At least paladin tanking. I run on raids as ret or holy. And while I freely admit that healing is hilariously easy in its current state with the crazy mana; followed by perhaps the easiest dps spec ever ret...well except for perhaps elemental shaman. Tanking just seems easy beyond belief.
I gemmed and enchanted up my tanking gear that I had gotten since the expac, and with not tanking in perhaps six or so months tanked a cot mount run. I admit heroics are not hard, but come on. With 2 of the 3 dps being guild tanks along to jeer at me and give me "helpful" advice attempting to pull threat the entire run it still had to be the easiest thing I have ever done. Even easier than ret dps.
I know they put a lot of work into tanking being more fun, but come on.
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Could it be that its tanking thats too easy?Follow
I'm inclined to agree, actually. As a paladin who was tanking pre-TBC (and prot became a viable spec), I remember the challenge that tanking used to be; a challenge I relished. Now, the number of pala tanks is going up, as my warrior friends are turning round to me and saying it's easier to tank with their pala alt than it is with their prot warrior main.
So yeah, it is getting easier.
So yeah, it is getting easier.
I have gotten to the point on a lot of heroic dungeons that have undead (H DTK for example) where I will open up with AS/HS/Consecrate/HoR/JoV/SoR/Holy Wrath and then sit there auto-attacking until the DPS kills everything on trash pulls. I have so much threat and mitigation after about 7 initial moves that I really don't have to do anything else on the trash fights.
The only exception to this is if I have my guild's best mage with me. He puts out about 4.25k dps even in heroic 5-mans, so I have to put in a few more threat moves to make sure he doesn't get aggro.
So yeah, if you don't have a brain-fart and forget to put RF up, and your opening rotation builds a ton of up-front threat on multiple targets, it is pretty easy. I usually am not THAT lazy and will keep up the standard 9/6/9 rotation, but if we are doing an easy heroic and I am eating a sandwich (CapJack's sandwich?), then I do slack off on occasion.
The only exception to this is if I have my guild's best mage with me. He puts out about 4.25k dps even in heroic 5-mans, so I have to put in a few more threat moves to make sure he doesn't get aggro.
So yeah, if you don't have a brain-fart and forget to put RF up, and your opening rotation builds a ton of up-front threat on multiple targets, it is pretty easy. I usually am not THAT lazy and will keep up the standard 9/6/9 rotation, but if we are doing an easy heroic and I am eating a sandwich (CapJack's sandwich?), then I do slack off on occasion.
jeromesimina wrote:
then I do slack off on occasion.
Slave Pens wrote:
Too soon! You're slacking off too soon!
Sorry, I couldn't resist >.>
Paladin tanking has always been pretty simple. Now content is simple.
Nothing hits super hard, if you are undergeared perhaps Patchwerk, Malygos and Sarth with 2 or 3 drakes up. So only like 3 bosses out of 17 that are somewhat hard, and only one you can'treally outgear being 3d (though more gear = more easy). Then there is trash, trash in wotlk is pretty much not going to wipe a raid unless they do something really really reallly wrong.
Nothing hits super hard, if you are undergeared perhaps Patchwerk, Malygos and Sarth with 2 or 3 drakes up. So only like 3 bosses out of 17 that are somewhat hard, and only one you can'treally outgear being 3d (though more gear = more easy). Then there is trash, trash in wotlk is pretty much not going to wipe a raid unless they do something really really reallly wrong.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Tanking shouldn't be any more difficult than dps. A good dps or healer would be able to pick up tanking quite easily. Pallies have it easier than other tanking classes in the AoE threat department, which very much plays into the prevalent style of play adopted by players in WotLK. Every tanking class has something they have to time/watch for/whatever...with pallies it's simply refreshing Holy Shield every time it's off cooldown. After that, it's formulaic...an attentive pally tank with a standard rotation and adequate gear isn't going to have a hard time with much of anything.
Having said that, if you haven't got your various "Hand of..." spells bound in such a way that you have easy access to them, you can't for the life of you remember the last time you used Divine Intervention, and "Lay on Hands" only makes you think about the thing your catholic buddy told you would make you go blind, the best you'll ever be is a mediocre pally tank.
Any pally can work a rotation and do just fine when everything is working as planned. It's when things go wrong and you can make timely use of your extended bag of tricks that you cross over from decent tank to good tank.
Not only that, but Hand of Protection is an awesome way to put the Vigilance-using taunt-spamming wanna-be main tank warrior in his place.
:P
Having said that, if you haven't got your various "Hand of..." spells bound in such a way that you have easy access to them, you can't for the life of you remember the last time you used Divine Intervention, and "Lay on Hands" only makes you think about the thing your catholic buddy told you would make you go blind, the best you'll ever be is a mediocre pally tank.
Any pally can work a rotation and do just fine when everything is working as planned. It's when things go wrong and you can make timely use of your extended bag of tricks that you cross over from decent tank to good tank.
Not only that, but Hand of Protection is an awesome way to put the Vigilance-using taunt-spamming wanna-be main tank warrior in his place.
:P
holding threat is only easy untill everyones as geared as you are and knows wtf their doing, we have probly 20+ people in guild that can hold over 2500 dps in 5 mans, pretty challenging to hold threat over some of them without going oom, just adds more fun though
on a side note i single tanked 25 man patchwerk for 40% (after all melee were dead)...that was rather fun, almost pulled off the kill with that blinding show of awesome...lol
cant wait till ulduar comes out. and to all the people ******** about how easy raids are now...raids in bc werent much harder, if at all, unless you are mentally retarded and cant follow simple instructions
and remember, there are a ton more prot pallies out there now since tanking has become so easy for every class...but still very few of them know wtf they are doing
and how does divine intervention make you a better tank? ive pulled off countless raid boss kills with no healers up for atleast the last 20%, and countless 5 man heroic boss kills with healers going down right away due to them not paying attention, i fight to the end and leave it up to a dps to di if i go down, di'ing and whipeing a group on a whim is a copout and imo makes you a worse tank for not trying something that was most likely do'able given the right communication with your group, that and i just love not letting people roll on loot that like to yell "whipe it!" in vent and suicide just to watch us kill the boss. Maybe i just know what im doing enough to pull us out of a bad situation, or maybe i just get lucky, either way i would definately lose respect for any tank that decides to whipe the group because things arent going exactly as planned, all it takes atleast 80% of the time is communication
Edited, Mar 28th 2009 2:42am by OMGEverythingIsTaken
on a side note i single tanked 25 man patchwerk for 40% (after all melee were dead)...that was rather fun, almost pulled off the kill with that blinding show of awesome...lol
cant wait till ulduar comes out. and to all the people ******** about how easy raids are now...raids in bc werent much harder, if at all, unless you are mentally retarded and cant follow simple instructions
and remember, there are a ton more prot pallies out there now since tanking has become so easy for every class...but still very few of them know wtf they are doing
and how does divine intervention make you a better tank? ive pulled off countless raid boss kills with no healers up for atleast the last 20%, and countless 5 man heroic boss kills with healers going down right away due to them not paying attention, i fight to the end and leave it up to a dps to di if i go down, di'ing and whipeing a group on a whim is a copout and imo makes you a worse tank for not trying something that was most likely do'able given the right communication with your group, that and i just love not letting people roll on loot that like to yell "whipe it!" in vent and suicide just to watch us kill the boss. Maybe i just know what im doing enough to pull us out of a bad situation, or maybe i just get lucky, either way i would definately lose respect for any tank that decides to whipe the group because things arent going exactly as planned, all it takes atleast 80% of the time is communication
Edited, Mar 28th 2009 2:42am by OMGEverythingIsTaken
OMGEverythingIsTaken wrote:
and how does divine intervention make you a better tank?
Using it on a whim does not make you a better tank. Knowing when to use it, and swallowing your pride to actually do so, does.
I could probably tell you just as many stories as you can tell me of amazing kills against the odds, but there are still times when the odds are stack WAY too heavily against you, and a DI is much better then taking your pride with you to a larger repair bill.
Any Paly who refuses to use DI, or uses it inappropriately, fails imo. Tanks included.
Quote:
Using it on a whim does not make you a better tank. Knowing when to use it, and swallowing your pride to actually do so, does.
/agree. a tank usually has a good grasp of the current situation. you can read when things are going to go downhill. you see which of your healers are out of play, you see how many dps bit the dust, you see if you have any OTs left up. you can stand there and burn CDs and delay the inevitable, but sometimes your time is better spent starting fresh.
learning(timing) Grobbulus was a nice example of this. you can DI now or spend the next 20mins rezzing noobs from the frogger slimes.
i agree that di'ing is the right thing to do in impossible situations (like my patchwerk situation, but everyone wanted me to stay up so i didnt) but i was more trying to point out that tanks can do some pretty impossible seeming things, and dont just whipe a group because a couple dps went down, or a healer went down, and yes i come across people that attempt that all the time because people encourage it but the people reading usually dont read between the lines, and seeing them cry that they dont get to roll on something is funny, just communicate with your group, assess your situation, and make a decision, dont just think "ZOMG THIS ISNT GOING TO WORK ZOMG" and di, uneeded repair bills **** me off and im sure alot of other people feel the same way
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