dk aggro, death strike, healaggro?Follow

hey

if i use the death strike as dk. will i get more aggro through the extra healing?
will i get damage aggro and heal aggro?
or ist the aggro from death strike and for example obliterate the same?

greetings

Self-healing does generate threat at the standard 0.5 per point actual healed rate as far as I recall. Paladin tanks often judge Light to help generate additional threat even though it's not a ton (and Pallys get massive multipliers for Holy damage/healing). Remember though that it's global threat and divided among all mobs involved in the encounter.

This would need to be tested to be 100% though. Regardless, it's a very small amount of threat generated and I doubt it's much of a factor. Even with the changes to DS coming in 3.1 I wouldn't bother concerning myself too much with healing threat factors.

hey,

thx for the answers... i have to say something.... i don´t ask for the current speccs. i specially ask for the upcoming 3.1 build.
i want to use it for a blood tanking build.
in the normal rotation, on the liveserver, i use heart strike and obliterate to get death runes.
with 3.1 the blood tree gets improved death strike. also the sigil of awareness increases the damage of death strike. and with the glyph of death strike, death strike will make more damge.

in the blood tank rotation, i can use death strike or obliterate to get death runes.
with the new damge of death strike i tested the rotation with death strike in place of obliterate on the level 83 boss dummys. the damage of obliterate was a little bit higher than the damage ob death strike. approximately 200-300 damge normal and 300-500 crit damge. but death strike has the advantage that i get self healing. the dps were the all about the same.

therefore the question is, will i get more aggro through the healing? what will make more aggro? obliterate with a litlle bit more damage or death strike through the healing?

deathstrike will have the advantage that i get extra healing. i think this will be nice for tanking. but the disadvantage, i think, is the runic power. with the glyph of death strike, the death strike will get more powerfull the more runic power i have. but i also have to use the runic power for rune strike. so i think that i will use the most runic power for rune strike, so i won´t have enough runic power to the the max. out of my death strike. and if i always have to get the max. on runic power to get the death strike more powerful, i won´t have runic power for the death coil. and if i don´t use the death coil, will i get enough dps and aggro?
will i geht more aggro with obliterate or with death strike. even if i have the "problems" with the runic power...

i heard from different people that death strike will replace obliterate in the blood tanking rotation. what do you think?

greetings

sure, but if a have 100% heals i get 5% more damage from blood gorges.

if i want to use ob, i have to set 13 points in frost. and so i lose points in my blood tree.... the question is... what is better?

i tested it again on the level 83 boss dummy.

i took the points out of blood gorges and set them into annihilation. so i lose 5% damge if i am over 75% heals but don´t lose my diseases.
( the 5% more damage will be nice to get morge aggro in the beginn )

i had 100 dps more with the ob rotation. but this could bacause my hs damge was higher... this could be because of the 3% more crit from annihilation, or crit luck....
on the other hand, my basic damage of ob was 100 higher than ds. but the crit damge of ds was much higher...
i got healing from ds up to 7500 crit. normal round about 2700... if this healing will also get aggro, ds will make realy more aggro than ob.

greetings

bottom line is oblit will offer more damage and threat, and most healers will keep you topped off so it wont matter. it has special uses.

I'm seriously expecting a DS nerf, and I approve of it.

I use DS to heal myself--the damage is a bonus. Oblit, on the other hand, was supposed to be a very damaging ability that consumed diseases as a result.

If it was me balancing the trees, I would design Blood to be more of a constant damage spec than a burst spec like Frost and, to a smaller extent, Unholy.

Instead of letting them get Annihilation, I would make it more point-intensive in Frost. To make up that damage difference, they would get a slightly more powerful Heart Strike (already more damaging than Blood Strike), a slightly more powerful Icy Touch/Plague Strike and then a more powerful Death Strike or an Oblit that consumes diseases.

I imagine the rotation would use Death Strike one round then Oblit the next, to reapply diseases right after. Each standard ability would do more damage, without the kind of spike you get in Frost from using 1-3 Oblits in a rotation, or Scourge Strike in Unholy.

Seems logical to me, though possibly making it less powerful in PvP. But, on the other hand, they still get DRW for burst damage...

Either way, I firmly believe Death Strike damage should be < Oblit damage. Oblit naturally has a negative side effect. Death Strike, on the other hand, naturally has a positive one. To let talents make DS do more damage, making its positive side-effect better is nonsensical to me.

Personally, I just want them to change Vampiric Blood to something mitigation-based. Blood is already < the other two specs for tanking because of AoE threat issues and lack of mitigation. Hopefully, the changes to BB will resolve the first. Now we just need to change the latter.

i think with 3.1 blood will be very stong. for example frost, lichborne nerf, ua is also not as strong as before. unholy, bone shild dc up to 2 min, and with the changing of blade barrier you will faste loose the shields.
ok, blood got the cd on wotn. but 15 sek is ok... it is still strong. and you got extra str and sta.
i thing with patch 3.1. blood < the other specs

on the other hand, i am not interessting in aoe builds. i want high aggro and a chance of surviving.
i want to tank the big boss^^

the only time a DK should have single target aggro issues (boss issues) is when there's a damage buff that the tank doesnt get, such as sparks on maly. There have been times where our enh shaman will get in 2 sparks then all the sudden i'll be like "um can somebody BoSalv the shammy" but other than that it doesnt matter too much. (assuming you dont gear like an idiot).

on the flip side, frost and UH have great aoe while blood doesnt get a lot to make its aoe worthwhile in my opinion. on 1-2 mobs its great because of HS's cleave effect, and I think its a great OT spec, but for progression MT its not too hot

...

What?

Well, Blood and Frost are roughly equal in single target aggro. Blood is slightly higher, but not by enough it ever makes a difference. The fact that it has essentially no mitigation makes it inferior to Frost for single target tanking.

Unholy is higher than Frost, slightly. But, it has less spike threat and is inferior in single-target threat.

As far as mitigation goes, Unholy and Frost are roughly equal.

Frost has +3% dodge over Unholy, plus UA (which is getting better next patch, from what I understand). It also gets some nice magic mitigation through Acclimation and Frost Aura. Ironically, Frost has better AoE mitigation, because UA's duration doesn't lower from being hit.

Unholy gets Bone Shield, which rocks (and, with high mitigation, can last a nice long time). They also get to boost their AMS and get AMZ. If necessary, their perma ghoul can offtank one mob (though it isn't exactly efficient and you will probably never have to do it).

And one last problem with Blood is that it gets worse and worse the closer your raid gets to farming an instance. It is highly reaction based (abilities produce healing, your "tanking" talent is essentially a Warrior's Last Stand with lower health returned but a + to healing). Once your and your healer's gear gets better, you will be falling into low health numbers less frequently, and Vampiric Blood will become useless (and a Blood DpS can provide Mark of Blood). Furthermore, the bosses will go down faster, so that your abilities are even less needed because your healer will never go OOM, and should be able to keep you topped easier.

Three things are going to have to happen to make Blood a truly viable raid alternative (without being a really good, in which case you could probably still rock the other two better).

1. It needs to produce threat equal to a heal, even if the heal doesn't go off (mostly for the next point, but slightly for a risk in single target threat as other classes get better DpS).
2. It needs some kind of AoE threat--perhaps causing full heal threat to every target when in Frost Spec (with the above change). (As it is, heals count for Aggro in a formula like (Heal/2)/Number of targets, to each mob. Let it cause the Heal threat to each target, and you are in business. Hell, it may just be enough, if Death Strike stays at its current power, to let it cause half threat to each target.
3. Less important (not to say that it isn't), Vampiric Blood needs to change to something mitigation based. Instead of an addition to healing, it should be 15% health and 10% lower damage, or something. This way, it still has the functionality of giving the healers an extra second to save you, but it can still be used for the mitigation whenever the CD goes up.

Until then, Blood is going to be a spec that requires gear superior to Frost and Unholy, just to be as good as them. And, even then, it will require highly skilled healers and DK.

Both.

The only thing changing with Blood in 3.1 is that Death Strike will do more damage, and thus produce more aggro. But, single target threat generation was never an issue with Blood, due to Obliterate and Heart Strike.

It isn't that it CANNOT be good. Blood is fine as a spec. It is just noticeably inferior to the other two. And, probably inferior to all other tanks except the Druid on AoE threat generation.

But, test away. That is an important part of learning your class (and the learning NEVER stops, so this isn't to say you are a bad player. The best of the best are still always learning). But, I suggest not getting your hopes up.

That way, you will either be pleasantly surprised or neutral, but not disappointed.

Yes. It increases all threat you cause; this includes healing threat.

Whoa there, sonny.

He never said he tanks in Blood Presence. He said his healers prefer Blood SPEC over Frost. "Imp Blood Presence" is obviously Blood Aura.