I have only just picked up the fourth piece for the 4 set bonus. One question...that Life Tap Spirit buff basically gives me 300 extra SP for 10 seconds. Should I actually alter my rotation to:
CoA, Corr, Immo, LT, CB, Conflag, Incin
I think that takes the fullest advantage of the bonus. I haven't had chance to test this on Patch yet, but what you think?
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Destro Rotation with set bonusFollow
lifetap, even with the set bonus, is always a dps decrease so you want to do it as little as possible, the set bonus just simply means that if you double lifetap you get an additional 1000-ish mana (after BoK), in terms of adjusting your rotation... don't... the only change you might want to make is lifetapping JUST before the boss is engaged so you have some additional SP at the start.
So the increase in SP I get (it's 700 not 300) doesn't make up for that???
I don't know why I get 700 extra SP, I thought it was talented, but I can't find the talent now.
I need to look into this more, but I go from completely unbuffed 1945 SP to 2700 SP when I LT.
Frankly, it's immense!
I don't know why I get 700 extra SP, I thought it was talented, but I can't find the talent now.
I need to look into this more, but I go from completely unbuffed 1945 SP to 2700 SP when I LT.
Frankly, it's immense!
it's not 700, you get 300 spirit, which, with talented fel armor and BoK, is around 130 spell power, so you definately don't get 700 from lifetapping. what's probably happening is you have a trinket that is simply by coincidence proccing when you cast lifetap
Dammit.
Spot on, Jen. Dying Curse procced.
How the hell did I miss that?? Ok, ***** LT.
Respeccing affliction.
Spot on, Jen. Dying Curse procced.
How the hell did I miss that?? Ok, ***** LT.
Respeccing affliction.
The main use i get out of my set bonus is to actually reduce the amount of times i tap during boss fights.
Usually i aim to wait for the dying second/s of the 300 spirit buff before i tap again, that way i have 8 or 9 seconds of the ~120 spellpower per tap. For real maximisation you only want one unbuffed tap per bossfight, and to have only a little amount of mana left at the end. (only ever been close to this on patch though)
Usually i aim to wait for the dying second/s of the 300 spirit buff before i tap again, that way i have 8 or 9 seconds of the ~120 spellpower per tap. For real maximisation you only want one unbuffed tap per bossfight, and to have only a little amount of mana left at the end. (only ever been close to this on patch though)
23 posts
You have to take note for a deep destro spec lock .. soulfire is impt to the rotation. !!
spec into backdraft
rotation shld be CoE or CoA -> corruption -> chaos bolt -> immolate -> conflagrate -> incin ( until immolate is about to end ) -> conflagrate -> soulfire -> chaos bolt
this shld give u a decent dps ard 4k ++ with proper gear
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 12:04am by teamilk
spec into backdraft
rotation shld be CoE or CoA -> corruption -> chaos bolt -> immolate -> conflagrate -> incin ( until immolate is about to end ) -> conflagrate -> soulfire -> chaos bolt
this shld give u a decent dps ard 4k ++ with proper gear
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 12:04am by teamilk
Oh dear me, never use Soulfire its terrible.
EDIT: Before 3.1 that is.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 12:46am by seedofagony
EDIT: Before 3.1 that is.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 12:46am by seedofagony
23 posts
why is it terrible ?? in the next patch i wont use it anymore but its valuable dps now
teamilk wrote:
why is it terrible ?? in the next patch i wont use it anymore but its valuable dps now
Its horrible DPSC the only people who should be using it will be demo locks in 3.1 and that is only because they proc a 60% reduced cast time on it after a sbolt. I want to know who told you it was a DPS increase because they were wrong.
the damage per second cast (DPSC) of soulfire currently is terrible. even with backdraft.
here's some simply maths
you do a 5k hit soulfire for a 4second cast, so 1250 dpsc
you do a 4k hit incinerate for a 2.25 sec cast 1778 dpsc
with 30% increased casting speed
4seconds goes to 2.8, so soulfire is now 1786 dpsc
2.25 goes to 1.58, so incinerate is now 2531 dpsc
as you can see, soulfire SUCKS BIG FAT DONKEY BALLS
come next patch, if you go deep demonology for the decimation talent, ONLY then is soulfire worth casting in pve, and then only when the target is below 35% health.
here's some simply maths
you do a 5k hit soulfire for a 4second cast, so 1250 dpsc
you do a 4k hit incinerate for a 2.25 sec cast 1778 dpsc
with 30% increased casting speed
4seconds goes to 2.8, so soulfire is now 1786 dpsc
2.25 goes to 1.58, so incinerate is now 2531 dpsc
as you can see, soulfire SUCKS BIG FAT DONKEY BALLS
come next patch, if you go deep demonology for the decimation talent, ONLY then is soulfire worth casting in pve, and then only when the target is below 35% health.
Jenovaomega wrote:
you do a 5k hit soulfire for a 4second cast, so 1250 dpsc
you do a 4k hit incinerate for a 2.25 sec cast 1778 dpsc
with 30% increased casting speed
4seconds goes to 2.8, so soulfire is now 1786 dpsc
2.25 goes to 1.58, so incinerate is now 2531 dpsc
I can see why you did the calculation to show he was wrong, but my question is who with half a brain would think backdraft makes soul fire good. I mean you just look at it as a 30% increase to the damage of the DPSC of the spell, not exactly right but good enough for now. Given that if a spell has greater DPSC before back draft it still will after backdraft. Assuming no ridiculous haste stacking where your talking casting incinerate in under 1 sec, the minimum GCD, a feat which I am fairly confident is impossible with the current gear set. I mean maybe if you talk about procs, bloodlust, and potion but other then that not happening.
'tis indeed impossible with current gear. I've got.. arguably the most haste out of any warlock in the game (still missing.. 1 major haste upgrade on my bracers, otherwise all small changes).. with spell stone i hit 765 haste rating, so like almost 23% haste from gear and with backdraft + 3% raid haste buff from a retadin, my incinerates only get as low as almost 1.2sec casts.. granted with heroism they go down to almost 0.8sec cast but even then it's more beneficial to cast incinerate than soulfire. and no idea why anyone would be stupid enough to cast soulfire during those times.. but there are plenty of people stupid enough to do so
23 posts
if u were to count ... it only gives u 30% haste for the next 3 destruction spell .. and if u look at the rotation im doing:
immolate -> conflagrate ( brackdraft procs ) -> incin ( where 3 of the incin will have backdraft procs )--> conflagrate( when immolates is running out and BACKDRAFT procs again) --- > soulfire( will benifit from backdraft) --> choasbolt( also benifit from backdraft) ----> refresh dots ( mainly corruption and CoA, this shld give u enough time for conflagrate to cd)---> immolate ( also benifit from backdraft )--> rinse and repeat
lets say u dont use soulfire .. i assume ur rotation will be immolate --> conflagrate ( brackdraft procs ) -> incin ( where 3 of the incin will have backdraft procs ) ---> conflagrate( backdraft proc ) ----> and then ?? ??
as u can see my rotation with soulfire makes use of the backdraft procs fully ... rather than ur immolate and incin logic !!
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 4:12am by teamilk
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 4:17am by teamilk
immolate -> conflagrate ( brackdraft procs ) -> incin ( where 3 of the incin will have backdraft procs )--> conflagrate( when immolates is running out and BACKDRAFT procs again) --- > soulfire( will benifit from backdraft) --> choasbolt( also benifit from backdraft) ----> refresh dots ( mainly corruption and CoA, this shld give u enough time for conflagrate to cd)---> immolate ( also benifit from backdraft )--> rinse and repeat
lets say u dont use soulfire .. i assume ur rotation will be immolate --> conflagrate ( brackdraft procs ) -> incin ( where 3 of the incin will have backdraft procs ) ---> conflagrate( backdraft proc ) ----> and then ?? ??
as u can see my rotation with soulfire makes use of the backdraft procs fully ... rather than ur immolate and incin logic !!
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 4:12am by teamilk
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 4:17am by teamilk
immolate has a MUCH larger dpsc than soulfire. it's ALWAYS better to cast than soulfire and soulfire should NEVER be cast. honestly you know NOTHING about spell rotations, leave it to us who do.
just to let you know, even if you're casting a 0.5second immolate, it's more beneficial than a soulfire due to how insanely large the DPSC of immolate is.
your 'rotation' should be
immolate EVERY time it falls off (so every 15seconds. this is your MAIN priority spell). conflagorate EVERY time it's off cooldown, Chaosbolt whenever it's off cooldown (but immolate and conflagorate have priority over this). renew CoA whenever it drops off and only cast corruption whenever molton core wears off. cast incinerate otherwise as your filler and NEVER cast soulfire. it is a MASSIVE waste of time and soulshards.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 7:45am by Jenovaomega
just to let you know, even if you're casting a 0.5second immolate, it's more beneficial than a soulfire due to how insanely large the DPSC of immolate is.
your 'rotation' should be
immolate EVERY time it falls off (so every 15seconds. this is your MAIN priority spell). conflagorate EVERY time it's off cooldown, Chaosbolt whenever it's off cooldown (but immolate and conflagorate have priority over this). renew CoA whenever it drops off and only cast corruption whenever molton core wears off. cast incinerate otherwise as your filler and NEVER cast soulfire. it is a MASSIVE waste of time and soulshards.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 7:45am by Jenovaomega
teamilk wrote:
if u were to count ... it only gives u 30% haste for the next 3 destruction spell .. and if u look at the rotation im doing:
immolate -> conflagrate ( brackdraft procs ) -> incin ( where 3 of the incin will have backdraft procs )--> conflagrate( when immolates is running out and BACKDRAFT procs again) --- > soulfire( will benifit from backdraft) --> choasbolt( also benifit from backdraft) ----> refresh dots ( mainly corruption and CoA, this shld give u enough time for conflagrate to cd)---> immolate ( also benifit from backdraft )--> rinse and repeat
lets say u dont use soulfire .. i assume ur rotation will be immolate --> conflagrate ( brackdraft procs ) -> incin ( where 3 of the incin will have backdraft procs ) ---> conflagrate( backdraft proc ) ----> and then ?? ??
as u can see my rotation with soulfire makes use of the backdraft procs fully ... rather than ur immolate and incin logic !!
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 4:12am by teamilk
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 4:17am by teamilk
immolate -> conflagrate ( brackdraft procs ) -> incin ( where 3 of the incin will have backdraft procs )--> conflagrate( when immolates is running out and BACKDRAFT procs again) --- > soulfire( will benifit from backdraft) --> choasbolt( also benifit from backdraft) ----> refresh dots ( mainly corruption and CoA, this shld give u enough time for conflagrate to cd)---> immolate ( also benifit from backdraft )--> rinse and repeat
lets say u dont use soulfire .. i assume ur rotation will be immolate --> conflagrate ( brackdraft procs ) -> incin ( where 3 of the incin will have backdraft procs ) ---> conflagrate( backdraft proc ) ----> and then ?? ??
as u can see my rotation with soulfire makes use of the backdraft procs fully ... rather than ur immolate and incin logic !!
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 4:12am by teamilk
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 4:17am by teamilk
Given that incinterate has roughly 41% more DPSC then soul fire 2531 compared 1786. Given that you would have to cast immolate in 1/1.41 seconds to make it worth casting. That translates to casting it in roughly .71 seconds. We see that even Jeno with the super amount of haste can only get down to a .8 sec cast with a fairly optimal situation. The haste simply isn't there right now. For immolate the DPSC is just astromical and the amount of haste even with optimal gear, procs, and buffs since for that spell you are talking a whopping like 6k DPSC or more, it is never worth dropping. Basically it can only beat incinerate in the most ridiculous of situations, and that is just barely, and it can never beat immolate.
So again whoever told you to cast soul fire in any current spec is wrong, and if its your own opinion facts simply do not back it up. Given that can you see why you don't cast soul fire.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2009 10:42pm by Twirdman
23 posts
Taken from a part in "http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t38033-mage_equivalent_destruction_warlock/"
Should I cast Soul Fire during Backdraft?
In a theoretical world: Yes.
In a real raid: No. Casting SF during BD will give an overall increase in DPS but will burn through your shards like golden rain does to snow. It's just not viable to dig through 20+ shards on one boss, especially as it can be hard between some bosses to get them back (and then I haven't even mentioned if you happen to wipe!). A viable choice here is cast it only during BD+Bloodlust/Heroism to maximize shorter cast time.
It is an increase in dps as said on elitistjerks ...
come on everyone has their own kind of rotation .. if i can do an average of 4.5k - 5k dps on bosses i dont think my rotation has any problem.
You have your own way of doing your own rotation i repect you, but i beleve you also have to respect other ppl suggesting their own method.
Should I cast Soul Fire during Backdraft?
In a theoretical world: Yes.
In a real raid: No. Casting SF during BD will give an overall increase in DPS but will burn through your shards like golden rain does to snow. It's just not viable to dig through 20+ shards on one boss, especially as it can be hard between some bosses to get them back (and then I haven't even mentioned if you happen to wipe!). A viable choice here is cast it only during BD+Bloodlust/Heroism to maximize shorter cast time.
It is an increase in dps as said on elitistjerks ...
come on everyone has their own kind of rotation .. if i can do an average of 4.5k - 5k dps on bosses i dont think my rotation has any problem.
You have your own way of doing your own rotation i repect you, but i beleve you also have to respect other ppl suggesting their own method.
teamilk wrote:
Taken from a part in "http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t38033-mage_equivalent_destruction_warlock/"
Should I cast Soul Fire during Backdraft?
In a theoretical world: Yes.
In a real raid: No. Casting SF during BD will give an overall increase in DPS but will burn through your shards like golden rain does to snow. It's just not viable to dig through 20+ shards on one boss, especially as it can be hard between some bosses to get them back (and then I haven't even mentioned if you happen to wipe!). A viable choice here is cast it only during BD+Bloodlust/Heroism to maximize shorter cast time.
It is an increase in dps as said on elitistjerks ...
come on everyone has their own kind of rotation .. if i can do an average of 4.5k - 5k dps on bosses i dont think my rotation has any problem.
You have your own way of doing your own rotation i repect you, but i beleve you also have to respect other ppl suggesting their own method.
Should I cast Soul Fire during Backdraft?
In a theoretical world: Yes.
In a real raid: No. Casting SF during BD will give an overall increase in DPS but will burn through your shards like golden rain does to snow. It's just not viable to dig through 20+ shards on one boss, especially as it can be hard between some bosses to get them back (and then I haven't even mentioned if you happen to wipe!). A viable choice here is cast it only during BD+Bloodlust/Heroism to maximize shorter cast time.
It is an increase in dps as said on elitistjerks ...
come on everyone has their own kind of rotation .. if i can do an average of 4.5k - 5k dps on bosses i dont think my rotation has any problem.
You have your own way of doing your own rotation i repect you, but i beleve you also have to respect other ppl suggesting their own method.
Really I don't see how that is even possible since the math isn't showing it. I mean unless you can actually show me the page that its own to check for myself since I don't feel like digging through the 33 pages I will contend that it is possible but will hold back actually believing it.
23 posts
i not proving u wrong .. what i am saying is it works for me
teamilk wrote:
i not proving u wrong .. what i am saying is it works for me
There are too problems with this statement the first horrible English, and the second, which is far more important to the discussion at hand and that is we are talking about optimization. Given that there is a clear right and wrong answer and given both me and Jenova have provided reason to believe both our points you either have to concede you are wrong or give reason to believe it.
Now you can say it works for you and I respect that, I have often used less then optimal specs since I didn't want to use the optimal at the time, but that is not what you said when you started. You said you should use it not it works for me, in fact your exact words were.
teamilk wrote:
You have to take note for a deep destro spec lock .. soulfire is impt to the rotation. !!
spec into backdraft
rotation shld be CoE or CoA -> corruption -> chaos bolt -> immolate -> conflagrate -> incin ( until immolate is about to end ) -> conflagrate -> soulfire -> chaos bolt
this shld give u a decent dps ard 4k ++ with proper gear
spec into backdraft
rotation shld be CoE or CoA -> corruption -> chaos bolt -> immolate -> conflagrate -> incin ( until immolate is about to end ) -> conflagrate -> soulfire -> chaos bolt
this shld give u a decent dps ard 4k ++ with proper gear
23 posts
In both ways what i think soulfire improved my dps and i am suggesting it to u guys in the forum. I seriously dun care if my english suck. There are no requirement for users to have good english than he is able to post. I havent so far read on any post saying how bad soulfire brings the overall dps down. So unless u prove it with edvidence.
so far those maths calculations are just written in this forum under your name. i dont see major forums putting soulfire down other than saying its a great waste of shards. I tested it out and like what elitistjerks said in the forum, it improves overall dps.
You may be right but that doesnt mean i am wrong. It improved my dps when i used it.
so far those maths calculations are just written in this forum under your name. i dont see major forums putting soulfire down other than saying its a great waste of shards. I tested it out and like what elitistjerks said in the forum, it improves overall dps.
You may be right but that doesnt mean i am wrong. It improved my dps when i used it.
teamilk wrote:
In both ways what i think soulfire improved my dps and i am suggesting it to u guys in the forum. I seriously dun care if my english suck. There are no requirement for users to have good english than he is able to post. I havent so far read on any post saying how bad soulfire brings the overall dps down. So unless u prove it with edvidence.
so far those maths calculations are just written in this forum under your name. i dont see major forums putting soulfire down other than saying its a great waste of shards. I tested it out and like what elitistjerks said in the forum, it improves overall dps.
You may be right but that doesnt mean i am wrong. It improved my dps when i used it.
so far those maths calculations are just written in this forum under your name. i dont see major forums putting soulfire down other than saying its a great waste of shards. I tested it out and like what elitistjerks said in the forum, it improves overall dps.
You may be right but that doesnt mean i am wrong. It improved my dps when i used it.
That is the a fallacy in reasoning you are believing based on authority for elitist jerk. The anecdotal evidence is somewhat stronger but still weak. The math on the other hand is something anyone can check and thus the best way of proving your argument. Also the elitist jerk argument is really bad since you haven't actually shown it to me you simply say it exist somewhere in that 33 page forum post.
23 posts
got to (http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t38033-mage_equivalent_destruction_warlock/)
I checked that link, most people were against using soulfire during backdraft for the EXACT same reason as me. it's got a lower DPSC than incinerate. oh and I used to be a regular poster on elitiest jerks (account has gone wierd.. won't log me in), and if you were to check through my past posts on here you'll find i'm a regular theorcrafter to the same level as that on elitiest jerks, trust me. you ARE wrong... but you also seem to suck at maths and are unwilling to see reason.. so good luck with your pathetic DPS
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