evis crits ftw!
I prefer it simply because you have a hell of a lot more outs. Prep is usually the difference between soloing group quests and a graveyard run. Not to mention that Dirty Deeds> Close Quarters Combat and Precision combined. 11k Evis crits ftw!
Muti's viability for leveling has a lot to do with how blizzard designs certain groups of mobs. In the old world, and a good many places in BC, forget about it. You have to pull 3 or 4 mobs and there's no way around it. Sap and blind will only keep you alive for so long. Now, in Northrend, I can't remember ever encountering a pull that I couldn't handle. Sure, part of this could be because I'm awesome. But I think mainly its because Blizzard is becoming increasingly cognizant of the many ways they have chosen to annoy us in the past, and are working to rectify their poor decisions. What this means for us is fewer pulls that are particularly difficult for those without much crowd control and aoe.
I'm looking forward to mounts that can swim.
I'm looking forward to mounts that can swim.
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